GF_of_Boxing

Robinson, Langford, Armstrong, Ali, and Galaxy

In fighting is an art and science. Nobody did it better than Julio Caesar Chavez, Joe Frazier, and Mike Tyson ( when he was with Cus and Rooney). The head movement, cutting the ring off, coming in with the jab and working the body and head. Throwing inside combinations. That's in fighting. Brawling is nothing but uncontrolled, roughhousing tactics, not pretty but sometimes it get the job done. The best two fighter I can think of off that were great at it was Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano. Great power in both hands, relentless, and just mauled you until you incinerated.

Sam Langford 2548 rounds

I thought it was a combination of both. Floyd Sr. tried to train him like he was Floyd Jr. Hatton been in the game too long to try to change tactics like that with Pacman style of fighting. The style that brought Hatton to the dance would of gave him a much better shot at Pacman. He's naturally the bigger guy, fights great on the inside which would of neutralize Manny's high power offense. Plus leaning and pound the body would of slowed Pacman down. Even though I picked Pacman to beat Hatton but not like the way he did... Floyd Sr. never really cared about Hatton. He didn't take his training or the fight seriously. Plus he didn't even show up until almost an hour before the fight even started. And to make matters worse wehre was FLoyd Sr. after Hatton was knocked out? I'm not taking nothing away form Floyd Sr. I think he is a good trainer but for Hatton he seemed like he didn't care.

No what its is he has too much muscle. It takes alot of oxygen to feed those muscles. Thats why its very rare you see a real muscular fighter who is champion. They maybe cut and lean with smooth muscles but not ripped. The only way it would work if you start out young and work your way up. Look in the past champions that was ripped. For example look at Evander Holyfield. If you look at Evander's past fights especially at haeavyweight you would see that Evander fights in spurts. He'll throw combinations for about 20-30 seconds then he would bounce and rest and go back to the jab or he'll cover up and let the oppponent hit him. What about Shannon Briggs? If it was a 3 round fight he would still be undefeated. He blames it on his asthma, but its not. I have asthma and I ran track and was in the Army. As long its control he'll be fine. It's those excessive muscles thats slowing him down and using up all of his oxygen. Now Ken Norton was the exception. He worked on his body since he was in high school. But he wasn't bulky. At 6'3" and 215-220 it was a good size for him, so he wouldn't gas out and can still fight a full 15 rounds.

sad thing is he has the talent to beat pacquiao I agree with you 100%. The thing is that he lacks heart. First Floyd claims that this will be a mismatch that fighting a one dimensional midget will be his easiest fight. Then he turns around and claims that Manny is one something and he needs to take my test. Not the commisions test but his test. Then every time Pacquiao is about to have a fight is when Floyd resurface to try to take the spot light from him. If Floyd comes in this fight if the do fight with the same mentality he fought Corrales and Gatti he would win. But as of right now I will have to lean towards Pacquiao on this one due to the way he fights, which will give Floyd problems and Manny's heart.

I still think it would be a good fight. I rather see Cotto vs Margarito. If Mayorga/ Margarito ever do fight I would have to put my money Margarito by late round stoppage.

This might sound silly because Shane is the one in there getting hit, but i think he is wrong. The reason is that his perception would have changed. He is a lot older now and arguably shot (if not close to it). Even in the Mayweather fight he was discouraged by punches Floyd threw. If you look at his fights with Oscar, Forrest and Wright he took alot of big shots time and again and was ok and wasn't discouraged (cept against Viper for a few rds). It's just that he is older and not seeing the shots coming, and NOT TAKING THEM AS WELL AS WHEN HE WAS YOUNG.....and on PED's himself. If Manny hits harder than ODLH and Vernon Forest at WW, then i'm sorry he is 100% on a cocktail of HGH, insulin, testosterone, EPO and whatever else. The reason i say this is why wasn't he KOing JMM, Larios and other guys at 130. HE hit JMM plenty of times......way more than he hit Shane....why isn't JMM dead????? It's ridiculous really, you may increase overall power moving up, but relative to the bigger men it won't have the same effect. Manny has increased his speed, punch output and POWER. How can a guy from 130.....who wasn't decapitating guys in the lower weights he was hitting over and over suddenly hit harder than ODLH at 147, a guy that has destroyed fighters with a single left hook??? I personally feel MP is on PED's, but even still he isn't hitting as hard as ODLH or even how hard Shane used to for that matter. It's just Shane's perception....he is older, not as strong....his ability to take a shot isn't what it used to be (again look at the Floyd fight) and he can't see them coming anymore. For the first few rds of their fight Manny hit Margarito at will and Margo went to the corner saying he couldn't hurt him.....that doesn't sound like someone who is hitting harder than the Viper or ODLH??......it when Margo got caught with that brilliant short uppercut he didn't see in a bad spot (orbital bone) that he got hurt. If you look back 8 to 10 years ago. Manny threw punches without sittng down on them and with no technique. He would basically throw the MMA's version of the superman punch in fights. Even though he was winning fights he fought like an amateur. With his wild buzzsaw like style and work rate in the ring that gave other fighters fits. When he started to develop in to more of a complete fighter under Roach. He mastered the right hook and his left hand has improved with that amazing footwork. He became a better puncher. He punches from weird angles that hurts or stuns his opponents with shots they don't see. Manny has good power but he does not have great power. The last person he KO'd was Hatton. Dela hoya, Cotto, Diaz was basically stopped due to the accumaltion effect form his onslaught. Plus Mosley did get hit behind the ear which threw off is equilibriam. But for him to say that he never felt power like that before I think Mosley is stretching the truth a bit. Mosley been in the rings with the likes of Forrest, De La Hoya, Vargas, Cotto, Mayorga, and Margarito. I just don't see Manny punching harder than any of them.

Negative. His oppostion has been very weak. When I look at what I believe is the greatest heavyweight of all time in my opinion is Muhammad Ali. The opposition he faced in his career was sick. Archie Moore (old), Floyd Patterson x2, Henry Cooper x2, Sonny Liston x2, George Chavalo x2, Karl Mildenberg, Cleveland Williams, Zora Foley, Ernie Terrell, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Joe Frazier x3, Jimmy Ellis, Buster Mathis, Bob Foster, Ken Norton x3, George Foreman, Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young, Earnie Shavers, Leo Spinks x2, Larry Holmes, and Trevor Berbick. Plus he was involved 4 times in fight of the year fights. If you question the people on this list do your research on the fighter at the time and how many became or were world champions. I'm not knocking Wladamir but with the help Emmanuel Steward he has become a better and complete fighter. I would not put him as the GOAT but Hall of Fame for sure.

Good for you B-Hop! That will teach stupid people from popping off at the mouth with accusations and no proof. You hit their pockets they will learn their lesson quick. What was Pascal reasoning? The old man hung with you for 12 rounds and you couldn't get him out of there due to your lack of skill and stamina. It takes a lot of oxygen to feed those muscles. Plus technically Pascal was beat by a guy who was just technically superior than him......And the other loudmouth accuser of the other fighter is nothing but an former crackhead/ex-con. This is your credible witness. So where is their proof. In my eyes sue them all. They'll learn.

A lot of people are on here complaining about this fight and how it's unfair or illegitimate due to the weight. Who just wants to see it to watch Marquez get beat? If your going to go running your mouth and calling out a fighter, back that **** up! He is the one who wants this fight! I'm with you 100%. This is what he wanted, he agreed to the weight. Matter of a fact the catchweight was Marquez request and the welterweight title is on the line. (Remember welterweight is between 141-147) Heck, him and Golden Boy at one at one point in time led a campaign for the fight wearing t-shirts on how he already beat Manny twice. So the rest of these so called fans just need to relax and wait for another classic battle.

Yes I know about the stroke but those training methods are still wack, again I didnt ask if he was a great philosopher but trainer, training a guy for a fight takes more than talk. I know Roach, Floyd Sr, Roger, Steward they get in the ring and put in work with their fighters, how can Naz train if he cant physically work with the fighter? Thats why there is no footage on Fightcamp or 24/7, Shanes training is bowling, twitter, and chasing da panties. Ok, but what about Cus Damato. Great trainer and he didn't need to get into the ring. He had greats like Floyd Patterson, Ricardo Torres, and Mike Tyson. Twice in his career he made the youngest heavyweight champion with Patterson and Tyson. People have different styles when it comes to teaching. So I look at there accomplishments and if they are winning and their fighters are improving then great. Some trainers and fighters don't work well together. Prime example Emmanuel Steward and Jermain Taylor. Before Steward got their Taylor came up the ranks and won the undisputed middleweight title. When Steward got there, yes they won some credible fights but Steward got frustrated in a couple of fights with Taylor because he wasn't listening to him. Steward is probaly one of the greatest trainer of all time but Taylor kept on resorting back to bad habits in the ring that exposed himself and left him open. But to say Richardson is a lousy trainer, I have to disagree.

The gaps in the timelines you just pointed to, prove that he wasn't a exciting fighter on a consistent basis. 71, 75, 78 already were the past-prime, post-prison days. You only pointed to one 60's fight vs Liston, and even that one wasn't that exciting on it's merits. There was more excitement reading about it, that Ali's eye might've been poisoned by Liston's gloves than anything that went on in the ring. Or the post-fight celebration from Ali. But 5 of his fights were voted fight of the year. So he can not be that boring. To average boxing fan I can sort of see what they are talking about because they don't know what they are watching....Of course Ali was not the most exciting fighter but to sit there and say that he was boring is totally incorrect. Then you might as well say that Wladamir put people into a coma. I don't knock Wladamir. He does what he got to do to win and I don't trash him. But back to Ali, just go back 50 years and try to find a fighter who has been in 5 fight of the years. Arturo Gatti hasn't been in five and he was one of the most exciting fighters in the last 25 years.

It's funny how you would consider Ali boring. how many other fighters can say that on 5 different occasions he was in the fight of the year. 1964 against Liston, 71' & 75' against Frazier, 74' against Foreman, and 78' against Spinks. Just because you want blood and guts, but this man was athletic, skilled, and has one of the fastest hands in heavyweight history. Plus Ali had more great fights that were exciting. Just as much I can enjoy a knockdown drag out but I can also appreciate a skilled fighter breaking his opponent down. Do you consider Gene Tunney boring? There style is very similar. Do your research next time before you put something out like this.

I think its a little bit of both. A man 6'7" 1/2 249 pounds punching down should be able to pack some power. I believe Wladamir hits harder than Vitali. When have or when was the last time Vitali put somebody down and they stayed down knocked out? Seriously a lot of his previous wins on supposedly quality oppenents has either been they have been stopped on their feet or quit on the stool. Not taking nothing from Vitali and he does hit hard but I think they making it bigger than it seems. Both the K-Bros have two opponents in common. Chris Byrd and Sam Peter. Vitali was winning the fight hands down and caught Chris several times with that right hand and Chris survived. Wladamir caught Chris with the same right hand and the fight was over. Sam Peter was rocked by Wladamir and had him on queer street. Never happen before and Sam has a great chin. Vitali hit him all night with the right hand and nothing happen except Peter quit on the stool and had a swollen face for his troubles. So don't be fooled by numbers. Look at the quality of opposition when its coming to knockouts. But one thing we can say....both of them boys can punch.

Okay lets trt to understand your reasoning. For the last 18-24 months Manny has been accused of steroid use, because of what a former crackhead/convicted felon said so. In the last year and a half Manny has not gain any weight. He walks around between 142-145. And when he fights he is still around or close to that weight. I know a guy personally who uses steroids and in just two months he has gain 20 pounds of muscle and he is bullked and starting to really get cut. So please explain to me if Manny is using why hasn't he gained weight in muscle. Two years he has been using and he is still around the same size. Okay your next argument will be is the he doesn't use it everyday only when he has a fight. Most fighters who are in decent shape take 8 weeks to train. He still should of show some sort of muscle gain in that time. But the people will always gravitate towards the negative. But please look look at the source of where this rumor started from. Is this man credible? If your behind was on the line in a court of law would you want Floyd Sr. to testify on your behalf?

Why would you say anything else is good as a loss if Pacman does not stop Shane? Okay, has anybody in Shane Mosley career ever stopped him? The only person who has dropped Shane professionally and had him seriously hurt was Vernon Forrest. They fought three times once in the amateurs and twice professionally and Forrest always had Shane's number. To me if Manny does knockout Shane I'll be shocked, because for one Shane has a great chin. He took punches from the likes of Forrest, Vargas, Cotto, De La Hoya, Mayorga, and Margarito and they could not knockout Shane. Plus I don't believe that Manny hits harder than the rest of them. Manny gets you with his blinding speed, punches from strange angles that you don't see the punches, and the accumulation effect from all those punches. Don't get me wrong Manny can punch but besides Ricky Hatton who was the last guy that Manny took out with one punch? The best I can see this fight going if Manny is going to win is by decision or if Shane gets old overnight and takes too many punches that the ref or the corner has to save him.

That's not true. To me if you're good you're good. You see what I think what happens is that the people who just stick with or follow only "own kind" is not a true fan of the sport. For me I love the sport first the fighter second. For example, I've been a Pacman fan since 2003. At my job for the last 18 months you see all the filipinos come out the wood work chanting Manny and do not know anything about the fighter or the sport. Trust me I have questioned them. To me when people do that it either shows the lack of intelligence or the amount of ignorance, you tell me.

I don't know about him being the first to ever do it but to go up 14 pounds in 25 months against 5 quality fighters to me is impressive.

I disagree. He does get credit for his skills. There is no question that he is probaly the most skilled fighter in the last decade. The problem what some fans have with ihm is besides his villianous attitude is his heart to fight the best and thinking he is bigger than the sport that made him. I don''t know what happen but after the De La Hoya fight he went down hill regarding public appeal. He was the face of boxing, but he took on this attitude and his public persona took a hit every since.

James Brown - The Boss (Black Caesar Soundtrack)

Where do you get your numbers my friend? 97% of the jobs in America requires them to give blood? I use to do administer drug tests and do phlembotomy. The main reason why companies prefers urine because it is cheaper. The average cost of a urine test is about $44. For a company to get blood from and employee normally takes a court order or something major has to happen like if you were driving a company vehicle and you'll get in to an accident. If they suspect a DUI then with the proper paperwork can retrieve your blood by any means neccesary. I've seen people try to beat the urine test and even with the stuff they use to try to beat the test comes up as well. Most jobs that involve driving, serious money handling, healthcare or construction requires drug testing. The thing is they do this seldomly. The only job that does drug testing constantly is the military and still a few slip through the cracks. What I'm getting at is who is going to over see this drug testing. Because of course we need a commision that over see this. I mean there is already a commision in boxing that does over see it. And so far there have been alot of people who got caught testing positive for banned substance. People like Fernando Vargas, Roy Jones, Tommy Morrison, Orlando Salido, james Toney, Omar Nino, Mike Tyson, Pernell Whitaker, Juan Guzman, Ricardo Mayorga, and Mariano Carrera In MMA you have Royce Gracie, Stephan Booner, Johnnie Morton,Tim Persey, Vinicius Kappke de Quieroz, Chanel Sonnen, Cesar Gracie, Bas Rutten, Diego Sanchez Thiago Alves, Vitor Belfort, Pawel Nastula, Sean Sherk, Josh Burnett, Kevin Randleman, Tim Silva, Bob Sapp, Ken Shamrock, Chris Leben, Phil Baroni, Johny Morton, Jason Winther, Bill Mahood, Hermes Franca, Kirill Sidelnikov, Karo Parisyan, Pawel Nastula, and Carina Damm. They all fall under the same state commision and they all came up positive. Check the history. Just like OST. There has been olympians that have beaten the test. So what makes one test better than the other. One test professional athletes and the other tests amateur athletes. All the years the testing it seems like it has been working. As long as technology keeps improving there is going to be a few individuls that will skate by.

No. Steroids only make you bulk up and stronger. Punching power is something you are born with. Now you can get the technique down on how to get the most out of your punches but look at the fighters of today and yesterday who are true power punchers. They are not built at all. For example Vitali Klitschko does not have a impressive physic like his brother. Joe Frazier didn't have a muscular build, or Earnie Shavers most definetly didn't look like Mr. Universe. These three men are regarded as probaly the top 10 power punchers of all time. Now you take the greatest bodies in boxing of all time Evander Holyfield and Ken Norton and take a look at the KO percentage. Evander 50% and Kenny was 66%. They both can crack but it was not one punch devastating type of power.When you start to get to close to the mid 70% KO ratio now you are talking about real power punchers. Steroids do not make you a better boxer, it does not make you have more of a resistance to taking punches, or give you more punching power. It's either you have it or you don't.

Ali in 78', Roy Jones 05', Ray Leonard 91'

Thats technique she be called the Ruiz technique. He perfected that technique which is boring but effective. I can't stand that style. Jab and Grab until I lull you to sleep and then I catch you with a sneaky right hand then its over. For a long time John Ruiz was either in a title shot or defending his title for a continuous 5 years. So its effective just not crowd pleasing.

You can love him or hate him but he is willing to fight anybody anywhere. When James Toney weights under 230 he is very difficult to beat. His skill set is really uncompared in the heavyweight divison. Its just sad that the drug test came up positive for a steroid that is not used to bulk up but to speed up his healing due to his torn achilles. It is what it is. If the K-bros is going to keep fighting bums then let Toney get a title shot and once that fight is over win or lose maybe he will consider possibly retiring before he takes any more punishment. He has had 84 professional fights winning 73 of them with 3 draws, for sure a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Xylocaine is also called lidocaine which is a numbing agent that can be used in many different ways. It can be use as a topical, injectable, orally, or inhaled. What they are referring to is Mayweather using these injections in his hands before a fight so his hands won't hurt during the bout. Personally I have a problem with that. If my hands are numb and I can hit you as hard as I want without feeling it thats a weapon in it self. That's why if you look more than half this indivduals fights are in Vegas because its legal.

Because he's not required by the Nevada commission to do so. Once the commission makes it mandatory then I am sure he will do so. Or maybe he'd just go fight somewhere else that has very little regulatory standards...maybe Texas. You are absolutely right. The commision has to make it mandatory. They are the ones that makes the rules and policy regarding the weight issue and drug testing standards,

manny could be 1 of the goat if he takes the test to show that his clean. So a test is preventing him from being one of the greatest of all time? Really? If Pac retires todayI would put him probaly in the top 25 fighters of all time. He doesn't really need Floyd. His resume and accomplishments put him as a first ballot hall of fame. Its Floyd that needs Manny. Think about it. I know that he's undeafeated but right now Manny has surpassed him. I give Floyd credit hes not dumb. I don't agree with his choice of his next opponent but it makes sense. He's going to beat Ortiz for the welterweight title in stunning fashion and then you will have two champions fighting to unify the welterweight title just like back in the 80's with Leonard and Hearns. This fight will be a big event. They will come to an agreement this time and its going to be 50-50 split. The fight will probaly go down in March or May 2012. Floyd can not wait any longer he is getting older and if or when both Manny and Floyd win there fight the buzz will be back for this fight and the world will want to see it. There is so much money to be made in this fight I'm pretty sure they will fight at least twice. I'm pretty sure that this fight can almost fill the Cowboys Stadium.

As long as Cotto listen to Steward and box Margarito and don't stand there to slug with him Cotto should be alright and win a decision. Stylistically it will still be a highly entertaining fight.