Roy Jones was perhaps the best athlete I've ever seen. Definitely the best athlete fighter(Boxing, MMA, etc). You just don't get guys like that very often, even once a generation.
You think GGG/Nelo and Kov/Ward were close? GGG and Kov were clearly robbed.
I think Loma beat Haney and i'm a Haney fan BUT I don't thikn it was quite a robbery. There were at least 5 rounds which could go either way.
I don't think Ward- Kova 1 was particularly close, but it was definitely competitive. On first viewing I had GGG-Canelo 1 a draw, in subsequent viewings I had GGG winning the fight.
I was saying that Crawford was the only one fighting for the p4p #1 spot, but thought that Inoue would still have an argument. After this masterclass, no way. Crawford is the CLEAR p4p #1 fighter on the planet. A bonafide ATG.
All those cruiserweights were historical virgil hills.
Anthony Joshua is a Frank Bruno level fighter. he will never hold the heavyweight belt again.
Usyk is a benefactor of circumstance, 2 division champ. However, he does not actually have any historical wins.
There is some truth to this and also why almost nobody was hot on Usyk at Heavy.
His cruiser weight run was no doubt great, but that Breidis fight was a coinflip and could have easily gone either way, but it's a very good win, as are Huck and Hunter, though hardly GOAT crowning.
His heavy weight run started quite poorly with a difficult showing against Witherspoon and a much tougher than expected fight against Chisora. Then comes Joshua, who more or less shit the bed. Twice.
I think Usyk, like Loma, obviously makes the hall but the hype is greater than the actual fighter. Unfortunately for Loma, there was no Joshua type champ at 135(really the strongest division in boxing over the past 10 years or so).
Having said all that, I'm taking Dubois to win.
I'd imagine the winner is going to be ranked #1 P4P.
I think only Crawford is fighting for the definitive p4p #1 spot. Spence doesn't really have the resume or impact that Inoue has, so a Spence win probably puts him in the top 3, though I won't really argue against #1. A Crawford win probably lands him at #1, though I won't argue with those who put Inoue at #1 instead.
This era, the post klitschko era, will be viewed as a golden age of HW boxing. You had the 3-headed chimera in Wilder, Joshua and Fury. Each a monster in their own right. Wilder: the absolutely insane puncher, Joshua the model/athlete fighter, and Fury the gypsy king. Wilder and Fury fought a legendary trilogy. Then you had the cruiser Usyk make his way up and defeat the giant Joshua(the man who ended klitschko's career). It was all very surreal and intense as it was happening.
What does the Klitschko era have to compare. Vitali is at best a hypothetical ATG based entirely of, really, a losing effort against Lewis. Wladimir? the Haye fight. Wlad's fight against Povetkin was a disaster(Wlad's/ref fault). What else do the Klitschkos have?
What we are seeing now in the HW division culminates in the Fury-Usyk fight probably. ~2016-2023. It will be viewed as a much better, and significantly greater stretch of HW action than ~2005-2015!
Begrudgingly I am starting to notice this as well. I only one other "hardcore" boxing fam. Everyone else watches UFC, and as much as I've defended boxing over the past decade, the UFC is just more exciting due to match making. Someone said this earlier in the thread, but this year we've already seen Adesanya fight twice.... we still can't get crawford-spence. Yes, we have a few good fights coming, but it's not enough to compete with the UFC.
I don't have a problem with boxing being a more niche sport, but it's kinda sad to watch how this all happened over the last 20 years.
Very live dog. Something tells me Teo may be one of those guys that looks very, very good at one weight class, but the second he has to go up those advantages disappear. Now, it's too early to say so, but Sandor easily took care of Mikey, so it's a very reasonable pick to take Sandor
Boxing is a highly specialized sport, therefore by definition it's harder by definition.
MMA while not easy by any stretch of the imagination, due to its less specialized nature is going to be easier to succeed in by exploitations of relative strengths.
Good fights. Kova wins both. We watched him win more rounds against Ward and outboxed Hopkins. That alone tells you that Bivol best strengths - the boxing - would be nullified. Regarding beter, we just saw his fight was Yarde, he is very easy to hit, a prime Kova would stop him in the mid rounds.
Let's be honest, Kovalev is much better than either of them and regardless of how you thought Ward-Kov 1 went(Yes, Kov wont that fight) Ward has proven is worth over the 2 fights.
Imma a huge Loma fan, but I give Tank the slight edge. Loma looked really good the other night, but he did look a hair slower than he was a few years back.
Even after he beat AJ I always felt he was just the right guy with the right style in the right place at the right time. AJ was and still is a vulnerable fighter and Ruiz was able to expose his flaws. But for me Ruiz is a C level guy, I don’t even think he’s a top 10 guy tbh and never have. I know a lot of people do but personally I don’t see it. Aside from AJ the resume is paper thin and the performance last night was hardly impressive. I like Ruiz’s style but I think he gets crazily overrated based on one good win.
I think this is a bit harsh, but is generally true. Before the Joshua fight he was looked at as a pretty good HW contender who look decent against Parker. I remember watching his fight against Dimitrencko and think that he had decent speed and power but not a Champ lv guy. Of course I was just as shocked as you all when he beat Joshua the first time. But since that fight, and based on his previous fights, he has looked like he always does - pretty good, but not champion material. Joshua was easily able to move and outboxing him from the outside, negating Ruiz's best strength.
I don't really see him beating the top guys. Joshua could jsut box the same way he did in the second fight again. Fury would box on the outside as well. Ruiz gets hit too much to last 12 with Wilder.
Haye gets a lot of flack on this site for his antics and not being able to deliver in the Wlad and Bellew fights, but he was a very legit CW, and a pretty good Heavy. He had a great KO over a prime Chisora and was the first to official beat Valuev. In his prime I think the Usyk fight at CW is a pick 'em 50/50 type of a thing.
Gervonta did better against Barrios than Canelo did vs Kova. Going into the 11th I thought the canelo fight was going to a close split decision type of an ordeal. Kovalev's jab was able to keep Canelo from doing much of anything for 11 rounds.
I mean Barrios won his fair share of rounds as well and he was able to keep Gervonta at bay for a good amount of time. But the smaller fighter in both fights kept bringing the pressure before getting the stoppage.
I agree, Barrios did well, but that Fight was sealed in the 8th. In the Kovalev fight, there is a bit of historical revision going on with 'canelo easily winning' - Canelo couldn't do much with that jab for 10 rounds and the stoppage came suddenly, where as Barrios, while fighting well, was sapped by the knockdowns in the 8th and took numerous big shots in the earlier rounds.
I think Canelo is a great fighter, already a HOFer, and is the current P4P number 1 fight. Having said all of that - There is NO CHANCE he beats a prime RJJ at 168.
First, nobody historically is beating Jones at 168. Period.
Second, this is a horrible style match-up for Canelo; Fast fighters who can fight on the outside have taken many rounds off Canelo.
Few examples:
Lara - Not only did Lara frustrate and outbox Canelo in many points of the fight. A large portion believe that Lara outright won the fight. Regardless of where you stand on who won, we can all agree that the fight was competitive and Lara was able to frustrate and take many rounds by using his feet.
Saunders - Yes, Canelo knocked him out. But I had it 4-4 going into the 9th and Saunders had a pretty easy time jabbing and moving around Canelo in many of those rounds. Saunders' feet were considerably faster than Canelo's and if that punch doesn't break the orbital bone we would see the fight continue to be close with Saunders having a good deal of success (as long as he keeps moving laterally behind the jab).
Kovalev - There is a bit of historical revision going on with this fight. Canelo did not dominate and KO Kovalev. He was out-jabbed for large portions of the fight and at the time of the KO the fight was close from what I remember. Of course Canelo was coming on and closing the gap with Kovalev but that was already the 11th round. For 10 rounds Kovalev was able to keep Canelo from landing just by moving and throwing shots from the outside.
Golovkin 2 - Golovkin nearly beat Canelo by boxing backwards in this fight and he was probably slower than Canelo at this point!
RJJ at 168 is considerably fast than any of those fighters. Canelo would have trouble following Jones around the ring. He would be bleeding rounds all fight long and I could see Jones winning a wide UD 117-111 type of a fight.
This fight will go like the amir khan fight...body shots will slow bjs down until he gets KO’D with a headshot!!!...
Yea, maybe, but I still want to see Canelo against an in-prime mover. If Canelo gets the ko, Excellent!
Canelo vs BJS is intriguing. Which BJS shows up, and how does Canelo deal with a fighter who is more "fleet-footed" than himself. We've see Canelo struggle with movers so it will be interesting to see!
He has very good power, but it's not at Wilder's level(p4p). I think where GGG's power shines is that his jab is VERY heavy, similar to Kovalev (although Kovalev has a faster and better jab), so when fighters taste the jab the are already getting hurt. Over his power is like an 8.5/10 maybe 9/10, which is very very good, but not quite at that Julian Jackson level.
Andrade reminds me of Lara. We don't really know how good he is. He looks good, but nobody wants to fight him. At 33, he might be slowing down just a tad, so we saw him in a 'better' fight. Boxing is a game of millimeters and which punches just miss you in your late 20s may start hitting you in your mid 30s.
Regarding a fight against GGG, I think I would take GGG. Andrade makes mistakes by throwing those lead uppercuts. That's a recipe for disaster against GGG who will time that and counter with either a hook or an overhand right. You saw Williams catch Andrade a couple of times during the fight.