If Canelo beats charlo, andrade, bivol, benevidez and plant would you put him above mayweather all time?

2 guys moving up from 160 with already subpar 160 resumes. not great wins there. not even floyd-hatton level wins. 2 decent 168 champs but with very light resumes. floyd-ortiz type wins there. 1 very good 175 pounder but not even #1 and if moving down pretty useless. he should fight plant and benavidez and if he wants go to 175. if not stay and wait for a real threat at 168. dont keep pulling these fake 168 pounders up like saunders. oh look i grabbed a belt against a bum! now im a top guy! really...

The resume is not even close even with those wins, they would be great wins though. Canelo would have to beat all of those guys with no controversy to even have a debate. And even if we had a debate, Floyd didn't just get controversial wins over p4p opponents, he dominated them. Diego Corrales was #5 pound for pound. Marquez was #2 pound for pound. Mosley #3 pound for pound. Pacquiao #4 pound for pound. Robert Guerrero was #10. Canelo was #10. I must be missing more. And Floyd DOMINATED all of them. Canelo has yet to dominate a pound for pound fighter. the biggest BS in the ring p4p list is freaking robert guerrero entering it, that shit was far from deserved....also , shane mosley did not deserve that high after the margo fight since margo was only at #8 at the time he beat cotto. canelo too did not look too good vs trout; personally that wbc open scoring BS won that fight for him but about the topic , BIG NO, canelo would not surpass floyd..... those names look great together but none of them are HOF as of right now!

The resume is not even close even with those wins, they would be great wins though. Canelo would have to beat all of those guys with no controversy to even have a debate. And even if we had a debate, Floyd didn't just get controversial wins over p4p opponents, he dominated them. Diego Corrales was #5 pound for pound. Marquez was #2 pound for pound. Mosley #3 pound for pound. Pacquiao #4 pound for pound. Robert Guerrero was #10. Canelo was #10. I must be missing more. And Floyd DOMINATED all of them. Canelo has yet to dominate a pound for pound fighter. Missing Hatton who was #8. Judah was #10 but then was removed when he lost to Baldomir. Pacquaio was #2 P4P by the way, not #4.

Lets say a Victor Ortiz he is probably not in Floyds top 20 wins, right? Has Benevidez, Plant etc actually beaten anybody even on par with a Victor Ortiz? Come on be honest have they?

No. Its almost impossible to become great these days because none of these will fight each other or attempt to build up a great resume. None of them care for the legacies all they want is that big lotto payday. They're good fighters, among the best but lets be real their resumes are pathetic. Who have any of them beaten really? I love Bivol but its like listen let me be real with you Joe Smith Jr is sh1t, he can't box period. Jean Pascal - decent win but Jean is way past it and was never great. Just a good, honest world class fighter at best. Nobody really cared when a 900yr old B-Hop tooled him or Froch or Kovalev etc and they beat much fresher versions. His resume is cr4p and the worst thing is its actually probably the best in that division, says a lot man.

How you gonna do that when the guy who BEAT him is still unbeaten (untested really) .... cant figure this one out

Yes if nel o keeps winning he will be greater.

It would be close! Mayweather will always have that win. It's similar with Pac. Mayweather is the better fighter, Pacman is probably the greater.

Yes but i doubt he would fight Bivol

Bivol beat Jean Pascal and Joe Smith Jr. back to back. Joe is currently WBO Champ, and Pascal is currently interim WBC and WBA regular champ. So I guess we can start there? Again: Aside from Charlo, who has a good resume so far. But the rest, who are they? Are they future HOFers? ATG’s in the making? Are they killers? Are they dominating their division? Who is Andrade’s top 5 best wins? Benavidez top 5 wins? Bivol’s top 5 wins? Plant’s top 5 wins? We are talking about All Time Greatness here. Not interim titles.

If Canelo can go a run of Trout/Lara/GGG/Kovalev/Smith/BJS/Plant/Benavidez/Charlo/Beterbiev or Bivol that would be one of the greatest runs alltime. That would be fighting every top fighter in 3 divisions, that's rare, Canelo is a rare breed that he fights the fights he doesn't have to fight and the ones the fans want. The Mayweather loss won't be used against him, Willie Pep and Henry Armstrong had losses and are both considered top 10 ATG. Both rank way higher than the guys that beat them early on and later in their careers. What matters is what you do in your prime and Canelo's prime started in the second GGG fight imo, people talk about how much he learned from the Mayweather loss but he learned way more in the GGG first fight, he learned he had an iron chin. Once he believed in his chin he's been able to walk guys down, that's been a game changer for him. It's going to be very difficult to win all those fights, let's just hope he dares to be great and fights all those guys.

You could also argue Floyd was past his prime too, so it levels out a bit and the truth is most felt he lost to a mid 30’s GGG. So it really depends how you look at it. the point still stands, I think he needs a fairly convincing win over a p4p type fighter in a fight that most would consider a near 50-50 going into it. That’s what separates real greats from the elites/top world level. right now his most defining fights have been a loss, and two controversial results where one was a fairly clear loss in most people’s eyes, whether you like it or not. Well by your standards gggs had an awful awful career then?(after all he could've lost to Jacobs but somehow won by 3 pts(bs imho),then he had 2 close fights v Canelo,& won neither despite literally getting to keep the 1 judge who had him winning 1st fight,then hes faced Deryev who Jacobs beat cleanly,& he arguably robbed him in manys eyes too(& those were his only elite fights so far) Compare this to every single active fighter & you will see Canelo has not only fought way more champs,back to back at that but hes never been blown out except v Floyd at a cw.(Floyd fought Better after his prime ended,because when he was in his prime he wasn't as skilled nor as filled in at ww) Floyd too had several fights mirroring Canelo v ggg were he won close Decisions,he also won them by wide margins somehow,he had controversial fights v Judah,V Ortiz,V JMM for different reasons. What matters is he found a way to win them all,& he wasn't blown out just like Canelo. Floyds greatness also is due to having so many belts in multiple weights over like 20 yrs, unlike ggg he beat several hof'ers,& yes of course the better Canelo gets the better Floyds legacy gets.

no i wouldnt it would be a fair effort to win all those fights but still couldnt put him in front of floyd So what you're saying is nobody will ever be greater than Floyd? While I do rate him highly as an atg by miles,I think his career is still made out better than it truly was. (Its still an atg career,but not goat,of course) Floyd didn't step out of his comfort zone that often except for the Canelo fight. I think hes been living off that way too much considering he was expected to beat Canelo as it was but still fought him at 152 when Floyd was a champ at full 154 already & had already fought there. (Against Canelos protests,that took some of the extra shine away for me(still among his best Ws), it'd be like Pac fighting Barerra at a cw,that fight to me is why I started thinking so highly of pac at the time,Floyd beating Corrales was impressive to me as well as a few others esp at lower weights)

no i wouldnt it would be a fair effort to win all those fights but still couldnt put him in front of floyd

so if he wins fights he's supposed to win, that makes him great?

You can argue he lost to Ggg but it most definitely was not clearly. It says everything you need to know that those claiming that for years now are now claiming Saunders was winning before the kd(word for word as I said they'd claim once BJS got kod as I knew he would) Vs Floyd he was at a weight he CLEARLY wasn't his best at,so that helps some too You could also argue Floyd was past his prime too, so it levels out a bit and the truth is most felt he lost to a mid 30’s GGG. So it really depends how you look at it. the point still stands, I think he needs a fairly convincing win over a p4p type fighter in a fight that most would consider a near 50-50 going into it. That’s what separates real greats from the elites/top world level. right now his most defining fights have been a loss, and two controversial results where one was a fairly clear loss in most people’s eyes, whether you like it or not.

If Canelo was to beat Bivol & Beterbieve he has an argument for modern goat by miles imho(despite being a longtime "fanboi" of Canelo,I used to never think he was near goat) Pac has an argument too,but hes lost tons & had such a crazy career full of ups & downs,only at lower weights was he as dominant as Canelo has become,& Canelo is going after all the champs near his weight 1 by 1 & is only 30,at this rate if he stays unbeaten for say 3-4 yrs he would probably have the goat resume of back to back champs. You know me, I just hate the weight clauses. I sh!t on Manny all the time for having them, just in case it seems like I pick on Canelo. When Manny "retired" I legit said the Catchweight/Hydration clause era was over :lol1: Covid messed a lot of things up though, Beterbiev is 36 now (was 34 when the Pandemic hit) dude lives clean as hell, but those two years are two big ones. By the time he fights Smith and Bivol he might be 38. Do you retire at that point? at 38 with all the belts (if of course he wins those two fights) Bivol at 175 looks smaller each fight it seems. The last two opponents it was obvious that he was fighting a division above where he should be (he split between 165 and 178 in the Ams, with same day weigh ins) So what do you do if you're him? Move down to 168 with no belt knowing that nobody in the division is going to touch you with a ten foot pole? Or stay at 175 and fight dehydrated cruiserweights? Whole reason he went to 175 was because it was more eyes watching, and 168 is weak (historically so, I used to call it the UK division because for the most part, it's just British guys)

The problem is Canelo’s two big defining fights/opponents were Floyd and GGG. One he lost, and most felt he lost at least one GGG fight clearly. I think he would need another foe where it’s considered a near 50/50 against one of the top p4p type fighters in most people’s eyes and he wins convincingly. that’s the one real criticism anyone can have of his resume so far. It’s an excellent resume but to be considered one of the top ATG’s, you really have to win those big career defining fights properly. You can argue he lost to Ggg but it most definitely was not clearly. It says everything you need to know that those claiming that for years now are now claiming Saunders was winning before the kd(word for word as I said they'd claim once BJS got kod as I knew he would) Vs Floyd he was at a weight he CLEARLY wasn't his best at,so that helps some too

The problem is Canelo’s two big defining fights/opponents were Floyd and GGG. One he lost, and most felt he lost at least one GGG fight clearly. I think he would need another foe where it’s considered a near 50/50 against one of the top p4p type fighters in most people’s eyes and he wins convincingly. that’s the one real criticism anyone can have of his resume so far. It’s an excellent resume but to be considered one of the top ATG’s, you really have to win those big career defining fights properly.

Bivol beat Jean Pascal and Joe Smith Jr. back to back. Joe is currently WBO Champ, and Pascal is currently interim WBC and WBA regular champ. So I guess we can start there? If Canelo was to beat Bivol & Beterbieve he has an argument for modern goat by miles imho(despite being a longtime "fanboi" of Canelo,I used to never think he was near goat) Pac has an argument too,but hes lost tons & had such a crazy career full of ups & downs,only at lower weights was he as dominant as Canelo has become,& Canelo is going after all the champs near his weight 1 by 1 & is only 30,at this rate if he stays unbeaten for say 3-4 yrs he would probably have the goat resume of back to back champs.