Thunder_Lips

obviously someone who did not follow the thread from the begining i said he is no Ali but i meant in terms of skill and overall stature as a fighter being that Ali was far superior and in a different league to Wlad nobody said Wlad was like Pav either you fucking tool i said they both throw the right hand similar what an idiot No, I followed the thread and left my comments. Yes, most would agree that Ali was far superior and in a different league than Wlad as you put it. But as it turns out this is true for most heavyweights and beyond obvious so the relevance of your observation is called into question. And again I stress Wlad and Pavlik have dick in common. Not even how they use or throw their right hands. You are not in a position to question anyone's intelligence.

I'm not sure how anyone could confuse Wlad with Ali. Nobody is Ali, what a fruitless point. Pavlik and Wlad also have dick in common. One is an aggressive crowd pleasing two fisted banger ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFr_uPHUnFo the other is a cautious fighter that measures with his jab from a distance while looking to bomb with the right very sparingly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRUeFfaV-b8 Whatever. I do personally wish we saw more of this from Wlad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtfMDVGJdxM Who knows, maybe we will as Wlad puts the Sanders and Brewster blowouts further behind him. Probably not, but what can you do?

Steele wasn't the time keeper, he called it fair as he believed Taylor didn't look like he could continue at that point in time. Taylor struggled to beat the count, was slumped in the corner, leaning on the ropes, and was looking right in Steele's face when asked if he could continue; he was unresponsive and than looked away as he was asked again. Giving him time to clear his head and seek his corner's advice would be unfair stalling I'd say. People are asking that Steele make an exception for Taylor because he fought hard and there was so little time left and that wouldn't have been fair to Chavez as he also fought a tough fight and deserved a win. This is something that needs to be let go.

The fight proved alot for both fighters, not sure how someone can use it to insult either guy. Lewis at the time was regarded as soft and chinny yet he survived a mauling from a huge puncher without folding. Vitali was looked at as a joke with no heart yet he took Lewis' best punches and fought on with bad cuts and internal injuries. Can't say I wasn't upset when Lewis retired without a rematch. As a fan of either fighter or boxing in general you can only feel cheated.

i'm not some newbie boxing fan. how is it a dumb question? he is 6 ft 6, 240 lbs and has a huge reach advantage, yet, he isnt knocking guys smaller and slower than himself out within 5, because he's had his cage rattled a couple of times. tony "the pussycat" thompson was getting inside againt klitschko, haye has the speed, power and can throw bombs close-range. he destroy klitschko, sanders stye. im not a wlad hater, i actually used to like him, untill his last couple of "fights" This isn't true. Wlad has big shoulders and huge hands but he has pretty short arms for a guy his size. Tony Thompson and Ray Austin all had the true reach advantage in their fights with Wlad. He only had like a 3 inch advantage over Sultan who was absolutely dwarfed in height. It would be nice if Wlad used his uppercut more often like when he stopped Barrett. Where the hell has that punch gone?

im askin all you rjj fans what past fights of his did he really look his best and show his shit?? http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2004/more/09/26/bc.box.johnson.jones.ap/p1_925_jones_ap.jpg

http://www.betonline.com/betting-edge/jones-jr.-calzaghe-odds-557.aspx "Boxing odds may not agree, but the elder fighter is the smart Jones Jr. vs Calzaghe pick. If last week’s Pavlik-Hopkins bout was any indication, aggressive fighters moving up a weight class are very susceptible to more powerful counter-punchers. Despite their age, Roy Jones Jr. and his generation of boxers that dominated the 1990s are by-and-large, superior to the current crop of contenders. Calzaghe has fought one noteworthy fighter in compiling his flawless record—Hopkins—but Jones Jr. won’t make it quite as easy on him this time. Bet on Roy Jones Jr." This is actually a pretty fair take on the fight looking back. Calzaghe was expected to win but there were certainly doubts from more than just hardcore Roy fanboys. I don't think anybody can say they saw this coming from the Slapper: http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07bU9ksgE7d6Y/610x.jpg :haha:

I thought Joe would get knocked down (because of his bad habit of running into right hands early on), get back up and beat down Roy who has no legs, diminished stamina and reflexes for the rest of the fight. I'm a big Glen Johnson fan but whatever Johnson could do, Calzaghe can surely do as well (except for finishing Roy I guess). Jones had not proven anything to me by beating an overweight Trinidad, Hanshaw who was handled easily by Dirrell and Prince Badi Ajamu. Actually, I was having fun with Calzaghe's reputation around these parts as a harmless slapper after the Hopkins fight. My prediction on Calzaghe/Jones from way back. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178317&page=3 "It would be foolish to completely count out Roy Jones but you'd have to be a bigger fool to actually favor him against Calzaghe at this point. Jones won't pull a Bika or Hopkins, he'll try to fight it out and eat lots of shots as a result. I don't think Jones will get knocked out though, maybe a late stoppage at the most. At any rate, Calzaghe by UD. http://youtube.com/watch?v=ms2Zo86NDaY Jones last fight against a pressure fighter with a pulse." Of course Calzaghe was a favorite but lets not pretend Roy was universally given no chance to even make a fight of it . People in this thread are making the fight out to be a bigger farce than Berbick/Ali which is just extreme, it isn't even Ali/Holmes. Still, I do give Joe credit for this win while Jones shouldn't get a free pass for losing. Him and Calzaghe are from the same class/generation of fighters; one just took better care of himself and stayed hungry. Jones dwindling motivation and increasing lack of confidence after the Johnson knockout has been a bigger factor in his decline than weight jumping or other health reasons. There's a reason Tarver did better in the rematches rather than immediately after Jones dropped back down in weight.

It's not even relevant if you happened to give Roy a chance against Joe. The rumormill and hope factor may win some hearts but it don't mean shit to what you witness on fight night, and what we all saw was a dead man in the ring who removed all doubt that he was shot to us in denial. He still has some power, but almost nothing else. Even Jones' handspeed has significantly diminished. The exclamation point was put on the fight for me when Jones throws one of his snappy shots at Joe and he avoids it with his agility and smiles back at grandpa Jones as if to say "too slow old man". Roy even spends a good portion of the fight just trying to get in position to land a big punch, but is too slow to do it and concedes that he can't catch Cal in his corner late in the fight. Hopkins is even faster than him now, and does everything better at 43. How's that? Superman Roy is older than the old man. This is only possible if you've aged in dog years. How could that have happened? It's not just Roy's confidence that's gone Thunder. http://www.compuboxonline.com/notes/jones_notes.shtml Moving up in weight did slow Jones down no doubt though his power punching accuracy stayed strong considering the competition. However, we see a much more alarming drop in his punching output after suffering a flash knockout against the very good and big Tarver. Hmmmm, why does he look so reluctant against Johnson a few months later and against Tarver in their rubber match? Could his confidence have took a huge blow after his first loss in such shocking fashion? Nah, he just aged a decade after the first Tarver fight because of the weight he lost after the Ruiz match or reasons unexplained...eh. Don't kid yourself, Calzaghe's speed had alot to do with Jones looking so slow. Watch these videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5yR5lwL_y0 Hopkins/Pavlik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6MHoYQyakU Jones/Trinidad. Seriously, you think Hopkins is faster right now? Hopkins is simply a much, much, smarter more complete fighter, but he isn't even faster than Roy now. To be blunt get the F**K out of here with a bullshit comment like that.

The greatest achievement of David Tua's career: http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1015000/images/_1019426_lewis300.jpg Seriously, a "just" good contender who ate himself to death. Not exactly a rare breed in the heavyweight division.

The Bruce Seldon fight might as well have been Tyson jacking off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lfQmUZO07g Pavlik fails to stop a quick and busy defense first Taylor, but he does beat the shit out of him and win convincingly. I think Pavlik will win this fight with workrate alone, Hopkins best shot is to stop him and don't see that happening with his spoiling counter and clinch one punch at a time style these days. Will Pavlik stop Hopkins is the real question? I think he can but I still favor Kelly by decision.

My biggest concern with Wlad is that he doesn't seem very concerned about protecting his body. First, Brock and now Thompson have had success going to his body and battering his ribs. Wlad got left with some nasty bruises last Saturday and I wander if that could have been avoided if he developed a better inside game(more uppercuts and short punches before clinching).

This is actually an interesting match up. Jones still has incredible handspeed and accuracy from a variety of angles. Even midway through the Calzaghe fight he was still able to land some good shots like that monster uppercut that would have put lesser fighters out. Froch is going to be eating many flush shots like that before he gets to Jones, durable fighter or not it will take some toll on him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz6JjUz4bVM Jones against a human punching bag in the washed up Sheika. Froch would of course be the favorite but he won't be in for an easy night.

Oh, I voted but never posted. David Haye should be a decent threat to Wlad; he's fast, carries big power, and promises to be looking for the knockout. However, I think Wlad's patient accurate jab and right hand leads are going to be a nightmare for Haye's wait and bomb from mid range approach. Wlad isn't going to give him too many chances and I don't think Haye's defense is going to be consistent enough to avoid taking punishment. I favor Wlad by KO in the middle rounds after a cautious period is followed by a jab fest.

It was a shot Bowe, that had already been in his wars with Holfyield and over training was also a factor. I really can't see the version of Bowe that beat Evander in their first fight being beat him by any version of Golota. Bowe wasn't shot until Golota pulled the trigger. Golota's superior jab, power, and workrate would have always troubled the defensively challenged Bowe; advantages Evander didn't have to exploit. Holyfield is an overall superior fighter but Golota was a tougher match up for Bowe. This is why Bowe avoided fighters like Lewis like the plague as well. Bowe had two chances against Golota, and had training excuses both times. Pathetic. Did Ali, Holmes, Marciano, and Louis get ****ed up by tough but subpar fighters during their peak years because they couldn't properly train twice regardless of how many wars they had been in? No. Bowe wasn't shot he was just lazy as he was his entire career at the top save his single impressive win over a prime Holyfield. After that his resume gets pretty thin and the Golota beat downs are the icing on the cake.

Ali, Louis, Holmes, and Marciano had some of strange magic aura where they could always come out on top most of the time no matter what happened. I think they would ultimately emerge from the pack and against each other who knows, anything could happen. Liston realistically could probably take anyone though. I''ll agree to that. Bowe was tough and skilled but he was also one lazy bastard. I don't think a guy that got beat down by Golota at any stage of their career should be considered in something like this.

Dempsy's inability to conquer Tunney is a pretty big black eye for an all time great's resume, "long count" or not. Marciano did beat Ezzard Charles twice, who was a really great fighter.

I think this is going to be a close decision either way, but I really like Hatton's apparent motivation and confidence. His pushing and holding style should be a pretty good foil for Floyd.

Well, Pavlik is certainly no Lacey. What an odd comparision. Yeah, both hit hard but Pavlik is taller and longer than Calzaghe, and actually sets up his power punches which are considerably more accurate and varied than Lacey's. Pavlik also has very good defense while Lacey has proven to be a human punching bag for the most part. Still, I believe Calzaghe may have too much experience, hand speed, and mobility for Pavlik at this point. Unlike Taylor, Calzaghe can also keep his hands and jab busy for an entire fight. I see Calzaghe winning a UD though Pavlik could catch and hurt him a few times. Kessler/Pavlik would also be very interesting. Kessler has quicker hands than Pavlik, is just as smart and technically sound, and almost as strong. I would slightly favor Kessler by a tough decision but Pavlik could get his reachy jab going and do some damage as well.

Ken Norton makes Wlad and Lewis look like Chuvalo and I'm surprised nobody brings him up more in "glass chin"(or vunerable to knock outs since people often take the term almost literally) discussions. Badly knocked out four times, 2 of which in the first round. The guy folded very early against anybody with power. Sure Foreman, Shavers, and Cooney were big hitters, but Jose Luis Garcia was 6'4 180 and a heavy underdog when he dropped Norton in the first before putting his lights out in the 8th. A crippled Jerry Quarry also had him in trouble a few times. Norton was hell when he didn't fear your power but he never reacted well against bangers. Not the worst chin of all time but when people diss Lewis and Wlad, it is odd that people forget Norton who is often regarded as an all time great in many circles.

Yeah, I remember thinking Lacy got a pretty big gift against Tsypko. Wasn't Lacy even doing the chicken dance a couple times?

I expected Pavlik to batter Taylor but I didn't expect such a devestating knock out. Taylor's mental state was poor coming in and I can only imagine how it will be coming into this one. I can't see Taylor fighting any better than he did in that fight. Pavlik is the deciding factor, hopefully he'll stay focused and not come in overconfident; if he fights as well as he did in the first fight we could be looking at the same result.

Well, Duk Koo Kim most likely died as a result of dehydrating himself prior to the Mancini fight as dehydrated fighters are highly prone to brain injuries. This is the real danger of weight draining. And G-Man almost died because he came into the Benn fight already brain damaged by most accounts.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mET4kzV_ErA Lockett looks a bit quicker than Pavlik, his jab doesn't look bad. I'm not convinced he has the power to hold Kelly off though but he looks like he has some sting. http://youtube.com/watch?v=mgl_yRy0JPs&feature=related He also has shit defense as it turns out, easy to hit on the inside especially where Pavlik will go to work. I say Pavlik by knockout in the middle rounds if he takes his time, if he comes out on fire he could probably stop it earlier. Easy call.

It has certainly been a bad year for heavyweights, overall things don't look too bleak though. We have had pretty fun fights in recent years and I somehow doubt there won't be more. http://youtube.com/watch?v=lq1_IA5Ssbk Vitali vs. Lewis http://youtube.com/watch?v=u76XeY2ZhcU&feature=related Wlad vs. Brewster I http://youtube.com/watch?v=BsQmDIE2724 Bewster vs. Sergei http://youtube.com/watch?v=QwauQXF6B10 Wlad vs. Peter http://youtube.com/watch?v=37hfEAlGVkg Peter vs. Toney I http://youtube.com/watch?v=sF1NhiV203c&feature=related Valuev vs. Chagaev (not nearly as bad as made out to be, actually kind of fun.) I still think there is potential for decent fights, they just aren't getting made right now which is frustrating. Peter turning into such a slug and Wlad's cautious performance against Sultan isn't helping things though.

There where a lot of good fights in the past from what i have, Infact i have found that a lot of the undercard / non title heavyweight fights of the 80's where often better than the main events. The last heavyweight who i really enjoyed watching was Brewster he had some very good fights, one of the only exciting heavyweight of the past 4-5 years. Brewster was very indeed fun, I certainly miss him.

Again, I believe Abraham's hide and hit is a very bad style match up against a guy like Pavlik that can win rounds with workrate at a distance. Pavlik can also split the guard pretty good with his jab and uppercut; and outside of the uninspired Taylor rematch he has shown some impressive body work. I have Pavlik by decision with Abraham taking a beating. (Last time I predictated that, Pavlik surprised me by stopping Taylor) Kessler has the tools to beat Pavlik but I think his confidence has been raped to death by Calzaghe. I'm also finding myself questioning his punching power more and more. Would be interesting to see if Pavlik can outjab him, he certianly has the reach and workrate. Calzaghe can probably beat Pavlik but I don't know. Would be an interesting fight. Calzaghe does his best against attacking fighters like Kessler and Lacy that can give him openings to go to town.

I would favor Pavlik by decision at this stage. Abraham is very tight defensively but his shell style will let Kelly go to work too much and possibly pick off some very good shots. I see Pavlik winning many rounds by just jabbing and banging at his guard while Abraham waits.

Povetkin gets hit a lot, so does Arreola. Problem is I think Arreola might pack the bigger punch. Both guys need some work at this stage but they are really busy which is refreshing in this day and age for heavies, would be an interesting brawl if it happens.