I think There are certain missed opportunities that PBF passed up on.
1) after cutting Baldomir, he was so much faster that he could've gotten the fight stopped on Baldy's cut, getting a TKO and doing something NO ONE expected. Would've been amazing.
2) Didn't fight Margarito after the 8 Million dollar offer. WTF!? There was enough hype around Margarito at the time to make him vs PBF a Lacy - Calzaghe situation. Last I checked, even though Lacy wasnt in calzaghe's league, he was still very good for PBF's career, right? If margarito came in the same way he did with Clottey, PBF could've beaten him in summer, AND be physically able to still beat baldy that fall. At that point it wouldn't matter how boring he is. He just accomplished a major feat that would've made haters STFU.
3) Didn't clean up any of the weight divisions past 130. Never fought casamayor, frietas, Harris, hatton, Margarito, Mosely, or cotto. I'm not arguing that any of these people would beat him. I'm just saying that beating all of them would make for a marginally better career, much less room for scrutiny.
4) Floyds trash talking rarely ever synched up with his in ring actions. He bragged and bragged about what an amazing beating he was going to give DLH, then proceeded to put on a yawn inspiring performance, which really crippled the casual fanbase of boxing.
PBF had so much potential, and he wasted it doing the bare minimum. He's basically been reduced to the part of a WWE villian, where most only tune into him in the hopes that he will be KTFO, or at least hurt. Sad really.
that comes with being a fighter though. instead of making excuses for guys, you should bash them for not being disciplined. and, if you do choose to blame gatti's career failures on distractions, then make sure you praise guys like Mayweather and Hopkins for being in the gym every day of their lives and bringing their best regardless of what was going on in their lives outside the ring.
Well put. I loathe PBF, but I could always point to his work ethic as one thing I liked about him (the best thing actually). He never came in flabby, or out of shape, or with lower stamina. He always came in at his physical best. When watching PBF, you might not get fireworks or entertainment, but he sure as hell won't pull a frietas and tucker out on you.
That was to get fools like u to buy the fight. Floyd didn't beat Oscar with his A game. Throwing 1 or 2 punches at a time. Floyd came out the victor, and that's all that matters.
Congrats sir, you are the cancer of boxing. You are the reason why so many casual fans have moved on to UFC. Bravo!
While he may not be as good as JCC, the similarities are striking.
I'd say while cotto's defence is better, JCC had a much better chin, and his defence caught up with cotto once he got Steward in his corner.
Give it a few more fights before you throw around the term 'upgraded'. If he continues to improve and KO people....maybe.
Yes it is not a big deal at all that the MW champion also became the LHW champion. Even though Sugar Ray Robinson couldn't do it and he is widely regarded as one of the greatest fighters in history...good point. And if you read anything I said it wasn't who Mayweather beat (in terms of Gatti) it was how he beat him. Which was mercilessly in fact I have never seen a champion get dismantled that badly (and Gatti was the champ that night). And I agree with you Gatti is washed up and will struggle mightily with Gomez.
Well, if you actually watched Lacy vs calzaghe or Cintron vs Margarito, or mitchel vs tszyu, then yes. You'd have seen champs get dismantled in BRUTAL fashions. It happens ALL THE TIME.
Typical way to back out of an argument you've found yourself cornered in. Keep hating on the 5 division champ, bro. Call him whatever but make sure you throw in the fact that he's one of the greatest ever and there's nothing people like you can ever to do change that. :bottle:
Didn't you just get mad at someone else being biased? Every time you score a PBF fight you seem to literally find ways that rounds are blatently one sided for PBF. Your a fan of PBF, and can't really stop being a fan long enough to point out when he looks bad. Don't be a hypocrite.
Greatness and skill are two different things. Greatness is getting up from three knock downs to go on and win the fight anyway. GREATNESS is going toward your opponent, and being right next to them for twelve rounds, and STILL not getting hit. GREATNESS is going into that ring, and doing everything in your power to hurt your opponent (within reason). GREATNESS is doing things in that ring that people have difficulty even DREAMING of.
When it comes down to getting points in that ring, PBF is a machine. But greatness is something that always has, and should he retire, always will elude PBF.
Why does this thread exist? If judah felt the low blows affected him that much, he should've thrown some himself (and he did).
If Malignaggi felt that being foul is what was winning cotto the fight, then he should've been foul right back.
You keep the playing field even at all times. If the ref lets him get away with it, then he should let you get away with it too. That's boxing 101!
Thats talking about the bare knuckle days. A round could last 10 seconds if a man went down.
I believe that BmoreBrawler needs to BmoreEducated in the game.................Rockin':boxing:
He was responding to my post...Why not quote me? I feel left out, lol.
Using those old days as a springboard, it is my belief that the ultimate goal of boxing is to KO your opponent. To hurt your opponent while yourself not getting harmed. Kind of like human bullfighting, but both fighters are trying to be the matador (crappy alalogy? Maybe. I have a headache, so deal).
This is not to be interpereted as defence need not apply. Defence is the reason boxing, or any fighting style exists. Thinking logically, the longer you go without getting hit, the more time you have to hit your opponent. And the more you hit your opponent, the closer you get to your goal (KO).
If you believe boxing is a sport, that's fine. I believe it to be a style of fighting, a form of combat like none other.
Make all the excuses about Corrales you want but as far as I know he took the fight and was undefeated when he took it. Plenty of people favored him going into that fight go back and look. Then look at the way he was completely dismantled and it is impressive. The Gatti fight was impressive in the WAY he blew him out. Of course I thought Mayweather would win but not that easily and getting hit that little. And simply dismissing the fact that Mayweather won a title 4 weight classes above where he started is foolish. That would be like dismissing Hopkins' win over Tarver as not great. They both were great because of the circumstances even if the performance wasn't memorable for you.
If you really expected gatti to do any better vs PBF, then you were foolish. Gatti's MO against faster fighters is getting punched in the face. A LOT. That's just what tends to happen. To expect anything less when he fights THE FASTEST GUY HE'S EVER FOUGHT is insane. That's all I have to say about that.
I can't say I heard any of the hype when PBF fought Corrales, but I'll take you at face value. I still really wish (for PBFs sake) that the looming prison time wasn't there tainting his victory. Still, impressive, and probably the fight that PBF fans point to to say "SEE! Not a bum/coward/whatever else PBF haters say". It's great, but due to hindsight being 20/20, it doesn't have that same long lasting greatness that other hall of famer's careers have.
Once again, Fighters get championchips at multiple wieghts all the time. And the 'how' matters. Hopkins Jumped up 2 weight divisions out of nowhere, and beat the best at that weight. That is what it was and how it will be remembered.
PBF didn't fight the best in any weight after 135. He only fought Gatti at 140, judah and baldy at 147, and DLH at 154. While DLH is the king of 154, it's a generally accepted opinion that he doesn't have the stamina he used to. Gatti sure as hell isn't the king of 140, and neither judah or baldy are (or were) the undisputed kings of 147 at the time of their fights with PBF. This considerably hampers the 'greatness' of him having all those belts. Not to mention, the only belt obtained in a memorable fashion is vs gatti, a man who had no business ever fighting PBF.
I can point out quite a few moments. Firstly, how about shutting out and totally dominating an undefeated Diego Corrales knocking him down 5 times... when previously he had been KD 0 times. Secondly, how about one of the most dominating title winning performances of all time against Gatti. Sure Gatti was no A level fighter but I have never seen a championship fight that one sided. I could finish off by saying that he won a title at 154 when he walks around at 150. That is GREAT. We may not like the WAY he does it but face it I don't see boxers accomplishing the things he accomplished very often.
Is that the same deigo corrales that was on his way to prison? The same diego corrales that was fighting in a weight division he had NO BUSINESS being in? The same Corrales that tends to have a hard time with anyone that has any actual boxing skill? THAT corrales? IDK, maybe at the time it was more impressive cuz less people knew about corrales? 5 kds are pretty cool, especially if he'd never been down before.
And gatti had been KOed before, and in more spectacular fashions. Come now, you can't say that actually SURPRIZED you did it? LOL, eveyone knew what that was.
And 154....people win championchips all the time. Something as quiet and subtle as a weight difference doesn't really resonate with greatness.
Your final line tells it all. The WAY something is accomplished is what greatness is all about. If there were no knockdowns in the first round of Pac vs JMM, JMMs tie wouldn't be NEARLY as impressive. If Vargas vs Tito didn't have any low blows, or KDs, or swollen eyes or thumbs....it wouldn't be remembered NEARLY as vividly.
PBF rarely outperforms what the boxing public assumes he'll do. This is detrimental to his greatness.
The only one of these fights that is even in the same league of domination was Lacy-Calzaghe. And I was damned impressed with HOW Calzaghe dominated him. On the other hand Calzaghe never stopped Lacy and Lacy did actually land a couple of good punches they just didn't faze Joe C. When McGirt stopped the fight there was no protest from Gatti because he wanted the fight to be stopped. Margarito v. Cintron...trading punches and having one guy get the better of the other is NOT brutal domination... it is just brutal. Same thing with Mitchell v. Tszyu.
Mitchell was NEVER EVEN IN the fight with tszyu. I don't think that cintron was either (Although I haven't seen that one in a bit, so I'll check it again if you insist).
In much the same fashion, Lacy was never in the fight with joe, and gatti was never in the fight with PBF. The only difference here (KOs aside) is that unlike Lacy/calzaghe, which was an upset, everyone saw (or should've been able to see) a PBF win via KO coming. PBF did little other than what was expected of him.
I heard winky has hired Tito trinidad in his corner, as a sparring partner much like DLH used mosely. I doubt the results will be any better.
Hopkins by UD.
Best? Define best. Best FIGHTer or best BOXer?
Best at winning fights - PBF, easy. The man found out that hurting your opponent doesn't matter. Neither does how good you look or how entertaining you are. Just don't get hurt and remember to throw more and you win no questions asked, doesn't really matter what the opponent does. Truly brilliant.
Best at boxing, as a form of combat - If all pysical aspects were equal, chin, power, speed, etc. I believe that pernell whitaker is the greatest fighter to ever live. If he's not current enough, I'll begrudgingly pick Winky Right. I'd pick Calzaghe, but he really needs to hurry up and fight SOMEONE.
Best FIGHTER - I.E. fighter that is there for a KO, and will do anything to get it. I WAS gonna go with arce....but he just lost. So...Cotto? I guess? He's KOed everyone he's fought at 147 so far...sure, why not.
Best career of our generation - Hell If I know. Probably Pacquiao (KO vs Barrera AND morales? Hell yes)
Best out of ring attitude - Mosely seems like a nice guy. OR IS HE? ( BUM BUM BUM)
HELL YES.
I think RJJ is the single biggest wasted talent in the history of boxing. If he'd gotten a better trainer and managed his career better, he'd STILL be the 160 king, P4P #1 fighter that everyone would talk about.
You thought Pernell was an exciting fighter?
I don't see how Winky Wright is up there. 2 years ago people said he was boring. He fought a great fight with Jermain and beat up Quartey and know he's the best in his generation. Not buyin.
I didn't pick pernell as the most exiting (although I was very entertained by him)
I picked him as the best BOXER. At as far as pure skill, I have never seen anyone display as much as pernell whitaker.
And if I can't pick him, I pick Winky. It has nothing to do with entertainment in this situation. (did you not read how I begrudgingly pick him as opposed to happily?)
the mayweather that blew gatti away would blow any versino of gatti away, thats what you all fail to realize, mayweather is an all time great
I never said that there ever existed a version of gatti that could stand up to mayweather.
However, Getting KO'd twice in a row, in a career in which he has taken ALL KINDS of punishment (even in victory!), suggests that he should really call it quits. I'm not even sure if he can MAKE 140 anymore. He sure shouldn't be fighting at 147.
I think you are confusing greatness with bravery or courage. Not that I disagree with your point so much. But Tony Pep once won a round without throwing a punch supposedly...that is GREAT whether or not it is brave. PBF is boring but he is still a great talent.
Exactly. Willie pep won a round without throwing a single punch, and to THIS DAY, we still talk about it.
THAT is the essence of greatness. The watchability of something over and over, the 'OMG did you see that!?' factor. THAT is greatness.
Where are PBF's moments like that? Where's his 'OMG did you freakin' see that? That was amazing! I had no idea he was even capable of that! Even for a man with his skills, that was amazing!'. Don't bother looking, because he doesn't have them. His career is one giant missed opportunity combined with him doing the bare minimum to obtain victory.
And that, friend, is not greatness. Skill, perhaps. Talent, most certainly. But not greatness.
first off, Gatti was TKO'd in his last 2 fights, not KO'd. There is a big difference. Secondly, Gatti and his 'team' chose the stupidest strategy to try and box mayweather and he didnt even land a punch, he should have absorbed mayweathers shots and at least gotten some power shots in..so I didnt think that fight really showed anything except bad prep and planning...he also said he practically had to kill himself to make weight for the mayweather fight and was satisfied getting that alone.
I dont know about the baldomir fight, I mean in his last interview he said things blew up with McGirt midway into training for that fight and that things got all f'd up with his girlfriend and their family too..so he had a lot of distractions and said he didnt even want to fight but couldnt back out. I dont want to make excuses though because he got beat bad by baldomir but he did have distractions.
However, he did comeback and beat Thomas Daamgard not to long ago in convincing fashion (after the mayweather loss i believe) so I think we will really see if Gatti is shot in this fight against Gomez...but after watching Chavez Jr last weekend I would love to see Gatti vs. Chavez Jr. so Im obv pulling for Gatti to beat Gomez.
TKO, KO....Both mean you got the crap kicked out of you.
The single biggest waste? That's bullshit man, he did manage to win multiple world titles, make most of his opponents look like amatuers, and move up to heavyweight to capture one of the belts. He also had a very active career, unlike alot of fighters and champions. Roy probably could have done things different and accomplished a bit more, but the single biggest waste? Hell no man, that title is reserved for Mike Tyson.
Bullshit?
Name five notable opponents he's had. Really, aside from hopkins, toney, and aguably tarver, he hasn't fought anyone. In essence he wasted his career on people that had no business fighting on the SAME CARD as him. Let alone against him! Had his talent been properly cultivated into talent, he would've not only easily KOd tarver (not outpointed, KOd), but he would STILL be reigning as the P4P king today, NO QUESTION.
That, my friend, is called WASTED TALENT.
Although Id never considered tyson for a waste of talent. You may have a point there, don king messed that man uuuuup.
MY respect? Who cares about mmy respect, he's rich! The best thing PBF can do for the sport of boxing is stay retired.
Who the hell could he fight that it wouldn't be a boring, worthless, fight? All it would do is piss of more casual boxing fans, and make them angry that they were suckered into buying YET ANOTHER PBF PPV that was hyped to be an amazing fight, but won't be.
If mosely wants the fight to happen, and cotto wants the fight to happen, then the fight WILL HAPPEN, regardless of how much DLH and Arum don't like each other.
Should Cotto beat the winner of margarito vs williams, I'd say cotto vs mosely is in the bag.
mayweather jr vs diego corrales. mayweather jr vs hernandez. mayweather jr vs n'dou.
THANK YOU. Jeez, just saying PBF around here starts an argument, you know?
I wasn't terribly impressed by vs corrales, he looked weak (low stamina) at that weight and PBF really didn't need much skill to beat on him at will. Corrales was a punching bag there. The best corrales did was every once in a while throw a counter shot, just to remind PBF to not do anything stupid.
I haven't seen the other two though. I'll check 'em out, thanks.
I'm just asking. I genuinely don't get the view of PBF fans, and would like to be able to enjoy him like the rest of you. This isn't to be a prick. This isn't done as a floyd hate thread. This is me, trying to understand something most don't bother to understand.
Are there eny fights where he actually works for a KO? All I can seem to find him fighting are opponents where he runs(think castillo), or opponents that are punching bags (think gatti). Was he more amazing back at 135? I only started watching after Castillo I. Was he a better fighter before that fight?
What is the quintessential PBF fight? The fight you point to and say, "SEE, he really IS the second coming of pernell whitaker. He really IS the real deal, and not a cowardly runner." The most memorable fight, or the fight that you feel PBF should be remembered by. I'm curious, and it would probably help.
It seems most people only remember Floyd's last 2 fights where he pot shotted his way to victory but they forget that before that he had like 6 straight exciting fights. In 4 of those fights he stalked his opponent and flat out walked them down. In the other 2 he mixed it up but he threw punches in all of them. In that span he had 4 KO's and the other 2 were Zab & Chop which were both exciting fights and were both near KO's also.
Maybe the guy is enjoybale to watch because he is flat out by far the most complete fighter in the game. There is nothing that Floyd cant do and he does it well. He's pretty much the only un flawed fighter out there. If someone believes that a guy like Cotto would beat him then its a joke. This guy gets hit all the time, has been rocked in so many fights, doesnt have great speed, and is solid but not great at cutting the ring off and he's going to beat Floyd? Its a joke.
You dont know what your talking about if you say that he's not comparable to Sweet Pea. I want to ask you what have you been watching if you cant acknowledge his greatness?
Who's talking about cotto? I thought we were talking PBF, lol.
Pernell was probably my favorite fighter ever. That's probably why I tend to lose my head when people dare to make the comparison. To suggest his defensive skills are akin to pernell....hell, why not start saying he has the punching power of rocky marciano, or mayorga's chin while we're at it. From what I've seen, it's not a fair comparison, at ALL.
Why does this thread even exist?
DLH isn't stupid. He's a good businessman, and I highly doubt that a rematch would obtain even mediocre PPV buys, not to mention the case of 'tarnishing his rep'. If DLH really wants to continue fighting, he can fight someone else for more money than PBF. Even in losing, PBF needs DLH more than DLH needs PBF.
PBF will never ever EVER fight Cotto. Peroid. I doubt bob arum can even think of a number high enough to appease floyd. If he turned down 8 Million for margarito, just imagine how much he'll turn down for cotto, especially off of his 'big' win against DLH. He'll be expecting at least 20 million, and I doubt that arum is willing to go through with that.
PBF will never fight anyone again, unless that someone is DLH, because of the money that comes with DLH fights. I couldn't be happier.
were not takin anythin away from cotto.. but cotto is a straight up dirty fighter.
right...so....? Are people arguing that fact? I don't see what that has to do with anything.