That's what I've been telling people for years. None of that fake bs avoiding unifying titles or going for undisputed like it's plague from resident evil. Then picking and choosing fighters with an Einstein level of calculation. No, Crawford doesn't care who has the title or titles. He's going after you and beating the crap out of you and taking your food. You can't fake your legacy when you do that, which is why Mayweathernever did it that way. Crawford is a real legend not a marketing campaign like Mayweather.
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that Crawford's resume is also more honest and he should get more points for that. If memory serves me, Mayweather never went for undisputed anything and rarely ever even tried to unify titles or fight mandatories. That's cause he cherry picked to death. Crawford said I'm going for undisputed. I don't care who has those titles or how in their prime they are, I'm coming after them. That's harder to do. There will always be unpredictable wild card fighters who can make you look bad or get an upset no matter what their record.
That's why fighters avoid doing so when they become a name. Notice Canelo also generally avoided mandatories, until 168 where they were incredibly weak, and also avoided undisputed at 154 abs 160. Crawford is a true champion, no catch weight or A side bs or a favorite referee that's going to let you hold all night. Face it, Crawford is more of an old school purist type of champion where as Mayweather is more of a cosmetic marketing gimmick Don King type champion.
Lol I can't believe this an argument. Pro wrestling is scripted in general but the Montreal screw job absolutely was not and did not play out anything like normally scripted matches even including the last match wrestlers have. That was a business move to screw Bret Hart. I think that's the only op's point.
And to suggest boxing can't be compared to wrestling is ridiculous too. I can compare to boxing to rock em sock em robots if need be. They only need to share one charactistic in common to accomplish that which is a very easy thing to do.
If you can do 12 you can do 15, it is that simple, its all relative to their output, they don't just go from 3 rounders to 15 they work their way up to it which builds acquired muscle memory. most top level pros can come off the street with little training and go a good 6 to 8 rounds.
You skipped over the bit where they used to fight 20 and 40 round fights while it is so relative to the point being made, you're overthinking the basics of human conditioning in terms of output vs recovery time and trying to make this task bigger than what it is, as I said if youre a world class fighter that can fight a championship 12 rounder you can handle 15 no problems at all.
If you can do 12 you can do 15, it is that simple, its all relative to their output, they don't just go from 3 rounders to 15 they work their way up to it which builds acquired muscle memory. most top level pros can come off the street with little training and go a good 6 to 8 rounds.
You skipped over the bit where they used to fight 20 and 40 round fights while it is so relative to the point being made, you're overthinking the basics of human conditioning in terms of output vs recovery time and trying to make this task bigger than what it is, as I said if youre a world class fighter that can fight a championship 12 rounder you can handle 15 no problems at all.
I agree as far as pure conditioning goes. But I'm referring to the nuances that arise when you actually do it. For example, yes 12 rounds requires you to pace yourself. But there are times in the fight where you either overpace yourself by saving energy or underpace yourself by exerting too much. You won't always be able to perfectly pace yourself without cost. Sometimes that means you losing rounds from low activity or getting clipped or ko'ed. And sometimes it can mean you not getting the opponent out of there when you had the chance. Pacing will always be a matter of strategy and it's not generally a good idea to try to keep it fixed every round.
Look at Klitschko vs Joshua. Klitschko could have won had he just expended more energy rather than trying to be smart and conserve it for later. AJ won because he did not and went for broke both early on and late in the fight when the time seemed right. He wasn't caught up trying to perfectly plan every phase of the fight. And when he when he was all gassed out, he had to rely purely on mental grit and determination to stay afloat - a quality he's since lost by becoming too focused on planning things out. Wilder went through a similar thing with Fury in the 3rd fight. He probably had no chance of winning on points. He invested in a ko and underpaced himself by going for broke. It didn't pay off but it was his best shot and he came close. On another day or with another opponent, it might have worked. And when he was all gassed out, he had to fight on pure mental determination. We've already seen other fighters quit on the stool or fight with no heart like AJ vs Usyk in that circumstance in 12 round fights. Imagine fighters having to fight on mental determination for 15 round fights. Not everyone who fights 12 rounds now will be able handle fighting like that for 15, they will mentally break.
Furthermore, some fighters just lack the stamina to perform well for 15 rounds. Most world class fighters today are already at peak conditioning, they can't train more to increase their stamina. We all have limits. Broner for example can barely go 12 rounds in a fight, imagine 15. His work rate would be even lower, perhaps too low to have ever been a world champion. Same goes for Canelo. He always makes mistakes in the middle to late rounds against elite opponents because of fatigue. It would be even worse in a 15 round fight, especially if the other opponent just has more stamina.
And as far as 20 or 40 round fights go, it ultimately makes no difference. Two fighters could be in a 1000 round fight and all that would mean is that they fight till ko or someone quits. Either way, pacing will still be a part of strategy. Over exerting yourself may prove to be more costly in a 40 round fight over a 20 round one. Just as overexterting yourself in a 15 round fight may be more costly than in a 12 rounder. But either way, it always come down to strategy. Just my opinion on it.
100% old timers are severaly overrated. Most would be club fighters In the modern era.
And exactly what metrics are you using to come to that determination?
Please spare me this "new fighters are so great" bs. You can only compare fighters based on similar conditions regarding performance. In other words if they're generally performing under the same obstacles. Outside of that, there is no linear way to compare them.
Furthermore fighters back in the day fought way more often and couldn't just pick which opponent they want to test them as easily. Mayweather is considered an ATG and is probably least proven fighter in that category that you could mention. Dela Hoya is more proven than him. Mayweather to my knowledge has never fought a single mandatory or a fighter in his prime. But he gets more credit than people that have. F outta here.
And no, I don't care how many world champions he beat. Every division will almost always have a world champion but can go months or years without a truly elite fighter. Or may only have one or two elite champions at a time. A world title by itself is almost meaningless without the context of the competition at the time. That's why a fighter is proven by beating elite fighters near their prime and mandatories at least if there's no other way to demonstrate they're fighting truly random styles. Again something Mayweather, an ATG, has never done.
And no matter how low ranked a fighter is, they can always make you at least look bad on the right day and with the right style. All ATG's in the past had to deal with fighters like that, whether through a mandatory or otherwise. They got rocked or buzzed by nobodies. So did Andre Ward vs Daniel Boon, that's what happens when you truly fight random styles. And it happens all combat sports too btw. This new concept in boxing of lower ranked fighters being so effortlessly beatable it's not even worth it, is just a silly marketing gimmick that gullible fans buy in to. Imagine if fighters today had to fight as often and as random opponents as back then? You just assume they'd win every fight effortlessly? You're giving them credit for something they haven't proven they could do and not enough credit to those who actually did it.
And look how close Mayweather vs Dela Hoya was when Dela Hoya was nearly retired. What if Dela Hoya had been 2 or 3 years younger? What if Mayweather actually fought a slick mandatory he didn't get to pick? Or elite fighters, like Dela Hoya, but in their prime? Would he have looked so amazing? Cause he didn't against a nearly retired Dela Hoya. I mean by today's standards Tank is on his way to being an ATG. Canelo would've easily been as great or greater than Mayweather had he not made the mistake of actually fighting elite fighters near their prime - the only times he looked bad btw.
I'd give way more credit to fighters of the past like Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard than fighters today. It's not even close. The only throw back fighter today is Tyson Fury. The rest engage is this silly new marketing gimmick in one way or another.
That's BS, 12 or 15 rounds make little difference to championship-level fighters, they are in shape and pace themselves to go the distance whatever that distance is, its all relative to output, are you saying the guys that did 40 rounds were superhuman lol, they were slugs throwing a few punches per round lumbering around for 20 rounds, the fighters today are in better shape and more explosive than pre-70s fighters, it's all to do with conditioning the human boy scientifically, that's the reason all records keep getting broken by modern athletes.
It's nowhere near that simple. In my opinion there's a huge difference between 12 and 15 rounds. You can only pace yourself so much, especially in a tough fight. Eventually you're just going to have to push yourself in a way that you can't fully plan or calculate. It's not like these guys are just punching speed bags for 15 rounds. They're trying to hit and avoid getting it by other world class fighters. That's going to get harder and harder to do as the rounds go on and not just in a physical way but also a mental one.
What if you're in a real tough fight with a huge puncher or a guy who's faster than you or if your hand is broken? 15 rounds, much more often then 12, is going to force you to go the distance in a way that requires pure metal by which i mean mental strength. It's not something you can really train by exercising. I remember Ali said he felt like he was going to die in the later rounds in Ali vs Fraiser III. But guess what, did he stop the fight? No, he kept pushing on even if it meant possible death. I'm not saying I recommend that but not all fighters are going to have that mental fortitude. Imagine Broner or Anthony Joshua performing well under pressure in a tough fight for 15 rounds. Or even Canelo who's mentally strong but does not have as much stamina. He's going to start making mistakes in the later rounds which we've already saw with 12. At the world stage there's a huge difference between 12 vs 15 round fights that I believe would weed out a lot of today's fighters.
And records in certain sports mean nothing since they're always relative to the competition and ref culture in terms of what refs let you get away with. I mean look at the amount ko's Wilder and GGG have. They were probably on the verge of breaking records. But the second they stepped up in competition, the ko's stopped. As long as a fighter avoids stepping up, they can probably break any record they want. And fighting their little one or two fights a year against fighters of their choice is completely different from fighting more often against opponents you have less control over picking.
you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the arse.
The real truth is that when this fight was a real possibility (not when Ward was injured, not when Ward was having legal battles) team g string (Loefnut and Unable) insisted that this fight could only happen at 164. This after approving 168 for both Froch and Chavez Jr. Team g string knew Ward would be shytehouse lucky to make 168 and 164 would be out of the question. They could act like they wanted a Ward fight but wouldn't actually have to fight him. Clear duck by team g string. If team g string thought he could beat Ward, this fight would have happened already. They don't think he can beat Ward.
Immediately after this, Ward moved up a weight class to fight the #1 light heavy weight (Kovalev) and team g string drug the #3 or#4 welterweight (Brook) up not one but two weight classes for a fight. So who's avoiding tough competition and who isn't?
Ward didn't move up in weight, he just stayed in his natural weight class which was no longer 168. It's only considered moving up when you can stll make weight in a lower weight class easily. And Roc Nation forced Ward to fight Kovalev hence why he was crying about being forced to him because he's black. That sound like someone looking to fight the best? And GGG fought Brook because 4 other mw's ducked him and he needed to stay busy.
But didn't GGG and friends say they'd only go to 154 or 168 for a big PPV fight? GGG haters seem always to leave off that last part of the statement. It's not like they were ready to go up and down in weight just for kicks. And Ward was not and still isn't a big PPV attraction hence why they weren't interested in him and why the 154 - 168 statement mever applied to him. The fight was only of interest from hardcore fans. They were open to the fight but Ward but he was trying to hustle them out of their purse, like he did to Kovalev, when he wasn't even A side. Hence the 164 50/50 purse offer. Not to mention Wards ridiculous offer to fight GGG at the same time they were expecting to fight the Canelo Cotto winner.
I say Crawford , ggg not far behind.
I don't remember Crawford's jabs off the top of my head, but I'd say GGG definitely has an amazing jab. He was using it throughout the Jacobs fight and it was pretty impressive
I give this fight to Brook. I think Spence is overconfident and is rushing in to this fight, similar to Lomachenko/Salido. Of course he's good, but he needs stiff competition to prepare for someone like Brook, who I consider the top ww right now and the best ww in years. It'll probably be close but Spence will come up short. However, we've yet to see how Brook performs given that he's now going down in weight after gaining so much and since his orbital bone injury. That probably makes it even, but if the weight and injury don't affect Brook too much, I think he edges it.
Before the fight...
"Spence has no chance"
"Brook beats him easy"
After the fight - Spence wins...
"Yeah but GGG softened Brook up doe"
After the fight - Brook wins...
"See, told you Spence was overrated!"
Sux, but that's the way it is. Everyone's a critic
Who cares....he beat Jacobs and will fight Canelo, arguably a top 10 p4p fighter just about in his prime. Can we simply withhold judgment until this fight.
It's like GGG haters are clinging to the last days where they can say GGG has fought nobody. It's bad enough for them he beat Jacob's, but if he beats Canelo they feel like they'll be done for.
Hard to say but GGG is on the tail end of his career. I think from here on out he'll just go mostly for high risk high reward fights before he retires. Charlo is way too risky and not enough reward. I think GGG will try to avoid if he can. Next likely fights are two fights with Canelo, Saunders, Eubank Jr., Ramirez, DeGale and maybe some mandos but I think GGG vacates after beating Saunders or whoever the WBO champ is.
This is an interesting Thread. As much as I hate to say this because of his recent comp, Erislandy Lara. Others are Badou Jack, Joe Smith Jr. and Tyson Fury and to a lesser extent Diego Chavez and Big Baby Miller so he can fight Wilder.
This is becoming pathetic. A guy has almost every belt in his division and has a chance to win the lineal his next fight. Think about how crazy you sound, is it his fault champions give up their belts rather then fight him? Comparing him to Broner lol. Who hasn't he fought at 160? Name these champions that had the belts. If he beats Canelo he almost cleaned the division with BJS only left.
You bring up an interesting question. When will the hate for GGG, by mostly black guys and Canelo fans, stop?
Fine by me. Maybe if big name fighters keep dropping the IBF belt, they'll start to change the way they do mandatories. I know Pulev is a good mandatory and so is Spence but please no more Wades or Biziers, mandatories like that just waste everyone's time and holds up a fighters career.
It's funny after all the **** they've been spewing Golovkin fans are the ones making excuses and showing fear for their hype job, while the Canelo fans are confident. :lol1:
Lol...you GGG haters are so childish. So now wanting to fight on an even playing is some how a prepared excuse for losing. It's like you guys get your talking points from the twilight zone
Exactly why not copy PBF?
No, PBF was much much more offensive than this. Broner has to be drained. He looks likes like an amateur. Low ring iq, no sense of timing, panicking
guy did not even try to win the fight. pathetic. a couple flurries lmao. just stood there
Yea, I just realized tonight that Broner honestly has no heart. He didn't even want to exhaust himself I'm guessing because he didn't want to be too uncomfortably tired....terrible
Broner officially gatekeeper status.
Yep...Haymon will now use Broner so establish up and coming fighters. So they can say they beat 4 division champion.