I've read a lot of posts suggesting that froch underestimating groves was the key factor in the fight and how froch will be a different animal this time. IMO groves is a stylistic nightmare for any version of froch and he is the evolving fighter here.
Every time I watch him several aspects of his game look to have significantly improved. I think there is way more scope for him to make positive adjustments than froch. How Carl makes adjustments to negate superior speed, timing, technique and footwork seems difficult. Given that I think George contributed to his own fatigue by getting greedy with his own success and too macho. I think his adjustments are more about choices than attributes.
When he started to engage too much instead of boxing I remember thinking "this is groves fight to lose" That's how I feel about the rematch
I honestly think groves comes out fast, I especially think the use if the word implosion is an indicator of that.
If froch believes the shape of the first fight and his own performance were mainly due to him underestimating groves and the rematch starts in a similar fashion with him shipping heavy blows even though he is fully mentally prepared, that could sow the seeds of doubt.
Not saying that will necessarily happen, but I think that is the mental implosion groves is looking for.
Yes, because the referee was the one, who was hurt by Froch, out on his feet, and not throwing back...
That's just the most ludicrous post I've read about the stoppage. We must have very different definitions of not throwing back. They weren't scoring punches but to his detriment he was trying to fire back instead of holding or covering up.
Hatton should be the favourite. He's the younger fighter in years, much younger in ring-years and he is undefeated. He's also the bigger man and has the big win against Kostya Tszyu under his belt.
I know what your saying but how much do you think his binges between fights will or have already prematurely aged him as a fighter.
he would knock my ass out in less then 30 seconds though
Don't be too hard on yourself, it would take him longer than 30secs to throw his 1st tentative jab.
I think its more a case of the fans needing a great heavyweight champ, white, black or whatever. I'm not denying that anytime there is a new "great white hope" in the ascendency there is a lot of press and hype but in my opinion people would sooner see the rebirth of a mike tyson than a rebirth of tommy morrison.
I can only speak from my experience in the uk but the boxing coverage over here is shit, unless the fight is a superfight or involves some domestic interest there is absolutely no attempt to sell the fight and half the time i end up checking the listings to see if they're actually showing it.
There are a lot of great fighters out there but the sports coverage over here doesn't seem to care unless they're great heavyweights??
He's right though.
Why did Calzaghe wait till he was a million years old to start calling out the big names and fight on US Tv?
Whatever validity there is in Collins point is negated by the fucking hypocrisy of making it.
Why has he waited til he's 2million years old and out of the game before he starts talking trash about calzaghe.
To be honest his ranting comes across as insecure self reasurrance, you don't tell the fans how good you were, you let them watch you and judge for themselves. As for suggesting he fought eubank and benn in there peak, anyone who fought eubank after the tragic ending of the watson fight can't claim that.
The benn, eubank, watson years were a great era in british boxing but collins was at best on the periphary of that.
Cause the USA owns, thats why. We are the greatest at everything. We know you various foreigners choke on the sweet air of freedom when you come here but what can we do?
End of thread
Hahaha, your entire understanding of politics has been taught to you by an ironic line from south park.
A dumb as fuck answer to what started off as a good thread, this is why trailer parks shouldn't be allowed internet access.
Well for the pre hype of HBO, I could of sworn Miranda could have ate Godzilla and shit out King Kong. Lamps said Miranda had "Cosmic Punching POWA". LOL. No disrespect to Miranda, he just ran into a buzzsaw tonight. He hit Pavlik with his best punch, and it didn't even faze Pavlik. If your a power guy, thats pretty disheartning. The first two rounds were intense. After that, Pavlik had his way.
I couldn't agree more with this, i think its easy to underestimate how much psychological damage was done when miranda realised he wasn't gonna blow pavlik away after the hitting him with good shots early on.
Dehydrated or not, for a guy with the aspirations that miranda has he ate too many shots that, without doing a disservice to pavlik someone at that level should not be taking.
I was impressed with pavlik but he didn't even need to vary his offense or work any angles to land on miranda, just kept coming straight down the pipe and landing straight rights and body shots.
To be honest not seen much of miranda, honest question without sarcasm cos i have not seen him at his best to see what all the hype is about. Will he come back better or psychologicaly damaged from this fight, has he been found out or does he maybe need a new trainer? Thanks
Mickey Ward vs. Emmanuel Burton.
That fight was unbelievable, also like
Ward vs Gatti
Gatti vs Rodriguez
Hagler vs Mugabi
Castillio vs Corrales
Benn vs Barkley
Hamed's record is still better than Pacmans though
If you are suggesting that greatness is measured purely on a fighters record then you are a big a joke as Naz. That guy Ali's record wasn't the best, guess he ain't up to much.
Naz was over reliant on 2 assets, he was one of the biggets punchers in boxing pound for pound but could't put punches together or fight on the inside, and his defence was based purely on his cat like reflexes, there was no defence to speak of and he was always gonna get tagged when he stepped in with the real greats of the division. He was never gonna have longevity in his career when your style is reflex based.
Also i suggest you watch the barrera fight again particularly the part where he manhandles him and rams him into the corner, if you think that he was scared of naz and ran away from him with a peek-a- boo style. Thats quite a claim when your boy was in essence a counter puncher himself and looked like a lost soul when he had to come forward and force the fight.
Finally naz could never, ever have been great because he is a bullying cowardly pussy. Can you imagine ali hanging his gloves up and losing the heart to fight after his fight with frazier, or can you honestly imagine naz fighting on with a broken jaw for 15 rounds. Which fight was it when he said that he hadn't had a good fight cos he had a cold, ha ha ha.
He probably still wets the bed dreaming of Barrera
i completely agree, have just posted about it on the thread "don't underestimate oscars weight advantage" see what you think.
Incidentally i think hatton will get his ass handed to him by castillio, tko or cuts. I live near Manchester and he has been spotted out drinking looking not unlike Marlon Brando, that shit has got to catch up with him this time.
Gatti was a very entertaining fighter.
His first fight with Robinson and first fight with Ward were classics. So was his bout with Rodriguez. His fights with Patterson, rubber match with Ward, rematch with Robinson, loss to Manfredy, loss to Baldomir, win over Daamgard...were all pretty good fights as well.
I give him the mantle of being the most exciting fighter from 95-98. From 2000-on though, I give that to Morales. Somewhere along the line, it was passed to Pac-man.
Don't forget the Gabby Ruelas fight, that was a classic. Great is a subjective word, and depends for the qualities you look for he was in no way a great boxer, but he was a great fighter and played his part in more great fights than most. Don't forget boxing is a spectator sport, you can watch a "boring" fight and if you know what your looking for there's a lot to admire in there, but the sport would be in a lot of trouble without the excitement that fighters like gatti bring to the ring.
Gatti will always be one of my favourite fighters because of the sacrifices he made in the ring, he could have won that 1st ward fight if he'd not been drawn into a war but irespect him more for helping to produce an all time classic fight rather than just chalking another one in the Win column.
Put it this way, i would rather own a dvd of gattis top 5 fights than most boxers out there who are considered "great"
:arabia: :arabia: as i said ages ago on these forums GLASS CHIN kahn is a complete fraud it annoys me to see so many people being taken in by all the hype he has a glass jaw and there is nothing anyone can do about it. but he will now be matched even more carefully to keep the money coming in, i look forward to the day he fights a world class fighter and it will be lights out for the glassed jawed fraud. :arabia: :arabia:
Do you know what the word "fraud" means? He maybe overhyped but thats hardly his fault. Any young fighter with potential gets a lot of media attention in the UK.
How would you suggest he handles himself and career to stop being a fraud and conning the boxing public then if you think thats what he's doing.
yes i agree..though i do find it sexy when a girl knows alot about boxing
Haha that just sounds wrong.
Uh Uh UH Oh yeah baby talk dirty to me
ooohhh mayorga, ooh ooh he's a dirty fighter,
Ah Ah Uh Ah, what does he do honey,
oh oh oh oh oooohhh, he hits in a clinch oh oh on the back of a fighters head
UUHHH UUHH UH where baby, on the back of the head UH,
oooohhh oh oh yeh thats the spot just there, back of the head oooooohhhhhh
It's a totally different sport. Those who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.
Firstly, the scoring system in amateur is utter crap. Mere touches with the white part of the glove score just as much as a knockdown.
Secondly, the gloves (Green Hill) stops 80% of the punch impact, according to tests.
Thirdly, to succeed in the amateurs, you need to rely entirely on a high punch output, as judges will score even when punches get blocked.
Have you ever tried being hit with a pro glove? Feels like being hit in the head with a brick. You can push your finger right through the glove and feel the knuckles.
In the pro's, you need to have some kind of strategy, because the other guy can and will knock you out if you don't. They know how you fight, your weaknesses, all that shit.
You can't compare the two sports, it's totally different.
The reason good amateurs become good professionals is technique and level of opposition. They constantly fight and train with the best, so they are among the best...
Good post. I agree that they are vastly different, amatuer boxing reminds me more of olympic fencing very stop start. Being a very good amatuer is obviously a good start, a good indication that you possess SOME of the tools to make it in boxing, technique, speed, reactions, but don't really tell you much about someones punching power, chin or heart.
Plus most of the fighting is done on the outside so its not really that suprising that tyson didn't do that well as an amatuer, its not really suited to someone who looks to slip punches and get inside with power shots. Most of the examples used of succesful conversions from amatuer to pro have enjoyed fighting at distance and have a handy jab.
I'd like to see the story of Joe Louis against Max Schmeling. That could be simply outstanding.
As one poster has already mentioned there is already a film dedicated to this story- Joe and Max.
Max Schmelling comes across well in it, he was a very reluctant representative of nazi germany.
I don't have a problem with the stoppage. But there's a trend all his fighters are getting their asses kicked. So maybe he's a bit overrated as a trainer.
Oh yeh, as soon i started reading this thread that was exactly my train of thought. How can you train a fighter who is at such a massive height disadvantage to his opponent and not have him prepared to deal with a jab. He should have been eating jabs 24/7 in sparring getting his head movement right and trying get inside.
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but honestly, would anyone have sent gatti out to outbox mayweather.
In summary
Gatti, suprised by speed
brewster suprised by jabs
McGirt, overrated as fuck.
The Frank Bruno story- played by Frankie Dettori
The Butterbean story - played by Ricky Hatton when he's not in training
The Prince Naz story- beginning with barrera fight and ending with him as a fat convict, co-starring Vinght Rahmes and The Big Guy From Green Mile as his angry gay cellmates.
Gatti v Hutchinson. Brutal cut in the 2nd round then cut on the other eye in the 3rd, went on to win on points.
The 1st cut was one of the worst i've seen, the concensus of opinion was that the cut would have been bad enough to stop the fight, except that the ref had deemed it was caused by a punch giving Hutchinson the TKO.
The fight was in Montreal, very pro Gatti crowd and Gatti was going crazy claiming the cut was caused by a clash of heads.
The ref was under a lot pressure to let the fight go on.
It was fucking brutal to watch. Some of the other suggestions or alternatives had some real bombs thrown in them, but to me the real brutality of this fight was the lack of really powerful shots, watching gatti picked clean and WISHING floyd would land a haymaker for his own good.
It wouldn't suprise me if gatti was thinking the same, being smashed from pillar to post is one thing but how soul destroying must it be to get took apart like that without one single shot big enough for you to get counted out without the crowd getting on your back or losing self respect, so you gotta stand there and take it indefinitely. Horrible
Yeah man..chavez Jr. I am an idiot. Judging by chavez's last fight gatti could be in for a body shot beating. I also am going on the record. GAtti CRUSHES gomez....
Couldn't agree more with this, I don't see how gomes has a prayer.
Gatti should be able to outbox him or outbrawl him, i think he'll start off reaonably cautious but get encouraged how easily he's catching gomes and open up a bit.
I think he'll do him like dorin with that left hook doubled up head, then body, especially with mickey in his camp. Just put £30 on him to win inside the distance, £150 return including stake, like those odds.
some of you are saying that gomez is overrated, what about gatti?? Gatti is so shot its not funny.... gomez is 9 years younger, has A LOT less wear and is the bigger, stronger man... when was the last time gatti was impressive against decent opposition? 10 years ago? gatti is 35 years old and a beat up, worn out 35 at that...
i love watching gatti fight as much as anyone and i think this fight will be great while at lasts... but to think he's gonnna crush gomez is CRAZY....
Ok but you've got to appreciate the fact that gatti being way past his best is not news, thats the whole point really, cos the fight wouldn't be happening if gomez was fighting a prime gatti, it just wouldn't be a contest, and most people picking gatti have already factored in his age, Danny Stash hopes that gatti calls it a day after this fight.
I take your point, and i'm trying to pick this one with my head and not my heart, but i'm still happy with thinking gatti stops gomes between 5-8 rounds.
Not being argumentative here, genuine question, how do you see the fight going?
Tyson vs. Biggs. Its one of the only times I've seen Tyson toy with an opponent and not put his away when he had the chance. Well he put him away in the 7th.But he was smiling and talking shit to Biggs the whole fight.
I remember Tyson saying after the fight that he was enjoying punishing Biggs and everytime he hit him he could hear him "squeal like a little bitch"