saintpat

Sweet Pea.

Of course post-fight random testing is a nonsense, but that's what Wilder himself said, so I want to know if it'll still happen. Was there any testing at all for this fight, anyway? Wilder said on the same conference call, which was about 10 days before the fight, that he had just got back from giving blood for the test at Labcorps. He did his testing pre-fight. Szpilka said on the call that he hadn't tested. Probably did it a day or two later. Being random, they don't say "We'll be by in a few days to collect your blood."

He should hire Tyson Fury and start wearing ridiculous Halloween costumes to press conferences and blather on about nonsense instead.

Those are some big names that allowed them to make a mark and get some attention. It's seed money investment. They weren't likely banking on those guys making big bank, but on using their names and recognition factor to make some headlines and tell everyone out there that they intend to be players. The thing I most question is whether they're building any sort of promotional infrastructure to be viable. How many cards has Roc Nation actually promoted?

So far it means Team GGG/HBO don't believe their guy can be a big enough draw to justify decent purse money. Canelo and Cotto made well over $5m to fight each other. If GGG is going to be a star, his promotional and television team are going to have to invest. Otherwise we'll get more GGG-Monroe type fights. If you wanna play, you have to get in the sandbox. This is big-boy boxing, gotta pay big-boy purses.

Hello. I am "that kid." I'm also a lawyer who works in the financial industry. It takes about 5 minutes to look up this information and another 5 to write the Reddit post, so I don't actually spend much time on it. I've spent way more time analyzing the court filings in Haymon's various lawsuits and 50 Cent's bankruptcy proceedings. I do it because I'm a huge boxing fan and feel like I can add value to the Reddit boxing community by contributing my legal and financial knowledge when it intersects with my favorite sport. It's nerdy, but I am a nerd. Anyway, you can look up this information yourself. I would post links to my sources, but apparently I am not allowed to do that until I have made 15 posts on this forum. Links to my sources are included in my most recent Reddit post via the citation to my post about the Q3 results. Perhaps someone else can copy and paste them here. The first three links will take you to the current portfolio holdings of the Ivy Asset Strategy Fund, Ivy VIP Asset Strategy Fund, and WRA Asset Strategy Fund. Waddell's Haymon investment vehicle is Media Group Holdings, Series H, as revealed by Sports Business Journal and later confirmed by Haymon's lawyers in court filings. The last two links will take you to the most recent prospectuses for the Ivy Funds and WRA Funds, which disclose the acquisition values of Media Group Holdings, Series H for each fund. Then you just do the math. A couple of questions (I have some understanding of stocks and such but not nearly on the level of someone in your profession); and please don't take this as an attack, I'm just trying to better understand: 1) Is any value attached to the hours and hours of network and cable TV time (some of it network primetime) that PBC has purchased? I would think that has some real value -- is that reflected in the $82M, or is there any way to know? 2) Same for fighter contracts -- is there any value reflected in the top-tier boxers that are tied to PBC? (I'm not sure how this could be measured as there's no guaranteed income, unlike a sports agent who has a contract with, say, a Major League Baseball player who has a guarnteed contract with the agent getting a specified percentage.) 3) Bigger picture, if you could give it to me in layman's terms: If, say, you are the investment house and you give me $100M for my venture (boxing promotion, whatever) as part of your portfolio ... And let's say I spent $50M of it, so there's $50M in real cash left -- can that be devalued so the $50M I have left in the bank be valued as worth less than $50M? (What I mean is, if Haymon/PBC haven't spent all but $82M, if there's like a couple hundred million still in the bank, shouldn't the value reflect cash assets that are in the bank? Or does that somehow work differently?) 4) Understanding the business, are there circumstances or occasions where an investment house would, in its reporting, undervalue an investment on its books for tax purposes or some other reason? Is it possible that this reporting doesn't reflect reality for some reason? I look forward to your answers.

Most guys sign with the best option available. PBC doesn't want everyone.

Don't disagree with this. But it is the TV contract that undergirds it all. A Team's profitability is already ensured before any seat, beer, or hot dog is sold. You're basically proving my point. MLS has to do that because it IS a niche sport (in America). The major sports leagues where ticket revenue is the main source of income are basically all 'niche sports'. But you don't hear Dana White/UFC talking about gate receipts. UFC is talking about multibillion dollar TV deals. It is what PBC/Haymon is aiming for. That's what Arum is shooting for now that the HBO backing has dried up on him. No doubt a promoter would like to fill a 90K stadium. But the numbers indicated that any promoter worth his salt will focus on PPV money, because that's where the difference making money is (under the current model) LINK You want to focus on increasing 7Million over 30million? In the biggest venue possible, your gate receipts are not even 30% of your TV money. You tell me where you think Eddie Hearn's focus is? Every revenue stream is important. Sure, in many cases TV brings in the big money, but not every fight is on TV and not all TV fights bring in big revenue from TV rights. There's a reason Arum chose a fight for Manny that's going to draw 50K or so even though it's not PPV-worthy.

Doomed? There isn't one team owner, or even boxing promoter for that matter, who would prioritize 'fan generated revenue' (i.e. ticket sales/concessions, etc.) over that TV money. That's the type of Arum-esque, promoter driven, crumb chasing, small thinking that has boxing where it is now The NFL (NBA and MLB too) is a dayum money printing machine right now because of its TV contract, while attendance has basically remained remained flat. In fact, it can be better for the league if you watch at home, because they can make it up taxing the advertisers for the right to target your (and the family of four you couldn't afford to reasonably take to a game) eyeballs. And the notion that people only watch a sporting event because of a packed stadium is beyond laughable. When the biggest fight in boxing could be made (MayPac), no one was chasing attendance revenue. They held it at the same place Mayweather always fights. You think the bulk of those record breaking financial numbers for that fight were driven by raising prices for tixs? Keep it real, man. Attendance may have remained "flat" (or flat-ish) in the NFL but revenue from attendance has not -- luxury boxes and whatnot are so important that perfectly good stadiums are being abandoned or torn down as obsolete (see Dallas, Atlanta, etc.) because they don't have those boxes and thus cost owners potential revenue. The NFL is the kingpin -- every pro sports league would love to be able to emulate that model of success, but there are tons of professional sports that exist with live gate being the main source of income. MLS soccer has a TV contract but it amounts to little money-wise -- they are concentrating on filling their arenas and selling tickets and are successful as a growing league. There's a reason that Anthony Joshua drawing 90,000 to an outdoor arena makes him a huge rising star, and the idea that the promotion would be just as happy having him fight in a 10,000- or 20,000-seat arena as in front of that huge crowd in an outdoor setting is ludicrous. That's a TON of money they'd be letting go by the wayside. I could give other examples, but the point is made.

Why does he HAVE to do it? He can say he wants to unify and the WBC in the past along with every other org has allowed that to happen and mandos (STivern a madno lol) has been postponed for a bit. Wilder has to do nothing. PLus, what do you think my point is exactly? Because you clearly have a trouble understanding the point I've made. When has the WBC ever ordered that negotiations for a mandatory begin TODAY on the day of the announcement and THEN changed their mind and allowed a unification. And don't Joshua and Parker ahve fights already scheduled? No unification can happen until those fights occur and we know who the belt-holders are. This really isn't that complicated. It's reality vs. your agenda.

MMA is like gay **** with underwear when they get on the ground. And everytime there's a "here's the sport's newest, greatest star, the Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan and Muhammad Ali all rolled into one," that person gets KTFO. I mean, I just looked at some website's heavyweight rankings and the top five have 25 losses between them. SMH. Muay Thai is two guys hugging and taking turns trying to knee each other. Boring. Kickboxing tried to make it big in the 1990s, got a lot of TV exposure and it was just awful. Mostly fighters would try to get their however-many mandatory kicks out of the way in the first 30 seconds of each round and then it was like watching a couple of novice boxers. Or someone would try a big kick and the other guy would take three or four steps back and the kicker would whiff and miss by a mile, and they'd reset. No flow, terrible action, not a high level of athlete ... just a mess. Boxing has history. Boxing has greatness throughout that history, from Dempsey to Robinson to Leonard and Hearns and Duran ... I could go on and on. It has skill and power and excitement, a range of approaches and among the things that lift it to art form, defense (which you really don't see in those other sports, not at a high level, unless you could grabbing and holding in MMA as defense). It has everything.

Washington is the obvious choice. He's not a bum, but a top-20ish HW. He's about as good as Wildman was going to get.. In ranking of contenders -- taking out all the belt holders (not eligible to be ranked as contenders in the WBC top 10) and those who are not eligible due to PEDs, who are your top 10? I can't see Washington not being in there.

This isn't an HBO-Showtime thing. It isn't a boxing thing. It's a cord-cutter thing. ESPN is losing roughly half a million subscribers per month at the latest rate. Fox Sports is losing about a quarter of a million. Speculation is that ESPN will either be opting out or dramatically bidding lower next time is contracts for NFL, NBA and MLB come up.

Bigger? Yes, because of day-before weigh-ins and rehydration. Those guys had to be on weight on the day of the fight, so they would actually be a pound or so under at the weigh-in to be sure in many cases (you didn't want to go to the steam room or jump rope in a rubber suit like 12 hours or so before fighting if you were a pound over). Welterweights in the days of SRL and Hearns didn't walk around at 168 pounds and enter the ring at 160-plus after rehydrating following a day-before weigh-in. When you fight twice a year, you can walk around 3 months before the fight at 150 and make featherweight or whatever. You couldn't do that if you had to make 126 six or eight times in a year.

Without PEDs, Povetkin is just a soft, pudgy journeyman. Look at his WBA title defenses -- Wawryk, 40-year-old Rahman, 42-year-old Boswell and took an ass-kicking from a cruiserweight. That's the real Povetkin before you pump the Bane chemicals into his veins.

somewhere in moscow.... once I get all the info ima update the main post Thanks! I'll keep a lookout for it.

I don't read Cyrillic. Do they have a venue announced yet?

Having a moment of depression in such a situation isn't a big deal. Going on national TV and crying and talking about it in what seems to me to be an obvious ploy for sympathy, that's what's weak. If she had actually tried to commit suicide and wanted to help other people in that situation by telling how she got past it, that could be a powerful message ... But she didn't try to commit suicide. She just had a short period of time where she thought "this is horrible, I'd rather not go on" -- and that's it. It's not something she needed to go on national television and talk about as tears ran down her cheeks for no other discernible purpose than "feel sorry for me." Champions react to defeat with determination to show that they're better than that, that it was a fluke or they took the opponent lightly or they want to show the world how great they really are. I don't see anything like that from her.

He paid off the hooker you mean. Convicted was the wrong word, but the fact remains that he's a woman beater. Can you cite a source for (a) your allegation that he paid someone off, or (b) that there was a hooker involved? No, you can't. The FACT is that this is an unproven allegation. The charges were dropped. Feel free to keep posting things that aren't true and troll along. You ask why Wilder "get off" (great grammar, oh educated one) and Mayweather doesn't ... Mayweather was convicted.

Nice bit of work there, OP. Thanks!

He paid off the hooker you mean. Convicted was the wrong word, but the fact remains that he's a woman beater. Can you cite a source for (a) your allegation that he paid someone off, or (b) that there was a hooker involved? No, you can't. The FACT is that this is an unproven allegation. The charges were dropped. Feel free to keep posting things that aren't true and troll along.

I believe all charges were dropped. Arrested does not mean convicted.

I don't know the facts here as I just stumbled on this news now and don't yet know what to think, but you make great points here. You don't know the facts, which is why that sounds believable. What they aren't telling you is that "allowable" low level by WADA is for tests BEFORE MARCH 1, because there may have been athletes who took it before Jan. 1 (when it was placed on the banned list -- even though they sent out warnings in September that it was going to be banned so everyone could stop taking it immediately and, thus, test clean). Povetkin failed his test AFTER MARCH 1 -- almost a full two months after. His promoter said he hasn't take it for 8 months. Answer this: How does his promoter KNOW that he hasn't? Has Povetkin been under 24-hour surveillance since September? Of course not. So he has no idea when Sasha took it last. AND Povetkin also tested clean at least three times before then failing, which indicates he took it after the last clean test a couple weeks before. Apparently his masking or flushing agent didn't quite do the job. Almost certainly this was a random, unannounced test and he got popped.

Yeah why are they not even entertaining bringing in a replacement so he doesn't waste his training camp? Obviously it will not be an elite fighter but getting a fighter last minute happens a lot in UFC and more and more does not happening in boxing. SMH Porter should of fought a replacement when Thurman pulled out too. Did the promoter of the fight offer him a replacement opponent? The Russian promoter is the one holding the card. Wilder's team can't say, "Hey, we just called the No. 11 contender and he's available, so we'll be showing up at your ring on May 21 to fight - you'll pay Wilder what he was going to get paid vs. Povetkin and the challenger gets Povetkin's purse." Doesn't work that way. If Wilder's team were promoting it, they could find a sub and make purse negotiations, etc. But the Russian is the promoter and it would have been up to him to make an offer for a substitute.

There is an automatic "retroactive TUE" (WADA just calls it amnesty) for meldonium due to its recent banning and trace amounts testing positive. If 70 nanograms is the true amount in Povetkin's blood, then he qualifies. They postponed the fight because there wasn't enough time to re-test and clear everyone. Cancelling it indefinitely was Lou Dibella's (or someone else on Wilder's team) choice and not related to WADA/VADA. Except for a couple of things: 1) That retroactive "amnesty" was for TESTS BEFORE MARCH 1. This test was a couple days short of two months after that deadline. 2) He passed three tests and then tested negative, which indicates he took it after Jan. 1. Fail. (Not you, Povetkin.)

Crack his also a banned substance.

Article clearly says late summer (July/August) I am incorrect in my thinking, but it seems to indicate later than you're thinking. First day of summer is June 20. Late summer would certainly be the latter third, so late August/mid-September. I was thinking of September as fall and thinking the story indicated that. So either way, no time soon. I can't seem to figure out how to correct the headline. If someone can tell me, I'll change it. Not trying to mislead, but my error obviously and I'd be happy to correct it.

I was really excited for this fight. ****ing Povetkin ruined it. It still does not excuse Wilder's competition, though. He still has no excuse not to face a top 10 heavyweight. Szpilka, his last defense, was top 10. Duhaupas, while relatively unknown at the time, is in the top 10 now (was 14th then I think) after his win over Helenius - he also beat Charr before and lost to roid cheat Terper by a very narrow decision. He's a contender. Molina was a first defense, and he's rebounded with a nice win - not top 10, but still a fringe contender.

Full interview now posted. First was just a short tease with a couple of questions.

All of the above. The real lesson is having a lot of money is WAY different than having a lot of income. Once the income stops, every penny you spend disappears and isn't replaced. It comes out of what you own. New cars, new homes, staying in expensive hotels, taking a private jet instead of flying coach on an airline -- not to mention child support and such -- all of it subtracts from what you have and once a boxer retires there's very little coming in to replace it (unless you're George Foreman with a grill deal). Ten years go by living the Lifestyle of the Rich & Famous without replacement income and *poof* it's gone.