frantic_fighter

I'm talking about guys that can sell out arenas and draw decent ratings, also may have endorsement potential.

You have one guy that is the champion with a not quite so Stellar resume and another who is being touted as a boogie man with an even worse resume. Also in both cases many believe that the champion would be more suited to fight at another weight.

If we rewind back a couple of years ago Goldenboy was seen as the top promotional out fit in the sport with the biggest attraction in the sport Mayweather and rising star Mexican sensation Saul "Canelo"Alvarez heading by far the deepest and most talented roster in the sport. The outfit was managed primarily by Richard Schaeffer and boxing's most mysterious man ivy leaguer and former concert promoter Al Haymon with Eric Gomez serving as matchmaker and Oscar embattled with his many demons serving as a figurehead/mascot. For awhile it all worked, pockets were lined, records were broken, deals were brokered etc. Now comes the irony, on the eve of his company's stars biggest night Oscar enters rehab seeking help from drug addiction/alcoholism. He comes out a changed man* ready to seize control and vows to make amends with his former promoter and business competitor Bob Arum. Meanwhile as he's in the process of seizing control he realizes that while he was asleep at the wheel pen had been put to paper and that his roster as he knew it was no longer his. When you want control you want full control not some measly fee,so what does he do he runs to Arum who whispers sweet nothings in his ear about joint lawsuits,co promoted fights and genuine friendship. The rest is easy, Arum goes on to work with Haymon on boxing's most lucrative fight in the sports history, eventually drops his lawsuit which seriously damaged Oscar's case and slowly sat back and watched as one of his greatest adversaries crumbled. I left out couple of things such as Oscar banishing Schaeffer and Canelo's former promoter's scoring a huge victory over Goldenboy in court.

I'll star by trying to summarize each fighter's career. Cotto began his career with a dominant reign at junior welterweight, (although there were some misses Mayweather, Hatton, and Kostya) Malignaggi and Torres standout. He had his best year as a professional in 2007 when he defeated a prime Judah and a slightly past his prime Mosley. His overall greatness, however may defined by his destruction of B level opponents, he laid beatings on both Quintana and Gomez. He gets points for fighting everyone and spending a large part of his career as an undersized,but dangerous junior middleweight. Next we have the U.K. great Carl Froch. He spent a large part of his earlier career fighting in anonymity, but this all changed significantly with a super six. Blessed with an iron chin and very good power to compliment his awkward fighting style, Froch's greatest strength may have been his resiliency. His resume reads like a who who's of the recent Renaissance at super middle. Kessler, Johnson, undefeated Dirrell, Bute, Taylor,Abraham , Pascal, and an undefeated Groves x2,. His two career losses also age extremely a close decision to a prime Ward and an avenged defeat to Kessler.

Fighting illegally his entire career. I think it's unprecedented,and people call this guy great. It's one thing when an ancient fossil like Bhop fouls occasionally, but Ward has been doing it for his entire career. He seldomly gets warned, rarely gets points taken away and gets called great while cheating. His whole style is akin to a basketball player being allowed to foul with impunity all game or a defensive end being allowed to line up offsides. Which gets me back to my original question, why is he allowed to constantly foul? He doesn't get points taken away from the refs, he doesn't face criticism from the media. There has to be something that I'm missing here.

I could see it going eight if he behaves, but even that may be a bit too generous. Thoughts?

I know this has been beat to death already,but take the Ward/Kovalev fight for example, as soon as it was announced we heard the term boxer versus puncher at nauseam. I assume that most people here are "Hardcores" but if that regurgitated statement doesn't completely brain wash you, it at the very least predisposes you to some potentially bias thinking.For instance I originally gave Ward round three of the fight,but on the second watch I really can't see my reasoning behind that. In fact the only admirable thing that Ward did that round was not being knocked out,and the only legitimate criticism that can be passed along to Kovalev was that he didn't finish Ward off. What is worse this way of thinking seemed to be almost encourage by Kellerman during the telecast.

Regardless of whether you're on the side that believes he won or lost, I think we can all agree that he looked markedly smaller than Kovalev. He also is way slower than he was during his super middle days, which will allow bigger stronger opponents to land. His punches couldn't even budge Kovalev and with guys like Beterbiev,Stevenson,and Gvozdyk waiting in the wings he's swimming with sharks, while only having a pop gun to fend them off.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=td9n-lC8BTg

Dude gave Kovalev all five of the first five rounds. I personally gave Ward rounds 3 and 5. He then has the audacity to say where is the speed and defense from Ward late in the fight. If anyone was exposed last night it was some of these so called experts and their bias.

I think that Lomachenko is a very strong candidate, but do we even still count him after what the old master Salido did to him. Golovkin could also find himself on the list if he stops ducking that 10 million dollar *ss whooping.

I'm a bit skeptical to say the least. I think Kovalev is being flagrantly overlooked by some Ward fans. I think that if Kovalev proves to be too strong for Ward on the inside that this fight could be over before it begins. Ward's best and possibly only"real" chance at victory is to attempt to smother Kovalev on the inside.

Anyone who's shown even the slightest inkling of interest in Ward's career knows that he can push the envelope on the Marquess of Queensbury rules. Conversely, if you've followed Kovalev's career you'd notice that even for someone who competes in combat sports his level of savagery often stands out. So I was wondering the likelihood of a foul fest erupting and would the referee be willing to actually disqualify anyone in a fight of this magnitude.

Thurman dropping hints of his strategy here and there. It really makes me think that he is going to be in full run time mode against Garcia. He started by saying that Danny was "flat footed", he then said said that Danny doesn't get many late fight knockouts. He later said that I have to box smart when asked about his strategy. As a fan nothing is worse than seeing the naturally bigger guy running, this fight has a lot of buzz right now, but I guarantee you that if Keith goes into full "run time" mode no matter who wins the fight it'll will be yet another loss for boxing and a squandered opportunity. I hope I'm wrong.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXjsp9WDUg

The guy was hospitalized by a career feathweight in Guerrero; sighting headaches and dizziness. Got put in full "run time" mode vs a French senior citizen. Posted pics of boo-boos on his back after the Porter fight,has PTSD episodes anytime someone touches him to the body. Shared a brief,but very sensual snog with a male fan following the Karrass fight. To top it all off the guy wears a freaking ponytail. I don't care what anyone says the guy is s-o-f-t, my guess is that the first time that Garcia hooks him to midsection he'll be shook the rest of the fight. This may have a Cotto/Judah like out come.

I'll begin with the one that irks me the most, walking around weight. I just don't understand the basis for bringing it up in a conversation about boxing. It's completely irrelevant, I'd say that most fighters are bloated in between fights, so the fact that a welterweight is 180 pounds, while inactive means zero. Compubox is another aspect used to judge the sport that I don't particularly care about. The numbers themselves aren't really an issue. The thing that bothers me is how people will view them in a vacuum,as if they can tell the entire story about a fight. Fighter A could have two rounds of high activity that skews the numbers overall or fighter B landed less in volume, but caused more damage with his punches. Then there is always human error,corruption, or incompetence to worry about.

I think off the top of my head guys like Maidana,Salido, and Provodnikov should be locks. It would be interesting to see how many fighters currently fighting or recently retired deserve the action fighter clause. Also what specific guidelines would they have to meet to be eligible? I personally think that five action/war fights with a minimum participation in three fight of the year candidates would be a decent starting point.

In November of 2013, Kovalev, then a budding star squared off against former amateur rival Ismael Sillahk. What most may remember from that fight was a brutal second round ko, followed by an unusual celebration and post fight interview. Which shouldn't be glossed over,however is what took place during the first round. Sillahk, who for all of his shortcomings in the chin department, was thought to be the better technician of the two, was handily out jabbed and overall outboxed by the supposed"puncher" in the first stanza. I know it's a small sample size,but he followed that feat up with a complete wipe out of the aging great Hopkins, who old or not still has enough wit to cause anybody problems. Kovalev could potentially be a rare (Thomas )Hearns like fighter, who not only packs a potent punch, but also has next level technical prowess should he need it.

Some people claim that if Ward was from any country other then America that his fights wouldn't even be televised. I was wondering if that were indeed the case by comparing his entertainment value to the only other notable p4p fighter that fights in obscurity. So if a Ward and Rigondeaux fight was on at the same time and their opponents were both rated the same, whose fight would you be more likely to watch?

I was too young to follow the sport in his prime,but I have since watched countless fights and highlights. He was the real deal, technically proficient in both offense and defense,underated speed, and decent pop. But the one thing that caught my attention above all else was how disfigured his opponents looked after the bell. Chavez was a very good puncher,but their have certainly been harder punchers who have pounded their opponents for twelve rounds without them looking like hamburger meat. The only guy I could find a comparison for it was Margarito and we know the clouds of controversy that surround his career. So legitimate question or not?

Canelo made his splash on American soil in March of 2011 defeating tough B level Welter Mathew Hatton by unanimous decision for the vacant WBC junior middle weight title. He then made four defenses against faded names(Rhodes,Mosley,Cintron,and Gomez) before facing former jw contender Jose Lopez.Next he made his first legit defense against Trout,many fans were shocked by the wide scores, some felt he was out worked.He was then routed by Mayweather,and got a tko over a shot Angulo.Next was curious scorecards again vs Lara, shot Kirkland,war torn small Cotto,s mall Khan and green Liam Smith. So, champ or Chump?

Their is going to be a lot of crow to eat,but I suppose the excuses will flood in just like the last time. My money is on Thurman being over trained or drained when he loses.

Golovkin fights a true no hoper in Wade then takes on a welterweight. Garcia fights a welterweight in Guerrero and a no hoper in Vargas. So, Why the double standard?

It's seems like they attempt to omit the fact that Lemieux had already been exposed, as a limited can with power multiple times before facing Golovkin... weird.

According to Golovkin's fans, he planned on getting his nose busted,face swollen,and trainer berating him. He's really sweet pea Golovkin,but only when facing limited brawlers like Lemuix,when he feels threatened.

In the fall of 2012, Golovkin made his official debut on American soil,in upstate Newyork. It was everything the pugilistic science needed after years of being handicapped by aging stars, and politics. He was exciting ,charasmatic, and, ambitious; as he bolstered in broken English in the aftermath of his sixth round destruction of the brave,but overmatched Proska. "Anybody from 154 to 168", he proclaimed. And just like that the media was smitten.Soon stories about his sparring began to spread like wildfire,taking on an almost mythical presence on forums and fan sites. All the while he delivered, sensational knockouts,hilarious interviews, and charisma. His fights are captivating and brutal, catering to a fan base out for bloodlust after years of being held under the whim of a tactician who provided most of the fights excitement before the bell ever rang.Now for the negative,It is fastly approaching four years since the Kazak destroyer first set foot on American soil. Almost half a decade since the fighter affectionately called Triple G by fans declared anyone from 154 to 168. Since then we have seen him demand catch weights from larger opponents and down right refuse them for smaller more marketable opponents. He has become everything that he was promised not to be,everything that his arrival was to provide us relief from. An aging star,with diva behavior. He is content upon residing over a talent decrepit division with contenders afraid of their own shadows. Taking on the middleweight equivalent of Joe Louis's bums of the month. All the while facing almost zero criticism from the media.

A fighter that you enjoy watching,but for whatever reason is unlikely to ever be considered elite.

I was trying to figure out why Danny Garcia is such a hated figure in boxing,I mean in this in your face/entitled generation of athletes he's humble,and hard working.He has neither blazing speed or skull shattering power,but boxings suppose to be a sport where the internal workings of a fighter(I.e mental fortitude,heart,and determination)reign supreme.My conclusion is that boxing much like life is composed of hypocrisy,contradiction,and bias.David is revered as long as he isn't imprinting those stones in the skull of my Goliath.He beat my fighter(Khan/Matthysse,)and grudges were made.his competitive fights are losses,solid performances are now mediocre.Jubilation will be mine when he is defeated.

Dan Rafael recently announced that Terrance Crawford would be taking on Deirry Jean,an obscure fighter from Canada best known for being a punching bag for one Lamont Peterson.The man problem I have with this fight and Terrance Crawford in general is that I feel that he is getting universal acclaim for fighting sub par opposition.I mean Rafael even categorized this fight as being solid.