If that fight didn't happen Pac wouldve taken longer to improve in his technical deficiencies....and would've probably lost to Morales even more decisively.
JMM being JMM, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is p4p # 2, arguably # 1. But lets be honest here, Floyd WAS/IS the p4p#1, and now he's back. The logic here is fundamental, even if the'yre comparable in skill...Floyd is just simply bigger and that adage that the great big man should beat the great smaller man should hold true in this case. JMM doesn't really hold any advantages on the intangibles either.
Stylistically? Floyd is all wrong for JMM. JMM shines when his opponent comes after him. i.e. Juan Diaz, Pac....Floyd doesnt need to, and can win selectively potshotting from range. That means it is JMM who has to press and that means it is JMM who will get "JMM"ed. JMM seems to be banking on the fact that Floyd maybe 2 years rusty....see, that seems to be the only factor going for JMM imo. Seeing Floyd, he looks fit as ever.
Ultimately, I think this is just smart matchmaking on Floyd's part. We all know why he came back, it is for the big money fight with Pac. They're gunning for a dominant win against JMM as ammo to Pac's wins against Hoya/Hatton. Floyd can say, "I easily beat the guy that many thought beat Pac" Thats how I see it....so yeh I think it is what it is : a "flashy, glossy" tuneup designed to make it look like it is not.
Pacman is very good fighter and has every right to be the best P4P fighter. However, recent fights he's been placed on are somewhat overrated and should not be used as a scale to judge him as a fighter. In the last years he's only fought one good, "A", fighter and thats JMM. All the other were either past glory or were never considered "A" level fighters.
Pacman vs. :
Hatton(almost got TKO by Lazcano, unknown fighter), one-sided, whooping.
DLH(dehydrated), one sided.
D.Diaz(poor guy was a moving punching bag for Pacman), one-sided
Morales(last 2 fights, last one was no competition for Pacman)
Barrera(fill in) one-sided
It's evident Pacman trains so hard, that his fights become so easy, But at what point do you stop giving him easy fighters to truly test him and give the fans their money's worth.
Hand-Picking fighters can only go so far. Agree with or not?
Arum is talking about Chavez Jr. vs. Pacman, ARE YOU SERIOUS???!!!!!
Yo TS, at what point does the consideration of cherrypicking start anyways? Its certainly not before the actual fights themselves isnt it? It seems it only becomes "cherrypicking" after Pac obliterates the opposition. Hypothetically, if Pac fights a 36 yr old JMM at 140 and blows him out in 2...it wouldnt surprised me if u would twist that around as well to where it eventually becomes "cherrypicking".
...like the other guy said, too transparent.
Here's an opinion.
After Pacquiao fought the last two decent fighters in his resume, Barrera and Marquez, he moved up in weight to fight weight drained or ruined fighters which makes him appear improved, but as soon as he fights an elite again, he will once again for the 3rd time look like shit!
Here's another opinion: JMM would never get a whiff of Pac's accolades for the simple fact that Pac takes care of weight-drained fighters whereas JMM had skeletor Pac in front of him and still got put on his ass. And thats the difference between Pac and the rest. He finds a way to win even if he ISNT in his prime fighting state.
Here's an opinion: Pac was weight drained for both the MAB and JMM rematches (compare the weigh-in pics to his later fights.) Yet still had more than enough to win. For real, if there was like 20more secs at that third round Pac would've finished him. Luckily for JMM, the fight lasted 12 which worked great for him as it handicaps fighters who are weight-drained.
If there was no belt at stake at 130, they would've fought at 135 and Pac would've had an easier time and we wouldnt be talkn as if JMM is even near Pac's level. At 140 Pac destroys him.
Conspiracy theory? Roach has admitted that he has to, and I quote, "look after my guy". Why does Manny have to fight WW's by making them drop down in weight and give Manny an advantage? All I'm saying is, either fight them at their own weight or don't fight them at all. He can fight guys at lightweight and LWW on an even playing field, so why not just fight them?
Those guys at ww are the ones calling Pac out. U talk about fighting them at a level playing field...thats what havn those guys droppin in weight is for, to even the playn field. U seem to forget its those guys that have physical advantages on Pac not the other way around.
how did you come to the conclusion that manny was weight drained?and if manny was weight drained at 130 and 126 why did he choose not to fight erik morales at 135 and instead made erik come back down in weight
When your face looks gaunt and you have listless body movements as he did in the MAB/JMM rematch weigh-in pics (actually watch the videos)...it is accurate to assume that he was weight-drained. For further proof, all you have to do is compare how Pac looked and moved leading up to the his next 3 fights after that at 135/147/140. Actually even at 135, Pac didnt look as spritely as he did against Hatton and DelaHoya...and its not like Diaz was faster than Hoya or Hatton...he just wasnt at his strongest weight.
Against Morales that was like what 3 years ago? Of course there's a transitional period when you're body is going through that process of growing. He could still make 130 comfortably back then. Buti n his very next fight against Solis, Pac was actually criticized for being a little lethargic in that fight...see the progression? Then against MAB, Pac looked mad irritated and grumpy at the weigh-in....same deal againts JMM. Then he went up in weight and now he's like busting out laughing and jokin around when he does his weigh-ins. So what does that say to you?
...Pac WAS weight-drained against JMM and he was damned lucky he was.
Level playing field isnt making someone lose a lot of weigh by coming down to weigh, Losing weigh is one of the most difficult things in boxing if you're a bigger guy because you really dont have enough time to re-hydrate.
If you're a bigger guy having to lose alot of weigh then you really dont have any physical advantages left going into the ring.
Thats why Roach is a very smart guy..
And on the flipside, fighting guys who weighs in 160 on fight night isn't very level either for someone who comes in at 148. So the question here then is who is callin out who? I think we can all agree that it is Pac who is in the driver's seat here, so if Cotto is willing to cut down to 143, it can only mean he is confident enough to be able to do so.
Again it is the ww's who are callin Pac out. Why should Pac fight those guys at their advantage?? They need him more than he does.
of those 3 fights pacquiao looked the worst in the hatton fight and as far as the david diaz fight he didn't have to do anything diaz is a slow come forward boxer so all manny had to do was stand there and outbox diaz and if anything manny looked the best against david diaz and if manny is somewhat drained at 135 why is it that they refuse to fight floyd,shane or cotto at 147?
The comparison is not how Pac looked within those 3 fights after Marquez....the difference within those 3 fights are negligible....in general you could say he looked healthy in all 3 of those. THERE IS a difference between how Pac looked leading up to the fights against MAB and JMM to how he looked now against the likes of Diaz/Hoya/Pac.
Pac did not look gaunt and lifeless at the Hatton weigh-in, even if you think he looked worse comparitively to the Hoya/Diaz fights... I guess its all subjective coz I happen to think he looked at his most healthy against Hatton.
But this observation isnt subjective---Pac did look gaunt and lifeless during the JMM and MAb weigh-ins when his cheeks were really sunken in and he was in-and-outta there in a quickness...probably to a buffet table behind the curtains.
He just needs to be patient like he usually is. JMM being a counterpuncher that would be hard to do. But since JMM has more to lose, imma go out on a limb and say he will feel the need to press the action. Ideally JMM would want Floyd to commit first, and Floyd being the bigger guy, he might be tempted to...Foyd needs to not fall for that. I think this the only way JMM has a chance to win....like I said, Floyd just needs to be patient, he got all the advantages, and he should win this.
So yor saying Pac is sloppy, basic, amateurish, basicallythe same one-dimensional brawler from a decade ago, sloppy fundamentals, horrible footwork....
...and u also said you're not a hater. FAIL!
Yeah but like I always say, Southpaw has alot to do with that and he wasnt fighting exactly the hardest to hit guy in the world. Again, I think being a Southpaw is a huge advantage and thats why I say that I will give them more of a chance against Floyd then anyone. I dont think a righty can hit a Prime Mayweather clean but a Southpaw can catch even the best defensive guys and Pac still may do that. He has his chance to catch Floyd in the first 3 rounds or so but after that I think Floyd will teach a class on him. Hatton cant fight Southpaws well. They do everything opposite and you can see that Hatton had no idea how to attack Pac. He was completely thrown off and couldnt even see the basic of punches coming. Its like Wlad vs Sanders
Im actually pullin for Floyd here but I keep remembering that compact right Zab landed on Floyd and how it looks very similar to the one Pac landed on Hatton. IMO if Floyd is still the same Floyd he can pull this one out, but by no means is this an easy fight. And for real, if anything Pac deserves the benefit of the doubt. U dont get all this livin legend ATG talk for being amateurish.
The only mistake he made was pricing himself out of the rematch and going to indoneisa.
The only mistakes were made by the judges in the two fights who robbed him. JMM is 2-0 against Packy.
And for the poster saying "what if there was more time in those rounds" thats bullshit. The same could be said about all the times JMM wobbled Packy's ass.
No what if's.
Hey Im feelin ya man, but isnt this what this thread is about? What if coulda shoulda woulda's?
Well what If JMM started dry humpin Pacman in the ring, mistaking him for his gay japanese lover!!! It ain't ever gonna happen, just like the extra time would never happen. Taking a rematch immediately COULD have happened but it didn't, and it set back JMM marquez's career 4-5 years. Just wondering what people think about his mistakes.
I have this naggin suspicion that JMM actually wants that to happen...if any those pics I've seen are any indication.
I heard people say how did I get all that from a 2 round destruction and its because I always analyze this stuff. Its like how Roach could pick out all the flaws from a Hatton one sided dominant performance over Paulie. You can see things.
The main thing is Floyd Senior. When Hatton loses then everyone looks at him like he doesnt know what he's talking about but everything he said is actually true. Its not just trash talk. Alot of things Pac does is amaturish but he can get away with it because he's so physicaly gifted and mostly because he's a Southpaw which is a huge advantage in boxing. If he was a righty then JMM wouldve destroyed him in both fights, easily. Again, Im not a Pac hater. Im just telling you what I honestly saw. He's highly highly flawed.
One poster talked about earlier in his career and Im not saying that. He's definatly grown alot and can do more things but his basic fundementals in doing it are flawed. A great pure boxer can make him look bad and thats what JMM has done even though he's out gunned in so many physical catagories. Floyd will do the same x10
Can u elaborate exactly how flawed he is? Coz all I saw in that fight(especially the knockdowns) were the most picture-perfect punches comparable to anything JMM has ever thrown. I'm talking perfect punches here, ko-of-the-decade type quality...which landed in multiple occasions. Such punches requires timing, placement, power, and balance...yet u say he is amateurish. Maybe he's just damned lucky huh?
Because Pac fans are as blind as the lame judges who scored those fights! JMM won both fights just watch Pacs face on the second fight when they anounce him the winner how shocked he is (because he knows deep down he lost) why else would he tell JMM right after the fight there would be no rematch! Pac your gonna have to face the real P4P fighter JMM one day!!
Pac's face? What da hell kinda reasoning is this? U know that was Pac's first close decision experience...maybe he's just not used to it the way JMM is. I swear man, yall with your lameass excuses
I know much people are nostalgique and like too keep up the old fighters, but for mee manny is easaly in the top 10 of the greatest fighters of all time. When you look at roberto duran he is a great legend, but i think many has achieved just as much, and is as great as him.
PS : Excuse me for my english, it's no so well.
He aint top 10....personally I'd put him n the 30-40 range. Yor english is fine, nowadys hardly anyone ever speaks it, in my parts anyways.
Coz JMM is damned crybaby...no one likes a sore loser. I do understand JMM's point of view though that the decision could've gone to him, but I don't think he understands that the decision also could've gone to Pac. It was a close fight, and JMM needs to quit sourgrapin.
Lets put it this way, if Pac was American...he would've fought mostly Americans. Any international boxing talent has to fight a who's who of natioanls to reach the top. U can also say Hatton was an international bully. Questions?
That's all I read. People discrediting Pacquiao wins saying they were easy wins.
If you told me a year ago That Pacquiao was going to move up to lightweight and fight for a belt I would probably say alright Pacquiao will probably win but it depends on how he looks at lightweight because he never fought there.
Then you tell me after that he's going to fight at welterweight against Oscar De La Hoya and move down to 140 to fight Ricky Hatton after.........I would call you fukin crazy. I would say both those guys KO him.
Does anyone remember how much of a joke the De La Hoya fight was considered when it first came up? Everyone picked against Pacquiao in that fight and said he had no chance. Then he DESTROYS De La Hoya. Now people don't even consider it a good win. Pacquiao accomplished something incredible that night.
Then the only reason Pacquiao was favored over Hatton was because he just looked so great against Oscar at a higher weight. Had he just moved up and fought Hatton after Diaz than nobody would give him a chance. Still, many thought Hatton was his real test above 135 and that he was too physical and strong for Pacquiao, would kill him to the body and all that. Pacquiao absolutely destroyed Hatton. Now people are saying Hatton was washed up, weight drained, trainer problems, blah blah blah. Hatton is 30 years old and only lost one fight, he's not washed up. Pacquiao was too fast and strong, and had a perfect game plan.
Point is, if you told me a year ago Pacquiao was going to do this I would call you insane. So the fact that he did do it is incredible and I don't see how people can discredit him.
Good post, agree with pretty much all of it. But u have to understand, boxing would'nt be nearly as interesting without haters. It must suck to be a Pachater though coz it sure is hard to find anything credible to hate him on...on another site the haters are sayin Pac has to be juiced, incredible.
Yup I think its just about even in terms of fighting other nationals. But Manny has won all on each nationality while Ricky doesnt.
Well don't talk as if this is like some sorta one-of-kind accomplishment. Darchy has beaten a who' who of nationals as well and that includes Filipinos. The Klitschkos as well. Pretty much any nonAmerican champ out there. I understand you're Filipino, but this thread is a bit too transparent. It should be enough that Pac is the undisputed #1 and the most exciting in the sport...but international bully? A little too much fanboy nuthuggn here dont ya think?
Where in the world have you read here that its a one-of-a-kind thing? :ugh:
Jeesh, dont get cute man. U know da reason why u put this thread up. Yay Pac the international bully, lets go lick his balls somemore. I aint hatin, check my posts and Im actually a big Pacfan myself.