The super division have little sense either when they have like only 7lbs separating them and sometimes even less than 7lbs, I wont complain when there is a big gap in the weight class.
200-220
This gives the guys on the shorter side of 6ft a proper chance because most of your Wladimir Klitschko, Anthony Joshuas etc are 6ft6 - 6ft9 and weighing 250lbs
If we were to lose a few super divisions to make this possible I'd welcome it.
What about instead of adding a new division, we stretch the range of a couple...
Heavyweight goes to 220+
Cruiser becomes 220
Light Heavy is 195
Super Middle becomes 175
Middle remains at 168
GGG deserves respect right now based on what he's already accomplished. However if he solidly defeats Jacobs, the last of the GGG deniers will be completely exposed as simply disliking him and thus extrapolating that dislike out to unwarranted attacks on his skills.
Bring on the rest of 2017.
Not surprised at all. I think DeGale is trying to be less of a showboating, loud mouth like he was early on, and is instead focused on making things happen in the ring. Floyd has been open that in order to succeed in his eyes, you have to have skills but also be flashy. I disagree. I think having the odd flashy fighter makes them stand out, but when everyone is trying to be a loud mouth, it just drowns everyone out. Plus, given how Floyd spoke to and about DeGale after the fight, is it any surprise?
DeGale should stay with Hearn, work through their differences, and focus on becoming the British heir to the Calzaghe/Froch throne.
I don't think anyone is going to say that two guys who go out there and dish it out isn't going to be seen favorably by boxing fans. Personally, I loved the DeGale-Jack fight, thought it was a wonderfully entertaining fight, and hopefully sets the bar for the coming year on in ring action. Sports fans like to see action, weather it's a nice catch in football, a big goal in soccer, a home run in baseball a slam dunk in basketball, or two men standing toe to toe and beating the crap out of one another while we cheer them on. It's what sports are built off.
Now, that doesn't mean that exceptionally talented men can't use rules, strategy, or tactics to their advantage and it instantly becomes boring. Quite the opposite in many cases. But at it's base, unless you're walking into a fight with a mindset and appreciation for seeing that - I think most casual boxing fans just want to see fireworks.
All boxing fans agree. Heck, most MMA fans agree. Basically anyone who follows, or has ever seen boxing agrees. This match up is a farce. Having said that, it would do huge numbers - and I would be one of them. Just like I watch the James Toney/Randy Couture fight, knowing full well it would be a first round finish for Couture. It still is entertainment.
The way I see it, MMA fans are loyal to McGregor to a fault. He seemingly can do no wrong. Lose? No problem. Walk away from the sport and get into a big twitter feud with Dana White? Makes him more relatable. So if he can bring 1m+ fans in, many of whom might not be boxing fans, it could be a great opportunity for a nice stacked undercard to excite the fans, and for casuals to appreciate the more nuanced nature of boxing as they see their golden boy picked apart.
As blatantly outmatched as this is for a PPV headline event, it does come with a massive potential upside for the industry as a whole. It's not a stretch to say that in the USA at least, MMA has upended boxing as the combat sport of choice for many viewers...an event like this might actually bring back a few casuals who moved on. Of course keeping them through months of drought like conditions in terms of booking big bouts might drive them away again, but at least in the immediate future, there is some potential good to come from the fight - even if the fight itself won't be one of them.
No. General rule of thumb, if I know their name, there is no way they are a bum. If you're at a local fair, there is some no name promotion with a ring putting on free show to anyone who's watching, and they introduce a man standing in one corner with a record of 1-16-2...THAT guy is a bum. If you've ever even whiffed a title, you're no bum.
I'll tell you a little secret about "cheating" when it comes to weight cuts - you might lose weight to make the weigh in, but it does you no advantage on fight night when you're depleted. More over, I've never heard credible sources say any of the men you mentioned have cheating in their weight cuts - and if they can cut the weight and still fight well 24 hours later, good for them. Cutting weight is as old in sports as weight restrictions themselves. As long as they are content with where they are, it's fine by me.
Problem with doing that is we take away a long lasting tradition of those existing ones that are steeped with so much history of legendary fighters.
I'd be more for keeping those ones and just getting rid of the ones that are like 4-5lbs to the next division.
Oh yeah, I mean from Minimum to Light Fly, to Fly and Super Fly, there are 4 divisions in the range of 10 lbs. That's excessive. I realize at that size, weight plays a big factor, but still, that's absurd. So I think we're both on the same page, it's time a lot of these divisions rode off into the sunset.
And I hear your argument that stretching the weight classification alters the legacy of some prolific fighters, but remember, a lot of the legends of this sport guys fought back before we had "Light" and "Super" weight classes. So we've already devalued the prestige of some of these weight classes. I mean look at Cruiser, that was introduced in the late 70's. Super Middle came in the mid 80's. We're talking about modifying some weight classes that are younger than some of the posters on this forum. If you wanted to keep LHW where is was, fine, there is legacy there...but you could shift Cruiserweight without it being a huge loss to boxing's history.
I feel like we already endured Celebrity Boxing on Fox in the early '00s. Anyone who is old enough and had the misfortune of watching that short lived experiment will attest; this will end up being a disappointment to their fans and to fans of boxing. All things being equal, I'd rather not have boxing make headlines for sideshow attractions like this.
This entire scenario is reminiscent the "will they/won't they" angle TV shows use to get viewers to watch for years to see if two characters get together...except in this story, we all already know they never ever will. Every time I see a headline about Floyd and McGregor all I see is "Slow day in sports! Click here to supplement our poor web traffic!"
Really what this comes down to is fanboyism. At some point in boxing fandom, people came under the impression that greatness is a limited commodity. If Boxer X is great, it must mean Boxer Y is somehow less talented. Assessing greatness, or talent, or skill, or athleticism is not a zero sum game. Acknowledging one boxer's prowess does not diminish the skills of another.
GGG has been exciting, dominate, and shows signs of true greatness - however he's never been tested against an A+ level fighter. Is that his fault? His management team? Other fighters? Promoters? You're foolish if you believe that you know 100% of what goes on behind the scenes - so assessing blame in that capacity is a fool's errand. All that can be said of him is that he has outmatched all of his opponents to date (although I still question the reasoning behind Brook's corner throwing in the towel).
Mayweather is a all time great. He fought some of the biggest names in the sport - regardless of when or what stage of their career - and he beat them all. He's one of the best defensive minded boxers to ever live. Personal opinion on the "excitement" of his fights is left to the viewer, but I for one don't require a KO to be thrilled.
It's just baffling to me that people have such a hard time seeing the top fighters in the world for what they are. It's almost as if a boxer who isn't your personal #1 best instantly becomes a bum. Well no, even if they are the second best, or third, or tenth, or twentieth, they are still one of the elite in this sport. Maybe it's because I have spent so much of my life attending small little local shows, but I can attest first hand, if you've ever seen someone on PBC, or HBO, or Top Rank, or Golden Boy, they have legitimate skill. And just because you like and are a fan of a certain fighter, doesn't mean that others aren't worthy of being mentioned along side of them - and respected - for their own accomplishments in the sport.
I think the sudden change of attitude has less to do with acknowledging his skill set and more to do with fans souring on him as a fighter. To squeak out of that fight (gift or otherwise) with a controversial W and then begin proclaiming he has nothing left to prove in the sport and talk about retiring can leave many fans with a bad taste in their mouths. Also, having such a close and/or controversial decision can and should hold an effect on their perceived place on a P4P listing. He's still phenomenal, one of the best in the world, but honestly after that showing, I'd have a hard time arguing he should be #1...an argument I would have easily stood up for not too very long ago.
I'm always torn about bouts like this. On the one hand, we demand boxers with laundry lists of defeated opponents before we grant them any credibility, on the other hand people get bored with rising prospects fighting 25 meaningless fights before they really step up to challenge someone of merit. But I think there has to be a middle ground between one of the biggest marquee names in the sport facing off against someone I've literally never heard of, and an endless parade of propped up journeymen wasting prime years of true stars. Frankly, I think this is obviously an attempt to pad his record a bit so he can stay in the boxing spot light, but not have to divert much attention away from his political career to focus on training.
At the end of the day, hopefully this Horn kid gets some credibility and uses that to parlay himself to bouts with more talent appropriate talent - or in the unlikely case of an upset - we'll have an overnight star as a 38 year old Pac rides off into the sunset.
Oh my goodness! I could not stop laughing at that first video of him fighting in some basement with like 20 dudes standing around watching them. I've never seen a BKB fight, and it was for a championship? I don't know how the money breakdown for this fight is set up, but RJJ should walk with 100% of the gate, and make this basement brawler pay out of pocket to have his name on the event.
I can't decide if this is more hilarious or embarrassing. It's obviously both, but which is the predominate feeling?
175 and not 147
Anyone else agree?
We have the lineal champ Adonis, Kov, Ward,Beterviev and now Badou is moving up Joe Smith, Barrera Clev this guy Oleksandr Gvozdyk (12-0)
iPretty soon we will have all these dudes fighting each other unlike the 147 division
I'd agree 175 is probably the best weight class right now. However I think I'd take HW over 147 - too many people in 147 trying to protect their names, the good matches are getting made. Meanwhile at HW, there is AJ, Wilder, Klitch, maybe Fury, and then a load of second tier talent who isn't as good, but fun fighters to follow; Parker, Hughie, Ortiz, Briggs, Haye, Stiverne, Puvlev, Ruiz, Whyte, Molina...
I disagree. I like all great fighters the same regardless of their weight class. Smaller boxers have more speed, better coordination and stamina as a general rule. I would love a great new heavyweight but not more than a great new middleweight or featherweight. GGG hits as hard for his size as any heavyweight and 24 straight KOs proves that.
I understand what you're saying, and the boxing enthusiast within me agrees with you. However, there is something magical about a heavyweight division that is loaded with big stars. It brings out not only casuals, it makes the sport a water cooler conversation topic. I miss being able to talk boxing in a bar without people looking at you blankly, I like when friends and family members who don't give a hoot about boxing get excited and watch to watch a fight. And that stuff happens occasionally at lower weight classes (May/Pac) but back in the 90's, every Tyson fight was MUST SEE TV. My entire neighborhood would throw block parties, have people over to watch the fight, generations of people glued to the TV - I would LOVE to see that again.
But to your point, as someone who enjoys watching a good fight, lower weight classes can put on barn burner fights that are amazing to watch.
Boxing is a lot like Hollywood right now. In Hollywood, there are a couple of actors who can command huge pay days based on their name value alone (Tom Hanks, Denzel Washington, Leonard DiCaprio) - everyone else has to be pair with the right co-stars or project. Like look at Robert Downey Jr, he's great, everyone loves him, but unless he's in an Iron Man costume, his movies aren't guaranteed successes - same thing with Johnny Depp and his pirate outfit. Matthew McConaughey is awesome, but his star vehicles don't do great unless it's with top level co-star talent and good directing.
So to take that analogy to boxing - who could command $15 to fight anyone under the sun? Canelo? Manny? Maybe Wlad if it's in Europe and gets a good distribution deal. But there are a LOT of possible fights where fighters could easily command $15m to be one half of the headline and it would be worth it. Tyson Fury can't walk back to the sport and say give me $15m, BUT if he faced AJ, or Wilder, or rematched Klitch, you bet he's worth paying out that kind of guarantee to. Neither Ward or Kovlev are worth that kind of scratch to face a #8 or #9 ranked guy, but they MIGHT be worth that to rematch. Kell Brook and Amir Khan: alone? No way. Together? Ehhh, yeah, a promoter might want to loosen the purse strings to put on that fight.
My point is, boxing is entertainment - and all entertainment; sports, music, movies, TV...the number of stand alone stars who can carry something on their name value alone is shrinking. Collaboration, combining, and loading events with so much star power people feel like they HAVE to watch is the new formula for success in getting those coveted entertainment dollars.
Honestly, I think he made a calculated decision. Of course he's a fighter, he thinks he sees something, he has the heart of a lion, he's going to get in there and fight to prove his the best. But I'm sure his management team was thinking, if he wins, great, he just dethroned the middleweight king. If he loses? No big deal - he jumped up two weight classes to face a guy who *some* people argue is the best in the world, can't be faulted for that lose. Unfortunately, I think the fight DID harm his reputation a bit more than they were anticipating. And not because his lose was so terrible, it wasn't, but rather because I think GGG was at the time looked like he was on the verge of becoming a bonafide international mega star - but over the last few months, I think people have grown tired of the "will they/won't they" story with Canelo, and it's left everyone a little sour on him and his team. As a result, in the court of public opinion, he's stock fell slightly, and as a result, Brooks' lose looks a little worse in the eye of the beholder to some fans.
Why are you bothered by him not lifting? Lifting is NOT the only (or arguably even the best) way to develop strength. Also, for what it's worth, what in his performances make you think he is lacking in power?
I would LOVE to see an era of mega star heavyweights. I think at the center, AJ is most likely to be The Man to carry the division (maybe the entire sport). He's got rabid fans in his home country, he brings KO power, and he's capable of conducting an interview that's interesting. Next up you have Wilder, another KO king, I'm less sure of his ability to carry a division, but he could be a great foil to AJ. Then with Wlad maybe/maybe not sticking around another couple of years, he could have one or two more big fights left where if he loses, the guy who beats him could get a solid bump in name recognition. And finally, one of the most interesting elements, is how Tyson Fury will fit in. Right now, he's just kind of floating around, who knows if he'll ever be back, but regardless there will be fans who say no matter who has the belts, they aren't the REAL champ until they beat Fury.
This AJ/Wilder/Fury era, let's say it last 5-10 years or so, it has all the makings and potential for an Ali/Frazier/Foreman level of compelling story telling. Cause remember, Ali was the greatest because he knew how to tell a story, make fans care, get them wrapped up in the saga. As of right now, there are a LOT of really interesting elements to the heavyweight division, we just need promoters to cultivate the narrative, and then have that kind of launching pad fight...
For the first time since Tyson lost to Lewis, I can say the Heavyweight division is probably the most interesting division - that when 205+ gets good, the world tends to tune in.
Mike Tyson. No question in my mind. If I had to hand out a second place trophy, it'd probably go to Foreman. But Tyson wasn't only strong, but in his prime he had that absolutely beautiful snapping motion with his arm. It was like he wasn't content to out power his opponent, he had to jolt them to sleep by whipping his arms. I mean the guy was KOing people in under 10 seconds in the amateurs. In his prime, I don't think there is a man in history who could take one freebie shot and not go down. He was just that kind of once in a lifetime hitter.
Fighting in the UK under Hearn's crooked judges has definitely helped him win all those tight points decisions since he turned pro.
I never said anything about judge's decision other than his gold medal win. My point was fighting in your home country can be helpful in terms of crowd support, not having to deal with travel concerns in the lead up to the fight, having people chant your name can be a very empowering experience...obviously. You're just looking for something to complain about rather than take part in the conversation as it was.
I think with proper promotion and advertising this could be a solid 1.3m event. If GGG had a larger fanbase this would be huge, but he's never been able to find traction when it comes to fans willing to shell out money. Having said that, this is easily the biggest possible fight in boxing right now (except the Floyd/Conor freak fight) - so I would hope it at the very least breaks 1m. If not, it's a bad oman for the sport.
I don't know. Full acknowledgement to his already impressive career and accomplishments, but it's hard to even speculate about HoF with only 8 pro fights under his belt. I mean, there are a number of fighters who have won titles in multiple weight classes and aren't in the Hall of Fame. Saensak Muangsurin (the man who is tied with Loma for winning a World Title in their first 3 fights) isn't in the Hall of Fame. Plenty of guys had long, illustrious amateur careers and aren't in the Hall of Fame.
But at the end of the day, does it matter? How many people here, and I'm asking honestly, because this is a pretty hardcore fanbase for boxing, how many have bothered to go to the actual Hall of Fame in Canastota? I'd wager, not many. Because it doesn't matter. You think any boxer anywhere, when training, was doing so thinking about one day having their name and plaque hung on some wall? No. They were doing it to win bigger purses, and rack up championships and fans. It's a profession, and while once in a while it's nice to get all dressed up and clap for a retired guy who did a lot for a sport, it's not like the getting in the HoF is the defining moment of these guys' careers.
I doubt they'd put Loma in without at LEAST 25 fights, and he would have to continue to keep a winning percentage and not fall into obscurity. But he could have maybe 5 or 10 more fights and become one of the top marquee names of the sport, and I think that means more to the fighters - and their fans.
No. Not even close. I'd argue that the winner of Thurman/Garcia will take the crown as kind of 147, Leaving Pac as either 2 or 3 depending on what kind of performances Brook and Spence tune in. Make no mistake, unless it's sheer dominance, Brook and Spence are fighting to earn the #2 in their division - nevermind P4P.
Hard to say. My general rule is if you want to crack the top ten, you had better beat someone IN the top ten. Otherwise, you're a gate keeper. He looked great tonight (or rather Pearson looked off, from beginning to end). He is going to get KO credit for tonight, but I'm not sure Pearson didn't have something effecting his vision - either way, even with tonight's win, he still hasn't proven to be a KO artist, he's not all that fast, and he's got a couple of glaring holes in his game. I'd suggest he's on the fringe of seeking fights with legitimate top ten guys, but he's got another year at least before I'd put him in a bout with someone of that class. After that, we'll have a better idea of where he stands on the leaderboard.
To be honest, no one. But that's not just reflective of boxing, it's kind of true of all athletes and/or entertainment stars. Remember when the Beatles couldn't walk down the street? The girls would flock to them, the adults would at least acknowledge their existence. I don't know who the biggest band or singer in the world is, maybe Beyonce? I don't think entire city blocks would flock to her, and I'd bet a solid portion of people over 40 wouldn't know who she was.
With the advent of Twitter and other social media, plus the non-stop news cycles that have replaced actual current events with sensationalism surrounding celebrity, it's hard to cultivate the aura anymore. People have too much access to the life and times of celebrity's lives - their flaws and successes are dissected too much, people just aren't impressed anymore. I've had the pleasure of living in Los Angeles, New York, and London, and I can safely say I've seen A-listers walking around, getting their lunch, doing errands, and nobody, NOBODY cares. You might get a couple people walking by sneaking a selfie next to them or something, but for the most part, I think the luster of fame has worn off for a lot of people - they're too busy dealing with their own lives to get worked up to the point of wanting to sift through a crowd of people just to touch some dude they've seen on TV a few times...
And honestly, that's probably a good thing.