BAREKNUCKLES

Tyson did burn out too fast. However, he was ultra-spectacular for a short period. I would say that Mike was the most exciting heavyweight in history. Does that make him an all time great? Maybe not. He didn't have some of the attributes that other great champions had, which is heart and durability. What he did have was phenomenal explosive speed and incredible power for a short time. He may go down as the 2nd best self promoter in the history of the ring, next to Muhammad Ali. Anyway, let's just say that Mike got old too soon.

A fighter should be judged on his whole career not his prime. You gotta take the good with the bad and if they choose to fight past their prime then critisism comes with the territory. Thats not to say that their ring accomplishments should be forgotten though. As for Roy Jones, he was being slammed way before he ever tasted the canvas because he ducked the fighters he was supposed to beat to prove his greatness, mainly Calzagi, Michalczewski and the rematch with Hopkins. But after seeing what Hopkins did to Tarver I now understand why Jones demanded a 70/30 split instead of the 60/40 Hopkins proposed. I agree that they should be judged on their entire career, but when it comes to their last two or three fights when they are old men, then that shouldn't really be taken into account on judging them. If that's the case, then what about guys like Thomas Hearns, who just fought recently? Is that the same Tommy from 20 years ago? The posts that really piss me off are the ones talking trash about Ali when he fought Holmes, or when he fought Berbick, like he wasn't a great fighter. He was a great fighter, he was just a former great fighter at that time. We all gonna get old and die, including the children on this forum. Did you hear that kids? You are going to get old, your wang is going to become a water spout, and you won't be able to see it because your belly is gonna hang over it. You're gonna lose your hair, and your old lady is gonna leave you sometime. If you are a fighter, you will slow down and you will get your ass kicked. When it happens, you will still want to be respected. So give it, if you want to get it. Take that paragraph and frame it. Put it on the wall someday when you no longer know everything.

The movie was excellent and it's a great story, and best of all, it's true. The depression era was an awful time in the U.S. People were actually starving to death. The movie is more about the real life trials of a common man more than it is a boxing flick.

Johnny Louise, eerrrrr...... John "HUGGY BEAR" Ruiz HE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE HOLDS, HE HITS, HE SUCKS.

HOLYFIELD-DOKES (The most action packed modern heavyweight fight) ALI-FRAZIER 1 AND 3 ALI-FOREMAN TAYLOR-CHAVEZ HOLYFIELD-BOWE 1 TYSON-DOUGLAS DURAN-BARKLEY DURAN-LEONARD 1

The fight was close, it was so close, it could be called either way. The only resolution was to have a rematch except Winky ran his mouth, and probably ruined his chances for a rematch. I believe Jermain will not hold the title long. He'll be beaten. No fix in my book, it was too close to be fixed.

Mike Tyson did make boxing what it is today. A side show for freaks with no skills. Boxing sucks today, and you know what, it sucked when Tyson was champ. Evander Holyfield was the only real bright spot on the heavyweight division since Ali retired. Tyson was a blight on boxing and was bad for the sport. Mike Tyson KO'd by Evander Holyfield Mike Tyson KO'd by Lennox Lewis Mike Tyson KO'd by Buster Douglas Mike Tyson KO'd by Kevin McBride Mike Tyson KO'd by Danny Williams He beat a bunch of nobodys. Francois Botha, A whole string of club fighters in the 80's, and when he finally faced a fighter with skills, his ass was grass. He had his ass kicked when he was in his so-called prime. He was good for two years, but against thugs. Take his monkey ass to the circus where he belongs. He hasn't even resembled a fighter for 16 years. He can sell tickets, but he can't fight and never could.

Mike Tyson gets too much press. He has sucked for a long time now. I'm tired of looking at him and hearing about him. My suggestion to him is that he move in with Michael Jackson and disappear.

These arguments are really pointless. Rocky Marciano beat every person that was placed in front of him in his career. He was not fun to watch. He had a strange, "crab" style of fighting. He was small yet a very powerful puncher. He was relentless in his attack and won many fights on attrition. To speculate on the outcomes of Marciano vs. Ali, etc is really pointless. The linear champions of the heavyweight division all deserve their props for their accomplishments. I have to put Rock withing the top 5 all time, but that's just a guess, and just my opinion. If we only had a time machine!

Mike Tyson could have danced like Ali. It would have worked as long as he was fighting in the heavy weight dwarf division. All fighters would have to be 5'8" and shorter. Mike didn't have the stamina to dance for too long. He's just too stubby. Heavily muscled fighters like Tyson generally don't have the athletic grace of slimmer fighters like Ali. Not to say Mike wasn't athletic, but he it's kind of like comparing a sprinter to a 400 m runner. They aren't the same type of cat. Anyway, Mike Tyson is washed up, and has been for about 15 years now, but the guy is smart to stay in the limelite for so long. I guess we'll see him whipping it out with Jenna Jamison.

That is a very good point. Alot of people put Ali as number one because he had the biggest mouth. He's certainly the most famous heavyweight ever and, I think, one of the top champs ever...but he was NOT the best. I would also like to make a couple of other observations: 1. He could be deragatory and hateful. He called Joe Frazier a gorilla because his of his real black skin and he did in front of Marvis Frazier. He said Frazier was ugly, that he was gorilla, and that he was "d-d-d-dumb." That sort of racial hatefullness was uncalled for, for whatever reason, especially not to promote a freakin fight, especially after Frazier had helped him, especially at that uneasy time in our nations history for African Americans, and especially when Frazier's son heard it all. (As a sidenote that also triggers a racial undertone, Ali spoke adamantly about the dirtiness of interracial marriage.) 2. Ali was no rocket scientist. He was a great fighter, but he got used as a pawn by some of the more militant forces that got him to say really stupid things (see interracial comment above) that I hope he didn't actually believe. Those things have always bothered me about Ali the man. And no, I don't hate him. I think he did alot for the sport and fighting wise he was truly a real good fighter. But I admit that I did feel somewhat vindicated for ole' Smokin' Joe when Frazier asked Ali years later "whose d-d-d-d-dumb now?" "Who w-w-w-won those fights now, Muhammed?" on some radio show. It was inappropiate, but I could understand where Frazier was coming from. O.K., everyone unleash on me... Joe Frazier should have grown a little thicker skin. Everybody knows that Ali's antics were used to hype the fight, and it worked. Ali also called Foreman the "mummy" and called Frazier the "Gorilla". There is no way on this green earth these were racial slurs. It's bullshit to even mention them as such. He also rubbed Ernie Shavers head. Was that racial too? Ali is not dumb, he just suffers from a debillitating disease. Frazier's speech is slurred as we speak. Joe Frazier is not smart enough to realize that the fights with Ali ended years ago. I seriously believe that. The man is clearly diminished. Ali is number one because no other heavyweight in history had the athletic speed, size, granite chin and ring saavy that Ali showed. He ruled the division from 64 until the late 70's. He was a gold medalist and a credit to the sport of boxing. I am most certainly saddened by the fact that he took too much punishment in the ring and has to live with the neurological results of it. Many fighters suffer from this. Muhammad Ali is the greatest of all times.

Thee has been some fast heavyweights. I can't think of any that quite matched up to Ali. Ali's real game was not necessarily foot speed, but foot work. He had great grace and effortless movement, hence the term "float like a butterfly" Ali almost looked like he did just float around the ring. He was the ultimate ring general. In my opinion, Jack Johnson had great foot work and skill inside the ring in terms of ring generalship. Ranking him up there with Ali in terms of footwork. Muhammad's style was often copied, but never duplicated. Because Ali was very relaxed in the ring, he rarely tired, particularly early in his career. He would dance all night, causing his opponents to grow very weary of chasing him in circles. Many of the things Ali did were technically wrong, but his reflexes and "rubbery" body allowed him to get away with things like pulling straight back from punches and holding his hands at his waist. There has been some fast fighters, but none as accomplished as the butterfly.

Roy Jones Jr. is not over rated. He is just old now, and that seems to happen to every fighter. It's a funny thing..... age. It seems to get the best of all of us. We can't really say that a fighter was over rated just because he fought a little too long and let father time get the best of him. Almost all of the great fighters have been guilty of that. Roy Jones Jr. was probably one of the most invincible fighters I have ever seen in his heyday. Muhammad Ali could not have been beaten when he was 27 years old unless he had been drugged. Nobody even came close. Marciano beat everyone he fought. What more can you say about that? Yes, he was strange to watch and awkward looking, but he KO'd lots of guys. If we want to talk about over-rated fighters, and in my mind, "over-rated" would mean fighters that never really lived up to their billing. These fighters to me would be: Wladimir Klitscko Gerry Cooney Mike Tyson Michael Grant Vinny Pazienza Michael Spinx (at heavyweight) Marvis Frazier These are some obvious ones to me. There are lots of them, but alot of them were blown up to be the next big thing, and then they faded into obscurity.

Marciano's KO over Jersey Joe Walcott is considered to be one of the most devastating single punches ever thrown in the ring.

Hitting a guy on the gloves shouldn't count. I don't care how energetic or stylistic Taylor looks while he's throwing, if the punches are blocked, they are blocked. The last round was Winky's. Winky landed more, and throughout the fight, showed ring generalship. Let's just say that Taylor survived on flashy punches landed on Winky's gloves.

I'm not saying that boxing is dead, but it's nothing near what it used to be. If you are talking about PPV buys, then you are measuring the sport by dollars, but not by popularity. In particular, you are not measuring it by participation. Just because a bunch of people buy a particular fight doesn't make it a mainstream sport. In 1970's, I guarantee you that people knew who the heavyweight champion of the world was. Hell, I don't even know who he is now because there are so many so-called champions. Is it Valuev?, Klitschko?, etc. The contender was too much reality show B.S. and the fighters weren't what I would want to see in a tournament. Put Delahoya, Floyd, Hatton, etc in a tournament, and you have something everyone would talk about. Let's see those big Russian guys go head to head, instead of ducking each other to milk the last ounce out of PPV gold. Boxing is about like the rest of the world. The few get it all, and the journeyman gets nothing. PPV robs the world of a very exciting sporting event. Do you think they purchase fights PPV in poor countries? Ali went to Zaire, he brought a great sport to the common people. Boxing is on ESPN when it fits around other sports. When it's college basketball season, it gets shuffled to another night or it's not on at all. In the 50's, the Gilette Cavalcade of Sports and boxing were THE event to watch. Guys like Kid Gavilan, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc, they were household names. When will we see the next Muhammad Ali? The next Sugar Ray? The next Roberto Duran? Never if it keeps up like it is. As long as you've got old fighters tied up with clever promoters, you are never going to see the best. Hopkins Tarver is such a match. I'm going to watch it Saturday, but I would rather see Ali-Foreman. I would rather see Hagler-Hearns. When will we see that again? Top fighters, toe to toe, gunning it out for all the marbles? I don't want to see Floyd pound some nobody who has no chance against him, some wannabe contender, conjured up out of thin air. PPV is the culprit in my estimation. The game has went down since it's inception.

Winky is a competitor, and competitors don't take defeat or draws well. Technically speaking, Winky beat Jermain in my book. Jermain has been very lucky to survive the last three fights. I'm sure Winky will change his mind, and take on Jermain again for a nice PPV gate. Knuckles

Any fight that John Ruiz was involved in. He fouls more than anyone I've ever seen, he sucks and should be banned from the sport, and forced to sell used cars.

I wouldn't be so quick as to take either the old Foreman or the young Foreman in that matchup. It could be either fighter within 3 rounds. You have to remember that the likes of Tommy Morrison outpointed George by hitting and moving away, much like Wlad did against Samuel Peter. He survived. Samuel Peter reminds me of a young Foreman. Foreman was really an awkward fighter when he was young, he was very amateurish, just watch some clips. Muhammad called him the "mummy" for a reason. When George was older, he was technically much better, but he was slow as molasses. Wlad is very quick for a big man. He has deceptively quick hands. Just ask Chris Byrd. Young Foreman vs. Wlad would be a toss up for the first 3 rounds. After that, I give the nod to George because his stamina is better than Wlad's. Actually, I believe that Wlad would unanimous decision an old George Foreman most of the time. However, if old George gets one big right hand in, it's over at any time.

Evander Holyfield by a landslide. Holy was as close to a modern sports hero as you could get, and a very nice person, not to mention a master boxer and true warrior in the ring. The best heavyweight champion since Ali, and I rank him in the top 5 all time.

i think u were on that crack pipe when u said holyfield was great and tyson wasnt. maybe in your eyes but u need to start readin the top 10 hw of all time post alot of ppl do and well known boxing analysis and usually he's ahead of holyfield. u need to sit yo ass down and actually watch all tysons fights before u make a judgement like that one u jus made Well moron, I did watch every fight Tyson fought, and I watched most of them live. He fought a bunch of fucking bums. He fought guys like Mitch Blood Green, and Carl the Truth Williams, Razor Ruddock, etc. They all sucked. He managed to decision some of these guys. The thing is if you want be called a great heavyweight you have to do more than just have a good offense. You need desire, heart and determination. If Mike couldn't KO a guy in 4 rounds, he didn't know what else to do. You have to win defining fights against great fighters. Mike Tyson did none of that. He folded against the first fighter that could really box. Mike was and still is, alot of bullshit hype. Look man, he had his ass kicked by James Buster Douglas, by Holyfield twice ( he bit his ear off because he was getting his ass kicked again). He was beaten senseless by Lennox Lewis. Holyfield was washed up when he fought Lewis but at least it was a competitive fight. Mike Tyson was just a money making machine for Don King. Remember the Peter McNeeley bullshit. He beat fucking bums to get the title. He doesn't even belong in the top 20 all time. I can name all sorts of fighters that would have kicked his ass. You can't be great if you are a quitter. You guys are always re-writing history when you say that Tyson didn't lose to Holyfield. Holyfield was a better fighter, a better role model and a better person. Mike was too busy raping and playing up his Dennis Rodman bullshit act to be a fighter.

Mike Tyson was washed up before he fought Buster Douglas. However, Holyfield was 36 years old when he fought Tyson and his best days were already past also. Basically, we had a Mike Tyson who was alot worse than anyone could imagine. Holyfield, even in the twilight of his heyday, just flat kicked Mike's ass pillar to post. As far as Mike beating Holyfield at any age probably would not have happened. I think a 28 year old Holyfield KO's a 23 year old Tyson. Holyfield was just too tough mentally. He was always in shape. Watch him fight Kawi at light heavy. It was like watching light weights bang it out for 15 rounds. Evander Holyfield was one of the great heavyweights of all time. Mike wasn't.

Jermain Taylor knocks his skinny ass out in 2 rounds. Tito is too small to fight a modern middleweight like Taylor. Taylor will more than likely be a light heavy or cruiser before his career is over. He could possibly wind up in the heavyweight division ala Holyfield.

Johnny Louise-- A Poem He hits and he holds with the greatest of ease..... He's that boring-assed fighter named Johnnie Louise He's awkward and backward, and you'd think he would pass.... But he stays in the game, kissin' Don King's ass. I thought he was gone when he was whooped by James Toney Now he's back again like day old baloney. I hate to watch him, and wish he would split Cause Johnny Louise, he ain't worth a shit!!!

James Toney is good enough to beat anyone in the heavyweight division on any given day. He's a master of the sweet science and a scientist in the ring. He's also a natural fat-ass which makes him a natural in the division. If he could only get some roids that they can't detect!

Some day, there shall rise a great white champion, he shall have a pointy head and shall knock out all other races Yes, he will wear the white hood like that dreaded non-white, Bernard Hopkins. Yes bretheren, turn from your skin color now!!! If you are brown or even have a good tan, ask almighty god to forgive you for being sub-human. Damn those that have banned Joe Mesi from his destiny! It's a damn conspiracy of the mogrels! This new champion shall rise in 2052, the 100 year anniversary of that great white man, Rocky Marciano. Until then sportsfans, keep up the hatred!! White power!!! White power!!!! Go Wlad, please don't fall down no more...... I'm embarrassed to be a white man after browsing through their crap.

Screw Mike Tyson. I'm tired of hearing about the guy. He was washed up in the late 80's, and I question how he really would have measured up against any good fighters in his prime. He never fought anyone worth a damn back then. He fought guys like Carl "The Truth" Williams, Razor Ruddock, Bonecrusher Smith, James Tillis. These guys sucked. Mitch Blood Green, give me a friggin break. Let's face it, he went down hill as soon as Cus died. Somehow we are supposed to feel sorry for this guy? He had the world before him, and he was too stupid to seize it. He lived the good life, and he ripped off his fans by being a fraud. He dodged Holyfield until he thought he was washed up and then got his ass kicked anyway. He found ways to make money by being a WWF circus attraction rather than a student of the game of boxing. He fought Lennox Lewis for the money, and never had a chance to beat him. He had his ass kicked by James Buster Douglas, which was the first time he faced a skilled heavyweight. Buster wasn't that great, to be honest but then again, neither was Mike. It's time to put the myth back where it belongs, in the fiction section of the library, because Mike Tyson being the greatest of all time definitely is science fiction. Knuckles

I dont believe foreman was an arm puncher no puncher who becomes heavyweight champ is an arm puncher . You can become heavyweight champion when you have the body of an Olympic powerlifter with the handspeed of Larry Holmes. George Foreman didn't move around the ring a whole lot, and he didn't have Ali like speed, but he had fast hands, and when you couple that with the un-natural power he had, people got hurt. I watched all of George's comeback fights and it definitely was a joy to watch a man that strong and that old just knock the crap out of young and tough fighters. He fought Adelson Rodriguez, and hit him so hard, the man's eyes were crossed for at least 5 minutes. He KO'd Gerry Cooney so hard that I didn't think he was going to survive the brutality of it. The man was an arm puncher, but what a set of arms he had. He looked more like a pro wrestler in the weigh in. I always thought that they also listed his height and weight a little low. It sure looked like a 300 lb gorilla in there rather than a 250 lb man. I always felt that Mike Tyson would have been just like Bert Cooper had he fought George. Bert Cooper quit early in the fight with George, and do you know what his excuse for quitting was? "He's a big man" was what Bert Cooper told an interviewer directly after a fight. How many times have you every in your life watched a legitimate heavyweight contender climb out of the ring and refuse to fight a guy because he hit too hard? Big George, he could be beaten, but you had better have a concrete chin and a big set of balls to climb in the ring with him!

Joe Louis fought a bunch of bums. He should be top 5, but not #1. Joe Louis defended his heavyweight title a record 25 times. He fought a string of fighters on a monthly basis and his victims became to be known as "the bum of the month club." However, one cannot forget that Louis KO'd James J. Braddock (after getting up off the canvas) to win the title, he beat Max Baer, Max Schmelling, Jersey Joe Walcott. Joe Louis was very effective as an older champion and challenger. He did lose to Marciano, but was still competitive even in that fight at an advanced age. Joe Louis was a credit to his race, the human race and was a credit to the sport of boxing. He is regarded by many to be the greatest heavyweight champion of all time or at the very worst a close 2nd behind Muhammad Ali. His career ring record was 68-3 with 54 KO's. He was a true champion in and out of the ring. Knuckles

Muhammad Ali Joe Louis Rocky Marciano Jack Johnson Evander Holyfield Jack Dempsey George Foreman Joe Frazier Lennox Lewis Mike Tyson Gene Tunney Sonny Liston Max Schmelling James J. Jeffries Jim Corbett That's my top 15, but that's debatable.