It is pretty easy to give Wilder 3 rounds aside from the rounds with knockdowns as Fury was not doing much with the opportunities he created in about 6 rounds. Sure he was out boxing Wilder and making him miss but Wilder was the one doing work, mostly ineffective work but a lot of judges value that sort of effort especially if the other guy is not doing all that much work themselves.
Giving Wilder 7 rounds like the one judge did would be pretty difficult to argue but 113-113 is pretty easy to get to. That is on Fury though because he could have made those 6 rounds a lot more in his favor than he did with just a bit more effort offensively.
That's precisely the problem though. You can get to 113-113 but you really have to be looking to give Wilder the benefit of the doubt on all close rounds. In other words you have to be a little biased.
You have to be kidding. Absolute worst case scenario for Fury is 115-111 (that's giving Wilder 3 rounds, two 10-8s and one benefit of the doubt). To give Wilder more than that you really have to be giving him ridiculous benefit of the doubt in close rounds. In other words, you have to be biased. Fury actually won the rounds he got knocked down in besides the knockdowns but not in a dominant way so he still loses both of those rounds 10-8. Besides all this, this is a robbery if there ever was one for one obvious reason: the judge giving Wilder 7 rounds was clearly paid off.
Anyone else disagree with this excuse?
Broner said it himself that people THINK he is not training or work hard, but the truth is that, he works his ass off. He was in some military camp for months putting in a full training camp and he was even quoted saying that he's one of the hardest workers in the game.
He knew exactly what was at stake for this fight. The win over Maidana would launch his stardom so he trained his ass off. Watch all of this training videos. He took this seriously. I don't buy the bull**** that he didn't take the fight or boxing seriously. He got his ass beat plain and simple, and a hypejob was exposed.
It's nothing to do with training. He didn't get tired. It's just that he doesn't have great skills - simple as that! You can be the fittest guy in the world but if you don't have skills it won't help you. Broner does have skill but his defence sucks - no head or foot movement whatsoever.
Ronaldo's still elite? I don't follow soccer, but I heard someone say Ronaldo's lost a step since his injury or something like that. Age or something.
Woot? Ronaldo barely even gets injured - he's been one of the best two players in the world for about 6 years. He's been dominant this year and will in all likelihood win the Ballon' dor and single handedly led portugal to the world cup with a hat trick when it mattered.
On topic - Maidana has had a good year but Messi has been better in football than Maidana has in boxing and football is a sport more people play of course, so perhaps Messi should win this award. Although I do accept by this logic Messi would win every year as he is arguably the best sportsman in the world.
Lomachenko would be a decent pro (although he's totally wasting his talent) but I'm not convinced he'd be a p4p fighter. Lomachenko's style is perfect for the way amateur matches are scored but it would also be a decent pro style. The most impressive part of Lomachenko's game is his footwork. However, the main problems with Lomachenko is that he's easy to turn at times and sometimes his head movement is very easy to time. His style also makes it a little too easy to catch him coming in at times. This isn't a major problem in the amateur ranks but in the pros where there will be rangy and powerful counterpunchers it will get him hurt. I'm not convinced he'll fix his habits that will get him caught in the pros at this stage and I think any rangy clever boxer with decent speed would give him major issues. He'd probably be a bit too predictable for a 12 round fight against someone with the aforementioned style. Whenever he comes forward he does the same thing and it wouldn't be a big ask to catch him with a hard check hook when he tries to cut off the ring. Since headgear won't be worn taking such punches from pros and not amateurs will cause problems. Don't get me wrong, all amateurs have flaws but at Lomachenko's age I don't see him correcting them quick enough. Another potential problem for Lomachenko is uppercuts - an underused tool in amateur boxing. At times Lomachenko is a sucker for them.
so what went wrong for dave?
Well he had a bottle in his hand making his right less powerful. But also he didn't get into the proper stance for good weight transferral for the right hand while throwing the left hook. Other than that Chisora is a big dude with a hard chin unlike most people on the street.
Yeah I think the bottle would've reduced his power, maybe not enough distance between them to get a proper swing either. Surprised the old trainer was taking his shots though.
Well nobody got any great punches in anywhere due to things we have mentioned. When Haye punched the trainer he was moving backwards and that trainer was pretty big, thus he probably had a solid jaw. I don't think we can debate whether Haye is a hard puncher as he clearly is, but if you watch he doesn't get proper weight transferral on any of them. I guess in an adrenaline filled situation your stance and punch technique don't come to mind as much!
This guy from Leicester talking like he knows the streets. :lol1:
I'm not talking like I know 'the streets'. I would have thought it is obvious that Chisora has a better chin than most guys. What have I said that would imply I think I 'know the streets'. Besides, trying to downplay where a guy lives is pathetic. Someone living in Compton could easily say to someone living in Glasgow 'you think you know the streets' but it's just pathetic.
LOL Chisora wasn't the mandatory, you can't be a mandatory after officially losing a fight. Vitali said he chose to defend his title against Chisora because he believed Chisora really beat Helenius. I'll ask again, is he an idiot for believing that?
I've had dudes try that with me but I'm quick enough to dodge the first punch and retaliate tenfold. Most people can't fight and you can see their sh!t coming from a mile away.
I don't care how quick you think you are, trying to stand like a man and not flinch is not a good strategy in a street fight where you don't know who you are up against. The guy could get up in your face then nut you (you won't dodge this) or could even stab you. To prevent this you throw shots at the jaw as hard as you can. If you know how to fight the other guy shouldn't see it coming and will be sparked cold.
You never seen a dude get in another dude's face to get his respect without it turning into a fight? LOL Where are you guys from? If somebody gets up in my grill I don't flinch I stay real calm and if he tries to do something then I decimate him. You only punch first if you feel threatened.
If someone comes anywhere near me trying to get my respect I throw a hard one-two to the jaw putting as much body-weight as possible into it. If you don't they can get theirs off first.
This is true. People are calling Haye a ***** because of the bottle incident but he didn't deliberately use the bottle he threw a punch - the bottle prevented full power because it smashed in his hand. If he didn't have the bottle Chisora would have been rattled as Haye is a massive puncher (one of the best p4p), it was barefist and Chisora probably wasn't expecting it.
Yeah, and it doesn't even takes a full super punch to KO the other guy, just a clean punch to the chin and the fight is over, even if it's not the hardest punch you've ever thrown.
Yep, but best to try get a hard one in incase you're fighting a monster lol.
Anyone who knows how to punch properly (fast, straight and transferring full bodyweight into the punch) and gets their punch in first on the chin will win in one punch pretty much guaranteed. This isn't a joke. If you clock a guy on the chin without gloves with proper technique he's going to be properly knocked out.
if he can catch him...if not, Roy wins enough rounds and beats Haye on points...and if Haye can't catch him, Roy looks good doing so
I disagree with this. A guy with that sort of size advantage would catch Roy. To reiterate what I said before, Roy isn't as elusive as he is made out to be. Haye would land some leather, particularly since Haye is extremely fast and athletic for a heavyweight. Roy's chin was good enough to take some decent punches and is not as bad as some make it out to be but it isn't good enough to take Haye's punches that's for sure. Haye is a bigger version of Roy in many respects. Obviously he's not as good but he's similar stylistically. The thing many people, particularly those who haven't boxed themselves, don't understand is that it doesn't matter that much if a you don't get hit clean by a bigger guys punches. Over many rounds, he will wear you down anyway unless you're Nicolino Locche or prime Pernell Whitaker so that literally every punch misses. Roy was neither of these and would take some clean shots or at least shots on the gloves, elbows etc and then cleanly later in the fight. You've gotta remember that Haye's chin problems and stamina problems would not be issues against Roy as much as they would against other heavyweights. His chin would be no issue at all.
boy you got whiney real quick didnt you?
the only overrating going on right now is by a Haye fan talkin about beating a prime Roy Jones
You thing I'm a Haye fan? haha why because I'm English? I don't mind the guy but I'm not exactly a fan. I'm actually a much bigger fan of Roy Jones. However, I don't feel the need to overrate him like everyone else on this forum. As I've explained in my edit, your original point was ridiculous. It is akin to saying that the best defensive fighters of their time - people like Whitaker, Locche, Pep and Mayweather - would not be knocked out by the heavyweights of their time. After all, if the people in their weightclasses could not catch them how could heavyweights?
Roy could beat every HW except the Klitschkos and maybe Haye.
Roy is great and everything, and Haye is clearly nothing on him all time P4P, but 'maybe' Haye? I'm sorry, but Haye would destroy Roy at HW. Also, you would not beat every heavyweight. Granted the division sucks, but Roy's chin combined with the fact that his power wouldn't bother most heavy's and the fact that he was not unhittable would mean he'd get iced in at least some of the fights against current top heavies.
you must have not watched a prime Roy Jones then...there were middleweights that had problems catching him and you're telling me Haye would?
This reply is absolutely ridiculous. By this logic Pernell Whitaker, Nicolino Locche and Floyd Mayweather should be/ should have competitive with heavyweights and wouldn't get knocked out because they don't/didn't get caught much at the lower weights so the higher weights would be no problem. By this logic Floyd Mayweather would survive 12 rounds with Haye. After all, he's got better defence that Roy did.
Keep convincing yourself that Roy Jones was the best thing since sliced bread and that he could beat every heavy apart from the Klitschko's. He only beat John 'The slow man' Ruiz. Roy was a great fighter but people tend to overrate him a bit. Judging by what people say on this site Roy Jones beats everybody in history (every weight class) 120-108 or wider or knocks them out. Lennox Lewis was slower than Haye. Surely Roy could just evade all his shots and get a decision then?
If you mean current era then no. I think Manny had a chance to beat him on the cards a few years ago but not really by outboxing him even if he could do it. Past eras? Absolutely. Some people will flame me for this but I think Floyd would be an easy night for Hearns. He'd completely outbox mayweather and either get him out of there at some point or win easily on the cards. Historically though there aren't that many others who could do it.
And he should have an L on his chest from Castillo in the pros. That 0 ain't ****.
Amateur records don't translate to pros perfectly. Hell, my old coach had a better amateur record (although he only won Commonwealth gold never fought in the olympics) of 90 and 4. Was he better than Floyd? Not even within a billion light years he was a fringe titlist for a few fights. As someone has already said, 3 rounds does not give Floyd thinking time.
(In no particular order) Kid Gavilan, Marvin Hagler, George Chuvalo, Sugar Ray Robinson, Jake Lamotta, Oliver McCall, Gene Fullmer (the Robinson shot would have stopped literally anyone - probably the best punch of all time - and the other stoppage of his career was nothing to do with chin), Harry Greb, James Toney, Tex Cobb, Laporte (as mentioned), Tua, ODLH, McCullough, Hopkins (though it doesn't get tested much so this one is iffy), Holyfield. Hell there are countless fighters with granite in their jaw.
A lot of the old timers mentioned we don't have film evidence for though - just records. In any case, the person with the best chin of all time will be some unknown - you need more than a chin to be a well known boxer.
If I had to pick a top 3 of those I've actually seen on film I'd have to pick Toney (simply because he's basically never been in significant trouble despite fighting heavies when he's a natural mw/smw), Hagler and McCullough.
Although relatively inexperienced Vitali took Lennox to life and death match - something no one did before (maybe Holyfiled was the closest of doing so). I don't count 2 KOs..
He proved he is in the same league as the bests ever. He lost the fight but they were pretty much equal in that fight (lennox's words).
As for Rahman if he knew when to retire he would get much more credit for KOing Lennox.
This is horse ****. Vitali is so overrated by some people. Let me explain:
1) People say Vitali is one of the best punchers ever. These same people know nothing about boxing because Vitali is nothing more than an arm puncher. Wladimir is a good puncher but Vitali isn't. Lewis was shattered, doesn't have a particularly good chin and Vitali's clean shots were not doing anything, which proves he does not have one punch power by any standards.
2)People also say that Vitali has one of the best chins ever, which is also a load of **** as nobody but Lewis has ever tested it, and he was wobbled a few times by a tired Lewis in their fight.
3)People like yourself think that a relatively good performance against Lewis somehow puts him up there with the greats. Winning 4 rounds out of 6 does not mean that he would have won a 12 rounder. If anything Lewis was looking the better and was landing disgustingly hard punches on Vitali by the sixth (although Lewis looked tired too, giving further credit to the notion that he wasn't at his best).
4)People look at punch stat numbers and conclude that Vitali has a good defence. Well, I'm sorry to reveal that Vitali has an absolutely terrible defence; if he wasn't so tall people would see this. The reason people don't land much is because they suck or are way shorter and don't know how to get inside. When Vitali fought Lewis he got hit with 49% of Lewis' power punches, 43% of his jabs and 46% in total, and he got hit with many absolute bombs. Getting hit with that percentage of power shots in any circumstance proves that his defence is absolutely horrible when he fights somebody good/his own size.
5) People can say what they want, but Lewis clearly wasn't himself that night and wasn't in his prime either. Lewis had a history of avenging defeats and he should, in my opinion have avenged his poor performance against Vitali because Vitali is in fact very limited - the opposition just isn't there to show it.
LMAO Wikipedia "Price proved to be an absolute bum with a glass jaw when on 23rd February he took on old, overweight, under-motivated American Tony Thompson and got knocked out in the second round."
I'll compare all my attributes to different fighters just to make the thread a bit more exciting:
Chin: George Chuvalo/ Marvin Hagler
Power (p4p): Julian Jackson
Speed: Prime Roy Jones jr
Stamina: Henry armstrong.
Defence: Floyd Mayweather jr
Reflexes: Nicolino Locche/ Prime Roy Jones jr
Combinations: JMM
Jab: Larry Holmes
Left hook: Joe Frazier
Boxing brain: Bernard Hopkins/ Floyd Mayweather jr
Footwork: Sugar Ray Leonard
Agility: Pacquiao
Heart: Muhammad Ali
Experience: Sugar Ray Robinson
Reach (p4p): Thomas Hearns
Head movement: Whitaker
Counter-punching: James Toney
Uppercut: Prime Tyson
Right: Thomas Hearns
man oh man....the fanciful notions of real fights here beat out some of the wonderful people at another popular site where such bon mots were posted: "Calzighe would kill about 4 people in a real fight...even a 105 pound boxer would kill an untrained 200 pounder!" Do I need to go on? NO and NO and can you say broken hands?
To reiterate, a real fight has no rules. Who gives a **** what size you are. Baseball bats, friends and knees to the groin are great equalisers. This is the reality of real fights.
Boxing is a sport. MMA is a sport.
None of it is a REAL fight.
If you want to see a REAL fight then either enlist or visit East St. Louis.
QFT. This real fight talk is BS. MMA is just as fake as boxing. If you're in a real fight you don't use Brazilian ju jitsu you use weapons, mates and groin kicks. I don't think these are allowed in MMA.
It's true what Jon jones said though about mma being more related to actual fight u would encounter if u were out in the streets. U can't be like yea I'll fight u but no kicking though lol.
Yep but this is irrelevant since you also can't say only 1 vs 1. You also can't say no spitting. You also can't say no kicking in the balls. You can't say no headbuts. You can't say no weapons. You can't say that you can't kick a man while he's down. Anything goes, in which case it doesn't matter if you are an MMA fighter or boxer it just matters how many mates you have and just how far you are willing bend the rules of honour.
There are 3 guys I firmly believe would have beaten Mayweather in some of the weightclasses he has touched. Feel free to add or subtract if you disagree
135- pernell Whitaker- reflexes just as fast if not faster than May's but better defensively as well as being more indept at fighting from close range. Great fight with pernell getting the Majority decision
140- Aaron Prior- really good power/ speed with great ability to absorb punishment along with a non stop hurricane fighting style. Would be a closer fight with Mayweather being forced to dig deep to a possible late stoppage loss (my opinion...don't hit me )
147- Sugar Ray Leonard- closer fight than many would think with Leanord coming out victorious. Leonard had great speed of hand and foot that was matched by his ring IQ along with knockout power. UD Leonard
154- Terry Norris- strangely this is the fight I'm most sure about partly do to 154 not being Mays ideal weight but also do to Norris's great skill and having recently marveled at his skill in his fight with Curry. Along with this I don't see May having the power to worry Norris. Win Terry Norris 9th round Tko
Hmmm. The only one I think would be favourite against Mayweather here is Ray Leonard - not on account of him being better more on account of his natural size advantage and his better power. Even so, Mayweather is a better boxer than even Leonard was and, contrary to what many thing, I think this would be a close fight. SD Leonard.
I'm not sure about the others, but I don't think any would be strong favourites against Mayweather. And wth is this about Pernell being better defensively lol that simply isn't true. Better reflexes Maybe but he didn't get hit any less than Mayweather did. I don't think Pernell is as good at close range either really.
Also, where the hell is Hearns? Hearns is basically the only boxer in history who I'd give Mayweather very little shot against (assuming competitive weights).
What does money have to do with this, all what is stated is Jones would destroy Floyd in a REAL fight.
All this real fight talk is absolute bull****. "A boxer would get the **** kicked out of him in a real fight where you can do anything". This is a contradiction. The last part of this sort of quote is my point. You can do anything - weapons, spitting, kicking, biting, kicking in the bollocks, smashing bottles over heads, guns, you name it. Let me tell you if an MMA guy is trying to take a boxer down and gets kicked in the balls or smashed in the head by a bottle by the guys mate it doesn't matter than he's an mma fighter.
Next I'm probably gonna hear responses about honour and **** like that. Let me tell you if I get into a situation in which I am out of my depth I will resort to kicking in the bollocks etc, in which case size/skill doesn't matter.
I like watching both of them fight because they don't clinch, wrestle, or maul. They use speed and boxing skill and accurate fast clean punches to get the job done and they fight clean. I find fighters like Hatton,Mosley, Berto, Molina, Ward, and Hopkins who are often holding or mauling or holding and hitting to be boring and they slow down the action.The referee has to come in and pull these octopuses off the other fighter. I like to watch Mayweather more than Broner because he is the master and Broner is not at his level. Broner seems to hit harder and go for the KO more. I like watching both of them.
WHAT? Mayweather clinches a lot. I'm not knocking it - it's a legitimate defensive tactic. He doesn't clinch as much as Ward or Klitschko, who both clinch way too much and consequently their fights are bore fests. Nevertheless, Mayweather does clinch.