I don't think some dude who has watched a millon fights for a 100 years has the right to bash someone for not brawling....like does that mofo know what it feels like to get hit flush in the face or or in the chin?!?...does that mofo know what it feels like to have his vision blurred from head shots?!?...WTF do he know besides who beat who and when?!?....not a fuking thing imo....he's no better than me or some other dude who love the sport and come on here and talk our 2 pennies...dude just wear a suit and tie and gets paid to be a fan...thats all he is!!...no expert!!
I agree with your criticism of Merchant's favoritism towards fighters that brawl. People forget (commentators and fans alike) that punches cause actual physical damage. Punch resistance thresholds vary from fighter to fighter. That's why I never criticize a fighter for not brawling enough etc.
Secondly, I think that the subjective way in which boxing matches are made and judged leads to more opinionated commentary.
I'm still trying to see how exactly it's Mosley's fault that these supposed great/amazing fighters keep dusting him of & offering him a paycheck to whoop his a$$. I don't blame him 1 bit. What's he supposed to do? Turn down millions??
These dudes are so unrealistic. He's getting his biggest paydays while being clearly out of his prime. I would do the same thing.
Two, you guys forget that this is boxing and punches can cause serious damage. Swinging for the fences and brawling when you don't have the ability to do it effectively anymore can get you hurt (especially against upper echelon fighters).
It is funny how you guys always bring up cheating as if boxing is some sort of faultless and pure sport. Fighters along with their handlers are constantly looking for advantages. Unfortunately the fighters with the most "juice" (big promoter, cross over appeal etc) often times get advantages not entirely based on what they do in the ring. These advantages however miniscule can and do influence fights and subsequently a fighters career.
its mosely. lol @ anyone who says cotto.
I give cotto alot of credit for being an outstanding fighter but although I am mosley fan (obviously not being immuned to being biased) I feel that shane has been underrated recently. His fight with miguel took place when cotto was Pprime while shane was 36 years old. How many fighters, in the history of the sport, 147 pounds and below (who have depended on speed and reflexes) have fought competitively against elite young comp at the age of 36!
It's also funny how people assume that Forrest and Wright are a walk in the park. Who's to say that many of the top fighters today(including Mayweather) don't lose to those two also.
I think it's real close until you factor in that career-reviving, upset KO win for Mosley over Margarito. A cut above Cotto's win against Tony.
Cotto fought solid opposition at 40 and left undefeated. Mosley's comp at 135 wasn't so impressive. At 154, both are bleh. It comes down to welter and Shane Mosley defeated a prime Oscar and then upset Antonio Margarito ten years later. I'd like to factor in the use of performance enhancers but, unfortunately in today's sport, I'm willing to bet a majority of Mosley's opponents were cheating as well.
His wins at 154 were bleh not necessarily his comp. Winky Wright is arguably an ATG big 154.
What most people forget about Shane's career at lightweight is the fact that unlike cotto and many other young big name fighters, shane didn't have a big promoter. He didn't have the same pull to fight the bigger names in and around the division. To make matters worse, because he was so dominant he was flat ducked and seen as too much of a risk. Interesting note: until about the time shane one the lightweight title (when he was about 26), he lived in his parents garage, while working as a cashier in KMART. To keep things in context, compare that to the starts of the De La Hoya's and Cotto's of the boxing world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvTmhpP5HE0&feature=relmfu
It's funny how sound he was early in his career. Anyway, thanks for the memories; my favorite fighter growing up
Having a significant weight advantage can be very serious; hence the reason why weight classes exist. I don't know for certain if Salido did it on purpose or not, but his size was an obvious advantage during the fight. Salido was crashing in with reckless abandoned. I'm willing to bet that had he made the limit and weighed within the normal range on fight night, the fight would've been completely different.
It's beyond me how anyone can score this fight for Garcia.
1) Not only did Herrera control the fight with his jab, if you watch closely he got the better of Danny in exchanges (left hooks, rights, etc).
2)There was a point where Herrera would throw and land a power punch to open some rounds; they went unnoticed because Herrera's not a big puncher (fighting in PR didn't help either).
3)Herrera's known for getting marked up. His face was relatively clean, especially the right side; with the left hook being Danny's favorite and most reliable punch, that speaks volumes.
4)Herrera controlled the fight going either forward or backwards.
I wouldn't say it'll be a mismatch, but Dwyer does make a decent case.
Years ago, when the Mosley-Wright fight was announced, I thought to myself, "Winky struggled with Bronko McKart and loss to Harry Simon and Fernando Vargas; Shane should take this." Boy was I wrong. Styles makes fights man. The unexpected does happen in boxing.
i really find it funny how much the exact same was said before Rigo - Donaire, people were saing he is chinny, was floored numerous times against medicore opposition, struggled heavily against Cordorba and and and...yeah yeah Lara is no Rigo but its the same exact past-history, not that i totally disagree with you, im not critizising just wanted to say how funny the resemblance is :boxing:
Good point. Donaire was the favorite going in. Having watched the sport for some time, Canelo getting schooled isn't exactly a stretch.
Not really that paper title doesn't matter I never said it would be a mismatch like you fckng idiots lol what retards "this a mismatch easy work for lara, if the judges don't rob him doe" imbeciles
You've been talking as if it'll be a mismatch in the other direction; you just didn't use the word mismatch.
If a blowout does happen in either direction, it wouldn't surprise me. Things like that happen.
That's BS. Lara and Canelo both fought Angulo just months apart and look at the God damn difference. Lara had to get of the floor twice and go life and death with Angulo and the fight was even when he hurt Angulo's eye after 10 rounds. In total contrast Canelo beat the hell out of Angulo every single round of the fight until the ref had seen enough of the one sided slaughter and stopped the fight. Canelo was never even hurt. Canelo gives Lara a masterclass ass kicking and stops the weak chinned Cuban and I'll bet my money on that.
The circumstances surrounding both fights were completely different.
Supposedly, Lara was told that there was a rehydration limit. As a result, on the night of the fight, Angulo outweighed Lara by at least 10 lbs. For a fighter like Angulo that relies on his ability to physically impose himself on his opponents, that's a huge advantage; it was clearly evident in the fight. Angulo was getting rocked, but still relentlessly plowed forward with reckless abandoned.
Don't be fooled. What Canelo and his team did on the day of the weigh in was planned. They had absolutely no intention on making the limit. In doing so, Canelo didn't drain himself attempting to lose that extra pound; this allowed him to be fresher and stronger than Angulo; who actually intended on making the limit.
that doesnt change anything, that fight was supposed to be a mismatch since the moment it was signed, lara was supposed to do an easy job of angulo and it didnt, the fight was a mismatch no excuses for that...
If it's true, even if Lara and his team were being naive, does make a difference. The biggest differences in Lara's and Canelo's respective fights with Angulo were: Angulo showed more respect for Canelo's power, and Canelo was able to physically impose himself on Angulo. I don't know, but being 10 lbs lighter might affect your ability to do that.
In other news Usain Bolt has paid all his 100m competitors to let him only have to complete 80m before finishing.
Roger Federer has paid the rest of the top ten tennis players to make sure they can now only play with their weaker hand
And finally Lewis Hamilton has paid his fellow Formula 1 racers to ensure they are only allowed to drive Fiat Punto's while he stays in his Mercedes F1 car
Hahahaha, and unfortunately, all too true.
People r making a big deal about this not only because Lin is Asian, but because this same guy has led an underachieving Knicks team (missing it's 2 biggest stars) to a 5 game, and counting, winning streak. Most importantly, he was just a few games away from being cut for christ's sakes. Extreme underdog stories are always going to gain notoriety (Buster Douglas defeating Mike Tyson, the 1980 US Hockey team et al). Although him being Asian, and playing in the nation's largest media market has added fuel to the fire, his play as well as the circumstances surrounding it would've have made this a big story regardless.
..
Likewise :fing02:
The thing is, is that Dawson is one of the most versatile fighters in boxing. Yes he looked one dimensional against Pascal, but that was just one of those off days that we shouldn't really use to gauge how much skill or variety Chad actually has. He showed variety in both hands in the Johnson fights, Adamek, Tarver fights ect.
And when you think about it though, Jermaine is a left hand dominant fighter. Everything he does, is set up off of his left hand and Hopkins could never fully solve that puzzle. I think it was a combo of all things. The jab, speed, movement, flurries ect. If he just had one of those things, then yes Hopkins would have cracked his code and schooled him the way he did Pascal but the fact that he showed variety in his arsenal, gave Hopkins more than one things to think about and had him confused as to what would happen next. The thing with Dawson, is that he brings more issues to the table because he has all of this, and is a very big 175 pounder. Yes he fades and the fact that he takes time off of rounds worries me, but that would mean Hopkins would have to come back late in the fight and what if Dawson corrected these issues? That's another thing you have to think about with these young fighters. They can correct their mistakes in training and this is the BIGGEST fight of Chad's career. He always showed up in his biggest fights (Adamek, Tarver ect).
You know it..lol but yea i think hes just talking when he says he'll be extremely busy. I think it will be a tactical fight that is close, with Dawson piling up enough points in the early rounds to take something like majority or close unanimous decision. Hopkins has avoided him for years until he started to look vulnerable but if Chad clears up those mistakes, then this could be a horrible miscalculation that could end in disaster for Bernard.
Dawson is one of the few well rounded young fighters. He is light years ahead of Taylor in terms of boxing ability. He's also bigger than Taylor.Hopkins must know something we don't know because I think this fight is going to be a tough one for him.
Nope...as a matter of fact, I know a guy who fought RJ and sparred many times with Floyd and he told me RJ was MUCH faster than Floyd...if u watch RJ at his best, 15 punch flurries, u can see his speed is as fast as ANY man 20 or 25 pounds lighter...
Prime Roy was a freak of nature. Sparring with him must have been a real experience.
He won the fight with repeated low blows. I watched both the fights with SRL. I think that SRL had an off night that night to be honest. I was really thought that I was gonna be blown away with how much people talk about him. I'm not trying to downgrade any of his accomplishments, I just kinda expected to be in awe of his skills. When I look at the Mayweather Gatti fight I am blown away, when I look at Paquiao fights in the last few years I am blown away (except for the fight with Mosley, and Clottey) Maybe I just built him up to high in my head.
When you mention watching Mayweather's fight with Gatti, as well as Pacquiao's fights (with the exception of mosley and clottey) and being blown away, you have to remember those fights featured A class fighters (close or near to their prime) against over matched opposition. No matter how skillful you are as a fighter, you're not going to "arturo gatti" (RIP) a prime Ray Leonard; unless he's totally unprepared, fighting way above his weight class, coked up lol etc
I don't think he will get fights with either cotto or margs. I will like to see him fight berto though. In my opinion, even at this stage, shane can beat him.
doesn't hit as hard as sugar shane.
I'm not too sure about that one. I'm not saying that Alvarez is going to win, but at this point and time I'm pretty sure that Canelo is faster, stronger, and a far more dynamic and fluid puncher than Shane was in his fight with Mayweather.
That will be very difficult. Rarely do you see fighters in the lower weight classes fight at an elite level in their late 30's much less in their 40's. Speed and athleticism are more of a factor.
Also, PBF has been fighting since he was a little kid. All that sparring and training in general has to take a toll. Whereas, Hopkins, in comparison< started fighting later in life.
Tito would knocked Shane out.
I highly doubt that. Shane mosley has very under rated boxing skills and a solid chin. He would've beaten Trinidad to the punch consistently. Mosley isn't he respects Trinidad's left hook. A one eyed, 14 fight David Reid was giving Trinidad hell for 7 rounds just off of speed alone.
Again, Shane Mosley would have been the one who would have to be defensive minded. Mosley was unable to trade with Forrest at all...not because of Vernon's defense but because he couldn't figure out how to heck to get past that reach without getting smashed. Same with Winky. Except Winky would just stand there and block when he felt like taking a blow. But Shane struggled to get past his reach as well. Furthermore, Tito was not bad defensively. I think people are looking at the faded version. Could Shane counter? Yeah. Would Shane get hit? Hell yeah.
I agree, the use of their reach was significant in their respective victories, but vernon's intelligent use of clinching was also very instrumental. In the first fight, after mosley started to regain his legs, vernon started fighting more off the back foot using the jab and clinching, while also being selectively aggresive. Although, Trinidad circled at times, I don't ever recall Tito fighting off the back foot like forrest did, especially against an opponent that he had seriously hurt. Trinidad wasn't terrible defensively, but he didn't posses a better defense than Wright nor was he as durable.
It should also be noted that,even in his prime, trindad was vulnerable to flash kd's, if their fight went the distance, which would've been likely, that would be very influential in the outcome of the fight.
he couldnt fight back or outbox a skinnier and less strong man in forrest....
:rolleyes:
So Trinidad fights from the outside with a jab. He also employs tactical clinching like forrest.
David Reid a one eyed fighter who fought a wopping 14 fights gave Tito fits, but Shane Mosley a more durable, faster, experienced, and skilled fighter has absolutely no chance ok. lol
That's weird. Tito was a lot taller than Shane and rangier. Therefore, the person who needs to be defensive minded is Shane...not Tito.
How is that weird. Shane's fights against Wright and Forrest would've been completely different if Wright didn't have that damn near impenetrable peek a boo defense and if forrest didn't strategically clinch, while also using his other skillful defensive abilities. Trinidad was more offensive, while being a more dangerous puncher than both wright and forrest, his killer instinct and offensive style would've provided mosley the opportunity to counter.
Silly argument. Yeah, he gave Tito fits...then had his career ruined and got dropped four times.
Ruined because he was destined for ruins. The guy had 14 fights and had no business fighting a fighter like trinidad at that point in his career. He also had a degenerative eye problem.
My point is, Reid because of his speed gave Trinidad obvious difficulties. In fighting Mosley, Trinidad would have been presented with a fighter that not only possessed speed but many other attributes that reid did not posses.
So to assume that Mosley would not give Trinidad a tougher fight is silly.
Could be. Agree to disagree on this one, my friend. Great debate.
Sure. Like wise. On another note,I really wanted to see Trinidad make a comeback against someone like Pavlik (before Martinez got to him).
You said it...long, rangy...
Think Vernon
Think Winky
So much has been made of their jabs winning the fight (as if Shane's never seen a jab before)...a good jab is a problem for ANYONE!
If anything, I think people are underestimating Tito. DLH is not 2x the boxer Tito is or he would have been able to box for 12 rounds instead of 8. He couldn't because the other guy's strategy was even more effective. When he realized he could no longer box and would have to stand and trade...he ran. That was the conundrum you faced when fighting Tito. Also, saying Tito had problems with speedy guys is strange. Like who? Oscar? I just discussed that. Who else?
Long rangy yes. Defensive minded no. If he were as defensive as Wright or forrest (in his fight with mosley) I would've given him the edge. But due to the fact that he liked to go for the ko that would have left him open for leads and counters against the quicker mosley. As long as the fight goes 12, mosley most likely wins.
No one is saying that Mosley would've been less difficult than Reid. You are the person who raised Reid as an example. And while you mention speed, you fail to mention that what really troubled Tito - to go along with the mph on the shots - was Reid's size and strength. But once he began landing, it was all over.
Mosley would be in deep sh*t against a fighter of Tito's build; a fighter who could keep him at the end of his shots and threw with power. Mosley has always had trouble with those kind of fighters. His strength would not be a factor here and he just wasn't a fighter who could go in and out without getting caught. Furthermore (and it seems to have been forgotten here), but a prime Tito was fairly quick handed himself. Against a fighter with as many defensive lapses as Shane, he would land plenty.
I see Shane jumping out to an early lead with Tito taking over in the middle rounds. Down the stretch could be brutal. Shane is tough and I expect him to hear the final bell but lose a UD clearly.
Fair enough, but although Tito was fairly quick he wasn't as defensive or cautious as a winky wright or vernon forrest. Although forrest was effective at keeping mosley at the end of his punches, it shouldn't be forgotten that he clinched very effectively to stem the mosley tide. Trindad was generally a much more offensive fighter than forrest, and due to his aggression and mosley's speed he would've taken leather in return.
And notice, molsey didn't say "i'll just over power and ko trinidad." He stated that he would've out boxed him, clearly indicating that he respects trinidad's power and the destructive force of his left hook.
In contrast, before the cotto fight, mosley said that he did not intend on making that fight a boxing match, hence the reason why he was flat footed and loading up on single shots. This made him vulnerable. He wouldn't have shown trinidad this kind of disrespect (It should also be noted that if cotto didn't start to back pedal late in the fight there's a good chance he would've been ko'd. Trinidad has never shown the ability to fight off the back foot for an extended period of time.)
I also believe that mosley's defense and overall boxing skills are severely under rated.