If he's top 3 at 147 then he's better than one of Pacquiao, Bradley or Mayweather and I just don't see how anyone could seriously argue that. I don't like Mayweather, but he still won the fight.
You don't judge guys on whether they can make a fight of it against someone on a different level to them, you judge them on how they do against the guys on their own level. He beat Broner, but let's not forget Alexander beat him convincingly and Khan beat him as well - two guys that have pretty serious flaws.
Other than Broner it's actually hard to point at a single big fight that he's won with a dominating performance. Even wins like Ortiz and Morales he could have lost pretty easily. I have nothing against him and wanted him to win last night, but top ten p4p is a bit ridiculous given his record.
A 10 count? How about an 8 count? Did he even count at all? In a big fight, at least give 8 counts.
And why should ref's count? To give a fighter a chance to regroup even if he's down.
The ref is also there to protect the fighters and wasting 10 seconds before you get medical treatment to someone who needs it is a nonsense. He was out cold with his foot pointing at his elbow. Made no difference either way.
Froch is much smarter than people think. He was trying to set that up the whole fight - fake left hand knowing Groves would try and counter then hitting him with the big right. He was bound to land it at some point over 12 rounds and it was completely devastating when he did.
So GifPoster, did Groves not get up in an alarmed and shocked way when he saw the fight being waived off? To me it was clear that he was trying to buy time, yes he was hurt, but h could have gotten up and instead stayed laying down to collect his senses, buying time. Unfortunately he got no time at all and staying down backfired.
I guess a lot of people here had a dog in the fight, and that is Froch. My opinion is unbiased, I couldn't careless about either fighter. The TKO was not controversial, like I said, but also Groves looked like he was buying time.
This isn't about being biased, it's having basic vision. Anyone with a brain can see he was out cold - conscious people don't lock their arms or twist their leg into completely unnatural positions while they calmly try to "buy time".
Did he even "waste" 6 seconds. I don't even think he counted up to 5.
He didn't waste any time at all - he called it off immediately after he saw Groves was out cold lying on his back. As he should - that's his job.
Lip sync battle with Jimmy Fallon. He'd have more chance of getting knocked out than in tonight's fight, but I think it would be worth it for his legacy.
Khan's problems (weak chin, inability to fight on the inside) aren't easily fixed, so I don't expect anything revolutionary. It should be entertaining though, as most of his fights are.
Speaking hypothetically, if Mayweather wanted to duck the fight what do you think would have happened?
He would have wanted to make sure the fight broke down over an issue that he would get less criticism for, so he wouldn't have made unreasonable demands over money, the weight or anything that he might be criticised for. He would have picked the issue of drug testing, knowing full well that if the talks broke down over that issue he could just imply Pacquiao was a cheat.
If this just happened by coincidence then it's a pretty big coincidence.
Having a reputation for doing his talking in the ring doesn't mean he's compelled to do everything Floyd tells him to do. If Mayweather demanded that he appear on live TV singing Old Man River whilst wearing a ballerina outfit is Pacquiao supposed to do it just so that the fight goes ahead?
All of this pre-fight bullshit stems entirely from the egos in each camp. It's all about trying to get the other guy to do something he doesn't want to do. It's not even about gaining an advantage in the fight, it's just a vehicle for Bob Arum, Richard Schaefer and the rest of them to prove who has the biggest dick.
Mayweather's camp thought they could get Pacquiao out of his comfort zone by giving him a loaded demand - either take the drug tests they stipulate or have to suffer the "he must have something to hide" rumours which go along with refusing it. Pacquiao's camp called the bluff and took it a step further with the lawsuit - effectively saying that either they drop the blood test demand or, in addition to missing out on the money from the fight, there could be substantial legal damages to pay. The lawsuit threat was just a way for Pacquiao's camp to get the initiative back. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Hayes beaten who at heavyweight??
Barrett, valuev(imo he didnt win that and holyfield did a more impressiv job), audley, ruiz and chisora.
Chisora already lost 3 fights in a row prior to that fight, and ruiz was nearly 40 and was average in hiss prime. Plus haye struggled then.
I honestly give this 65 35 Advantage to Tyson fury.
If only you were a bookie.
In terms of styles, this fight is so heavily skewed in favour of Haye that I'd barely give Fury a puncher's chance. He's miles slower than Haye, yet has no ability to keep him at distance with his jab (i.e. he's giving up speed yet can't use his size to compensate). If Wlad can't hit Haye with more than a handful of hard shots then Fury has no chance.
If Fury was capable of fighting defensively behind the jab then at his size he might have the attributes to beat someone like Haye, but the way he currently fights is just a car crash when you're up against a smaller guy with speed and power.
Haye-Fury isn't even remotely competitive. When you're 6'9" and much slower than your opponent you have to keep him on the outside with your jab. Given that sort of fight is completely beyond Fury and his defence is about as watertight as a fishing net, he's got next to no chance of winning.
It's a classic Haye fight in that sense: fight someone several levels below you but convince everyone it's a big event. At least Wlad-Povetkin is an actual fight, not just Haye obliterating a second tier fighter.
Pacquiao himself clearly wants the fight. It's stretching the realms of credibility to think otherwise - why would someone who ducks fights have four fights against a guy (Marquez) who's a terrible matchup for him? If he cared about losing he'd have tapped out at the draw and never fought him again, far less beating him twice and still giving him another shot.
Unfortunately Pacquiao wanting the fight doesn't mean much when Arum and Floyd are in a neverending pi**ing contest.
The grin can only be executed in full form badassery if it's done by certain fighters. Margarito was one. Pac's glove tapping is also top notch.
The grin is hard to pull off. Most guys do it as a kind of pathetic "that didn't hurt me" attempt to save face when they actually are hurt.
I actually think the best reaction isn't to react at all. The most demoralising thing you can get in the ring is catching someone with your best shot and seeing them walk straight through it, as if they barely noticed.
I don't care how often he's fought lately, Ward is still No.2 in my eyes. He went 14 months without a fight, but that's hardly that ridiculous - Mayweather went 16 months between Mosley and Ortiz, for instance.
I don't blame Floyd for most of his recent fights, but I do blame him for Maidana. It's a complete mismatch and everyone knows it. It's a combination of a guy who isn't anywhere near Floyd's level and is a terrible match up style wise. It's an utter waste of time - the best anyone can say about it is that he's not Amir Khan.
But I don't think that one fight makes him guilty of ducking people overall. Mosley might have been past his best, but it was at least a fight people had at one time wanted to see, same with Cotto. Alvarez and Guerrero are actually really good fighters. Ortiz not so much.
If Chisora can get a shot at Vitali then Haye deserves another shot. Chisora has done absolutely nothing in the sport and lost two of the three fights coming into his shot at Vitali. At least Haye has legitimately beaten mediocre HW opponents like Valuev and Ruiz. Chisora hasn't even done that.
It's the cult of the undefeated record. A guy should retire when his skills deteriorate or it becomes apparent that he just wasn't good enough in the first place to reach the top. Khan's skills aren't going anywhere at his age and he's got enough about him to think he can compete in elite level fights.
No, I actually wasn't expecting anything from Haye in that fight, and that's exactly what a I saw, absolutely nothing.
What I'm saying is that Haye is a good CW, or even a good HW against guys that are not a lot taller than him. Haye has some good speed, but the thing is that he can't use that speed if he can't close the gap with his rival. Today Chisora did half the job by just trying to bully Haye, but as I've said against the K bros that won't happen because they like to use their range to beat their opponents.
Haye couldn't do anything against Wlad because he knew that if he was caught by one power shot while closing the distance, he was going to get hurt. As I've said, styles make fights.
The Haye - Wlad fight had more to do with Wlad being brilliant than Haye's weaknesses in my opinion. Against any other fighter (even Vitali) Haye has weapons, but Wlad has perfected the style of keeping a smaller fighter at a distance. Even if Haye was head and shoulders above every other heavyweight out there he'd still lose to Wlad.
The error in that fight was to assume that Haye didn't have anything to back up all his trash talk. He's a very good HW in my opinion and I'd definitely give him a chance against Vitali. Some of the stuff he pulled off tonight (the two hooks then ducking out the way of Chisora's counter, the left that rocked Chisora for the first knockdown, etc.) is beyond what most other heavyweights can do, far less ones that have the power Haye does.
Picking holes in everyone's record is easy, but you judge people on who they could fight and whether they rose to the challenge. Froch has done that time after time when others wouldn't and he's won most of them.
You can't say over his last 8 fights that there's anyone else he could have fought and ducked. Before that he wasn't a big name - he tried vainly to get Calzaghe to fight him without any success. Nobody says he's an all time great, but the sport is better for having Froch in it and he deserves respect for that.
If Wlad fought in a different style that increased the chance of him getting hit/losing then that wouldn't be "brave", it would be stupid. Anyone who intentionally makes themselves worse just to buy into some macho bullsh*t spouted by people who have never stepped into a ring in their lives is an idiot.
People only put this nonsense out there because they have nothing else to use against him. It's a compliment to Wlad that this is the best anyone has - it's basically a variant of the "you only won because you're not playing right" whining a kid comes out with when they lose at a video game.
Maybe there's a media aspect to it. Most boxers aren't actually the ego-obsessed personalities they pretend to be in the media. Some are, but they're also actively encouraged by the media to talk trash to raise their profile. In the US a talented but boring boxer often gets overlooked until they do something nobody can ignore.
Former-communist states didn't have the same kind of pressure for many years. When you fight on state-owned media you don't need to talk trash to raise your profile, you just need to be talented and well connected. Those days are 20+ years in the past now, but it has a legacy on guys that are still fighting.
I think it would probably need to be updated for modern fights. How about pretending to be hurt by something illegal (say a headbutt), complaining to the referee, then when your opponent tries to hug and make up you hit him with a couple of cheap shots and knock him out.
Might work...
Bradley won and I say that as someone who wanted Marquez to win. It wasn't a complete whitewash as some of the commentary suggested, but unless you give every slightly close round to Marquez it was Bradley's fight.
I don't even buy into this idea that Marquez landed cleaner shots. The vast majority of exchanges had Bradley coming out on top. The only reason it seemed closer is that Bradley sat back and was trying to get Marquez to chase (perfect tactics, but nobody really likes to watch it).
I think it's pretty clear to the large majority of ardent boxing fans that if this match-up actually goes ahead it will be a bogus bout with very little chance of clear competition and an obvious easy "Money" win for Phony Floyd.
Not so sure. There's a long list of fights like this - once highly rated but supposedly on the way down guys against can't lose champions - which had unexpected outcomes. I don't expect Khan to win, but I wouldn't rule it out.
Seen it too many times before - a flawed fighter with a unique talent having a one off night where everything goes for him. Khan's always had the talent to beat anyone, but gets caught out because of his chin - yet Floyd has one legit knockout in the last eight years (cheap shots while somebody tries to hug you don't count).
Take the KO away from this fight and it's far more even than people think. Only reason I'd give it to Floyd is that he's way better on the inside and will probably work Khan out defensively after a few rounds. Will be entertaining whatever happens in my opinion.
Juan Diaz. Even after his first loss some people were talking about him as a top 10 p4p fighter, going to beat Marquez etc. Was never at that level - talent for sure, but overhyped.
All Pacquiao's recent fights really prove is that Marquez is a bad matchup for him. He was a bad matchup for him when they fought for the first time almost a decade ago as well.
He showed against Bradley that being slick isn't necessarily a problem for his style (unless the problem is it makes judges make idiotic decisions). Nobody really knows what would happen in a fight with Floyd. For my money Floyd wins a decision easily, but I don't like writing anyone with Pacquiao's talent off before they actually fight.
I wouldn't write him off, to be honest. I've never seen Khan get out-boxed, only get caught by a big counter shot and go down because of his weak chin. When you consider Floyd hasn't legitimately KO'd anyone since Hatton 6 years ago (whatever you want to say about the Ortiz fight, he's never going to knock someone out like that again) it's at least a contest.
Floyd would beat anyone anyway so it doesn't really matter how big a challenge it is on paper. All that matters is how entertaining it is and a fight with Khan is probably more entertaining than watching Floyd school Garcia. Pacquiao would of course be better, but it's never going to happen. Bradley will happen some time down the line.
If Khan beats Brook nobody cares - the story would just be about why Brook wasn't anything in the first place. If Khan loses then he's finished. A pointless fight for him that only makes sense if we're talking about money, though I can see why Brook wants it to happen.