LondonRingRules

i must be the only one who thinks Paul Williams is an ordinary fighter ** I've heard that before, but your case is weak. Ordinary is a journeyman with the approx even record. Wlliams is elite by his record alone. Don't recall anyone making him HOF great yet, but he could be if he fufills his talent. Anyone who can't see the formidable talent and boxing brain behind a young awkward Southern country boy from a region not noted for generally producing much more than journeymen. The way he took on Margarito and revenged Quintana which was a close honorable defeat the first time he was strong down the stretch in, if he can keep the discipline, he can really make some money, fame and secure that HOF spot.

For your sake I hope you're joking about that. Jackson was old, sick and had not had a fight in six years before he fought Jeffries.Peter Jackson died only 4 years after that fight. Jeffries management knew exactly how that fight would turn as any other sane person would. To even suggest that it was more impressive than Liston beating Patterson is some of the most worst ignorance I've seen on this board. I also see how you disregarded all of the top black fighters Johnson beat as if only the Jeffries fight is why people think Johnson was great ** My dearest Joey, apparently the worst ignorance you've ever seen trumps you. Review my post above to break down the best prime heavies Johnson beat. Jackson went into semi retirement at his height, a draw with Corbett and commonwealth win over Slavin. Probably out of frustration, but who really knows? He was a big name and Jeffries just a novice with 7 fights. Yes, they were top quality names you seldom see on a novice fighter's record, but to think that Jeffries had this all knowing management that could keep up with such a noted world traveller as Jackson is just naive. Jackson seems to have run a pugilistic school much like James Figg and Jack Broughton before him. It is just silly think Jackson was not actively sparring and in shape during this time. Already pointed out his age, but for an infirm man on his deathbed as you make him out, he shows up very fit at 195 against a novice no matter how you slice it.

Just for arguments sake, if what you say is true then how did he ever get a title shot? Wouldn't he have been ignored like so many other worthy black fighters? And why if Langford was so adored was he able to fight the best fighters of the day, yet never fight for a title at any weight? ** Ketchell did fight Langford as a teaser to their title fight. Unfortunately Ketchell is shot in the back months later and adios title match. Langford also fights Walcott in what is supposed to be a defense of Walcott's welt title, but historians ain't accepting it as a title fight, supposedly because of the weights. Since it's recorded as a draw, there is little impetus to go further, though one could hope for a change in status for the future. As to how Johnson gets a title fight, he was better established as a heavy than Langford at the time and found some backing that met Burn's guarantee for the fight, the right place at the right time kind of thing. Sorta like McNeely getting the call for Tyson's post prison debut. Burns had agreed to meet Langford before Johnson, but Langford couldn't raise the money in France before Burns sets sail in his world title defense tour. Meanwhile, Johnson is in England, gets some backing with the official Brit boxing org with a supposed signed contract to make Langford his first defense in England if he beats Burns. Fortified, Johnson sails to catch Burns in Australia where Burns reportedly raises his guarantee. Miraculously, Johnson finds a new manager to put him over the top and fight made. Johnson renegs on his promise to defend against Langford, stiffs his new manager after a row over money, and sails to Vancouver for his homecoming. Johnson may not have been able to stay in every "white" hotel, but he does stay in many "white" hotels as he tested and found the ones which would accept him. In fact, he famously busts the color line at the biggest cathouse in the US which was nothing but a private men's hotel for the wealthy.

In March 1898 he was sacrificed to Jim Jeffries, who flattened him in three rounds ** Just scrolled thru on a lark, not meaning to respond. While I rate Johnson, I don't rate him in top 10. Take away the Jeffries win, and you have very little which is a testament to what Jeffries was, the Tyson of his day where the Johnson victory secured the legend, and his finances which oddly enough leads to his downfall. Jeffries was a crude novice fighter against Peter friggin' Jackson how ever old and infirm he was. Damned sight more impressive than young Clay against 50 yr old Archie Moore, or even Liston against Patterson. Had Jeffries not been stampeded back into the ring by a career earnings payday and white hope baiting, he would arguably be #1 today as he was invincible. Johnson would be nothing much because eventually he would have been forced to fight Jeannnette and Langford, one of which already beat him and the other holding him close before maturing with an additional 30 lbs and on a heavyweight tear that has never been duplicated. Every fighter enters his prime under unique circumstances. Holmes' were not as favorable as Ali's for example, which was probably good for Holmes since he couldn't carry Ali's jockstrap. Same with Rocky, which is why the Gods of Boxing lined up those two together in the pantheon of undefeated fighters before Big Lar's fall from grace. Johnson lucked into an opportune time and blew it ultimately, yet is accorded respect by current historians. Thing is he continues to drop in the ratings as people look at his fights and ask, "why is he defending against these little fellas and journeymen and that old guy?" Who the hay in the heavy ranks is gonna be dropped by Ketchell for example? Maybe little Leon or Floyd, but that's about it.

he was always under immense pressure from being detested by the majority, and many black as well, and regular death threats, ** It seems you were unduly influenced by a notorious play that many take as history, The Great White Hope, which in fact is a very loose adaptation of his life. Naturally, Hollywood comes calling as they love fictionalized history. Fact is that Johnson's biggest problem was that he was ignored for most of his career. Few knew of or cared about him as he was not a compelling fighter, being more clown prince and hugs and kisses than man to man fighting like the public adored Sam Langford for. Oh, the Police Gazette ends up jumping on his bandwagon late in Jeffries career, but that's about it. None of the stuff you mention starts until he comes back from Australia showing off his new title and trophy wife. Let's face facts here, he loved the attention, courted it, and of course had help from Jack London and such who whipped up the flames racial disharmony. If you look at his lifestyle post Burns, half of his friends were white. He moved easily around the country until his Mann Act indictment and had a cult popularity that gets buried under the blizzard of negative press. Who are the best "prime heavies" Johnson beats should be the question and answer. Those that know also know the list to be fairly undistinguished: Fireman Flynn, Frank Moran, Black Bill, Frank Childs, Sandy Ferguson, and of course Tommy Burns who was the shortest and 2nd lightest heavyweight champ in history, more on the scale of a smallish LH. Burns was a great fighter, just not a great heavy. The others are good era names, but the quality CVs of Langford, Jeannette, and Wills of the same era are much greater. It's the Jeffries win that turns the trick and it's hard to believe that all these years later people can't put that fight into context of Jeffries attempting the impossible, something that has never been accomplished in heavyweight history, and likely boxing history, that of knocking off 6 yrs of rust, 100lbs of blubber and straight off the rocking chair to challenging an era great in his prime.

The US Congress has recommended that a presidential pardon should be granted to the first black world heavyweight boxing champion. ** Great, the economy is busy in a freefall to the center of the earth and citizens fleeced of their life's savings because of pathetically criminal congressional and presidential oversight, and these yazoos dicker around for years over some dead fighter who drew the color line. Won't hear a peep about anyone promoting presidential pardons of Luis Firpo or Frank Lloyd Wright, but of whom were prosecuted under the same law which is still on the books today. If it don't win votes, forget about it, that's the cardinal law of politicians.

If David Haye makes his heavyweight debut against James Toney, who would you pick if you were forced to bet on it? What kind of fight would this be? ** Hah, hah, this would be a Boozo kinda fight. Toney wins even when he loses and looks like a punch drunk face first journeyman. Haye would have to be desparate to take a fight like this. I'd like to see him taking on the well whooped Thompson. Thompson at least provides a test and might well derail the Haye FlappingLips Bandwagon.

If this was the same Vitali Klitschko from four years ago I would pick him to beat Peter without hesitation. But he is now a 37 year old heavyweight who has not fought in four years. That changes things. What are his chances and how does his fight go with Peter? ** Vitali has a style that is very simple and doesn't really get rusty. What is rusted is his body. I won't believe in him until he steps into the ring. Since he likely pulls out if injured, that will tell me he's fit and ready to go. Peter reportedly may be in the shape of his flabby life. Might help him late rounds if it goes that far. Vitali's biggest strength has always been uncanny accuracy and steadiness. He's young enough to keep these attributes, but without proof, we can't say. What is clear is his motivation of being the first brother combo to hold simultaneous belts. He could easily stay retired. I also wonder if he has an agreement with Lewis to come out of retirement if Vitali wins this fight. Stranger things have happened in boxing. It seems old guys are running the show these days. We shall see. Recently reviewed the Vitali/Lennox bout. Very underrated classic. Had Vitali gone for it in the 4th, he'd have been the new champ. Never had to have a killer's instinct before since methodical beatdowns always worked in the past. Great comeback in the 6th for Lewis. Dirty, but effectively opened up Vitali that extra bit to get the stoppage. Anyone noticed that Peter's promoters been feeding him a stack of injured, inactive heavies pushing their 40s since Wlad? Great work if you can get it, but his gravy train about ready to derail soon enough.

Occasionally in Boxing we are lucky enough to witness a generation defining contest, a contest that transcends the level of importance associated with even the biggest of title fights. These fights are of such a weight that their magnitude reverberates in the realms of civilisation for decades to come. La Motta v Robinson, Ali v Foreman, Ali v Frazier, Hagler v Hearns, all of these fights live outside the category of boxing matches, they belong in the pantheon of legendary sporting events. If Pacquaio and Mayweather masses were to collide it would be the greatest boxing event of the last 20 years and one of the greatest sporting events of the decade. Pacquiao is a noble and humble champion, fearless and determined, he represents the people. Mayweather is undoubtedly the most skillful boxer of our generation, slick and flashy, he is the epitome of a modern number one athlete. Let's hope 2009 is the year in which these two figures write another sporting epic in the sqaure ring. ** Epic try at trying to drum up a good fight, but Floydy don't have the style to make epic fights. Slick, yes, flashy, only in lifestyle, not in the ring. Guy is booed in his own hometown. The most skillful is arguable in his era. It's debatable whether he was the people's choice for p4p #1 for the brief time he held the Ring title. The major importance Manny has is as an Asian cultural icon. He and Floydy are little fellas who don't really register with average western fans. Manny/Oscar had a pretty fair build up like Oscar/Floydy before it, but the fights were anticlimatic, not epic. I'd put forth Tyson/Lewis as a more defining fight as far as anticipation with Tito/Oscar undefeated clash and Roy/Ruiz next. These fights turned out to be anticlimatic also. The only fight you listed that was epic in the build up and fight itself and "transcends the level of importance associated with even the biggest of title fights" was Ali/Frazier 1. Ali was considered shot for Foreman and not many paying attention though the fight was epic. Hagler/Hearns was a battle of minor legends that turned out an epic classic. Don't recall LaMotta/Robby being any more than a good typical Robby matchup up. The series was epic in nature for the legend of Robby, but the fights were someone one sided save the first. None of these really transcended the sport. Jeffries/Johnson and Schmeling/Louis 2 huge era fights that transcended the sport even if both fights were anticlimatic. The only fighter capable of producing a truly epic fight as you describe is Oscar, and he fell a little short, though in an economic sense, he fits the bill as he transcended the economics of boxing. Now, if Valuev is released from the cuffs he's been locked in and goes on a tear like he showed against Monte Barrett for 3-4 fights, the Russian/Ukrainian rivalry would make him against a Klitschko a truly epic fight build up.

This is ridiculous Shane chose a harder fight in a bigger stronger DLH. Not a faded one but a prime one. Shane chose to fight Winky Wright someone everyone avoided. Shane went to fight Vernon Forrest, someone also avoided. You guys are such tools. Shane took on a young strong fighter who was avoided in Cotto. Shane fought Margarito(someone Floyd avoided). Shane has always taken on the hardest fight. If anyone hasn't avoided anyone it is Shane. He started taking easier fights after his 30's. If they fought at 135 Shane would have outright punked him, you need to realize he was a beast at that weight. Bigger, stronger, faster, more ring experience, better combinations, and far more power. Shane has always fought the best, even when he fought his come back fight at 147 he took on a top 10 fighter. For you to say Floyd was avoided is obnoxious. Floyd has avoided the best since 135. He didn't fight Kostya Tszyu when he had a chance, though he did openly say was a good fighter in a interview. Get out of here with Shane avoiding tough competition ** While your points are generally on the mark, most have forgotten the context of the proposed fight. Floydy was a pipsqueak back then. Judah was the Kellerman promoted best fighter in boxing history hot off his KO of Spinks whereas Mosley was coming off his Forrest/Wright debacles/Balco scandals in between divisions, lost in space as it were. The offer was not serious as Floydy was more involved with settling criminal charges against him that almost derailed the Cotto fight as he was backing out of his relationship with Arum. He also shot off about Ricky and Winky and then hightailed it to safe refuge in Oregan to tune up against Mitchell for the Zabby bout. Shane only now made himself a player in the division again. Oddly enough the strongest division in boxing shattered with his recent performance. Floydy retired, Williams moved up, Cotto already beat Shane and Arum probably not keen on the rematch, and Marg's career in tatters until the handwrap controversy settled. That leaves only Manny as a big fight, and I doubt Arum is gonna risk him against a prime welt much less Mosley. Damned shame Shane waited until now for a career performance. Berto unification? Oscar rubber match at 154? Duddy for a vacant 154 belt? What if Marg is cleared of the handwraps, rematch?

Leonard is on a whole different level than Pryor. Leonard proved on the battlefield that he can do very different thigns to win against top opposition. That is what separates the very top of all time greats from other fighters IMO. ** Pryor and Leonard both would beat the ugly out of prettyboy and make it look easy just to keep it on topic. Plenty of other fighters to beat him too, or at least cause a LOT of problems. Floydy's welter resume is really weak and tiny overall. Taking on Oscar under Oscar's conditions is worth noting, but for the money he got, most fighters would go out on their shields against Godzilla, but I digress. Pryor had very underrated boxing abilities that you can see in the first Arguello fight. Check out the later rounds when he rests by "boxing." The way Pryor set up the finish has been buried under the controversy of the "black bottle." Pryor chose to fight in a more open frenetic fashion because it suited his personality, but he could change up things when sufficiently motivated as Alexis put him in that first fight. I regard that fight as the most brilliant overall fight I've ever seen on so many levels. Neither Alexis nor Aaron get near enough credit for it. Pryor could never win points or fame just boxing as Pryor, so like Marvin, he chose the KO route to a greater degree like any self respecting monster would. I can understand how some would rate Leonard over him because of stylistic or competition preferences, but Pryor could do whatever it took to win as good as anyone in the history of the biz in his prime. He was just too dangerous on the risk/reward factor for many and that hampered him.

I didn't see BPP's earlier post breaking of this story. My bad. :oops: ** Can't get enough stories about fatboy. Terrible news for Boozo. Just when he's back in the saddle again as main bucket boy, gots to remount:luvbed:.

Vote! Bad-Wlad thinks Wlad-Ibragimov was a great technical fight. It was rubbish absolutely terrible with not a minute of action that you could put on a highlight reel. ** Maybe you more the clubfighter type, like Minto/Maddalone. Graham Houston found it technically very interesting as did many who have followed Wlads career development from 100% offensive fighter to more of a 50/50 blend. With his shaky chin and strange stamina issues, every fight a melodrama. You know you watched just so you could either see Wlad KOed or bitch about him. Go watch Ali/London, Ali/Coopman, Ali/Young, Ali/Lyle ect if you want to see a boring fight where the opponent either ridiculously weak and under qualified for a title shot or Ali is shot to bits and stinkin' the joint out. Wlad has set some kind of record for taking out southpaw heavies in title matches. Maybe you ought to go review Ali/Mildenberger to see how a middling heavy contender fighting out of a southpaw stance can take a prime talented, experienced HOFer out of his game and have Ali hurt badly enough to brick Cosell's shorts in the fight. Iggy a lot bigger, stronger, more durable/powerful/technically proficient than Mildy, yet Wlad was able to dominate him with one hand and footwork. He had help in that Iggy couldn't just wade in with Wlad's right at the ready, he had to pick his spots to wing in his lefty sunday punch. It was a classic chess match that reminded me of Spinks controlling the distance with careful footwork and pawing left hand that would continually snap over Holmes' guard and wreck his timing. Holmes couldn't throw more than a handful of rights in that fight. Brilliant, herky-jerky masterclass that masses of Big Gulp guzzlers and Big Mac stuffing fans have no higher tastes for. End of the day, gots to go back many decades to see a fighter with more wins and KOs on his record than what Wlad currently sports. He's just too good for you, but always your Minto/Maddalone tape available when needed, and Butterbean/Holmes an underrated classic!

For 7 rounds Douglas was whooping Tyson, then out of nowhere Tyson landed one uppercut that had Douglas down for a 9 1/2 count. ** Tyson did stop Buster. He just didn't get any credit for Buster being down 14-15 sec. Nobody expects absolute perfection from refs, but this ref got paid over AND under the table. He also lets Douglas land some homerun shots on the poorly trained and attended to Tyson on the break with no penalty. Tyson had no one in his corner, no team, no ref, no promoter, no family, no wife. Maybe a couple whores out in the crowd, that's it. Tyson was doomed by mental illness to unravel soon enough, but it's apropo that he gets the exact same long count that robbed his fistic mentor and hero Dempsey of his rematch with Tunney. Tough business....:kabong:

First off, it doesn't really mention how slow Louis was on his feet. He would just kind of plod along, which is why I think Ali's movement would work. ** You can see this fight classic in Corbett vs Fitz. Fitz the little counter puncher plodder, Corbett the flashy fast handed dancer. Ali's footwork had nothing on Corbett and that type of footwork is grossly overrated. Go review the opening 2-3 rds of Folley where Ali does nothing but move in reverse, barely throwing a punch, something he did too much of in his career that would cost him against much better, more prime fighters. It's a huge task to beat Ali by fight's end, but he proved to be much more beatable in his era than did Louis in his, and that's the bottom line in any hypothetical match up. Best to best, hold a gun to my head and make me bet, it's Louis. I wouldn't bet a dime voluntarily unless I had the insider info the wise guys have before their bets though. But why is this in modern and not historical? Wise guys want to know.

I say, in the 7th round I knew the clock was ticking quickly for Cotto. One thing I will say, many people really do not understand or appreciate the mental and physical pressure that a man walking you down in that ring presents to the equation. Add that to the very sneaky and subtle body shots that Antonio was sneakin gin there almost non stop after the 2nd round and the handwriting was on the wall. ** No offense Ice, but a whole lotta folks saw the handwriting after the 7th. Even Max and Manny were on the same page for this fight. Marg visibly staggered Cotto in the 1st with a left hook to the body, and there were a couple dozen more before the end. No legs for Cotto. Cotto showed the heart of a champ and fought brilliantly, but the damage to his nose compromised his stamina and left him weak in the end for the beat down. Vasquez had to quit on his stool the first Marquez fight because of his nose. Fair play, all the top welts fighting each other giving everyone some classics. Nobody could remain undefeated against these guys forever. Cotto to be back better than ever from what I saw, and I pray Marg finds a soft place to land since his style of soaking up unholy punishment a deal with the devil.

A boxer may do alright but it can all end in one punch and his work rate negates a lot of other fighters offenses and boxing ability. Kind of like Margarito. ** Boy is a fatboy. The eastern Euros easily outclass him. He can't hold Marg's jock strap. He got a gift against Chazz. Should be a rematch as the result was crap. Apparently it's OK for crazy Uncle Roger to attack Zabby in the middle of a round but not OK for Chazz corner to jump on the ring apron after the bell sounds. He ain't improving, he's getting fatter, but fatboys and Ruiz is all Americans got left and Ruiz a Puerto import on his last legs. No wonder the country's been getting flushed. Pavlik the only legit boxing star left in the country since Oscar and Shane are in the twilight years. Boxing in the pits, but thank goodness for them dirty no good good foreigners.

Not true. Mayweather signed to fight Judah before Judah even fought Baldimir. There was no "delay". After Judah lost, they reworked the contracts and the fight went on. I don't understand why some people choose to make things up. If you don't know about it, don't talk about it. ** My dearest Joey, I've lined it up so the sun comes up tomorrow in the east. Some truths irrefutable as you noted above. Yet you failed to see the sun set on Floydy in the west during this time frame. Pay attention now. Bit weary pointing out to the math challenged short attention spanned masses the obvious. Zabby KOs Spinks 2 wks after Floydy KOs Bruseles. Zabby IMMEDIATELY calls out Floydy with the blessing of Don King. Floydy not signed with Gatti yet. He can go straight to Zabby, pass GO and collect a superfight payday. What part of the OBVIOUS are you missing. He choses to take short money against Gatti over Zabby. Zabby makes an optional low money defense against a set up, and then makes another low money WBC defense against another set up, Baldy. Zabby and King didn't want those two fights. They wanted Floydy based on Zabby's sparring sessions with Floydy and Floydy's victory over a big name, Gatti. Easy money, just like Spaddy wants Floydy based on their sparring sessions, but can't stay out of jail long enough to be relevant enough to land the fight. My goodness son, Floydy a fine fighter, but gold blingy ain't nearly the same as the golden throne and staff that Rameses the Great sat on. Please do try to distinguish. Not many great fighters turn down career paydays, but don't get me started on the exceptions. Besides, Floydy a retired billionaire. Why can't his fanboys leave him retired in stead of matching him against Marg whom he already turned down career paydays against? How many billionaires duke it out in the ring Joey? Lay it down. RIP Floydy. Done. Finished. Kaput. Adios amigo. Undefeated WBC champ, HOFer. It's enough for Floydy, so why ain't it enough for you dearies?

No one has won all the alphabet titles to unify the division. ** Don't feel bad. Everyone has a DUH moment. Floydy ain't never unified any title in any division. You really should know this as the only legit belt he ever held was the WBC for his entire career. Yup, WBC company man Floydy. Had a chance to take a so-called "unified" welt belt when Zabby called him out after KOing Spinks, but Floydy was busy in and out of jail, courts, and targeting Gatti for his WBC title and couldn't be bothered with a real challenge and big money superfight. Marg has held 3 welt titles, WBO, IBF, and now WBA which is more than Floydy ever held. Marg has also been in the ring welt rankings for over 7 yrs now, far longer than Floydy in welt Ring rankings. Just the facts m'aam. Modern fanboys more into posters in their bedrooms of Floydy, imagining they could be him or be one of his little buddies. Reality a whole 'nother can of worms. Of course, Floydy a billionaire who turned down piddling 30 mil purses against Oscar and Ricky, so be satisfied Floydy has more $$$, more blingy, and more strippers than Marg. Marg, however, well, he married much better than Floydy, lets, ahem, put it that way.

This is a line of shit for several reason..... .....Keep in mind ** Naw, a mind is a terrible thing for waste. Time for you to flush. May be uneducable. Get someone to assist you across the street to find Boxrec. Judah calls out Floydy as soon as he KOs Spinks a month before Gatti ever signed, 4 months before they fight. Fairplay, poor Floydy knows that beating Bruseles don't exactly prepare you for a ready to rumble red hot Judah fresh off of Spinks, but the facts show that he was handed unification on a platinum platter and delayed it until it was too late when Judah demolished by Baldy in a mandatory setup fight the WBC tried to find a slow, easy to hit obscure journeyman for. Just the facts ma'am. Of course you seem like the type that makes up their own facts to fit what they think instead of what they know. So you end up with little anomolies like Hitler fighting with Hannibal, Cesar fighting with Saddam, and Obama marrying Cleopatra and other such modern day blingy nonsense. Hey, Floydy a billionaire now. He can buy his own history. 10 division unified champ married to Madonna and J.Lo in a dual ceremony. Whatever blows yer skirt up dude.

Time keepers very often stop the clocks when things like that happen even if the referee doesn't call a timeout. People need to get off Cortez's dick.... Seriously. ** Hey, it's all for you, just spare us the details, seriously.

The real reason Klitschko won this fight is because his good luck charm Teddy Atlas, now for the 7th time in a row picked Klitschko's opponent to defeat and dethrown him. ** Gots to understand the finances of upper level boxing. Atlas as a premier media icon picks the Wlad opponent which causes the sucker to throw his money that way, all while Teddy waits and pounces on the best adjusting odds on Wlad. Win/Win for Teddy. He mainly gets a nice windfall, but if for some reason Wlad loses, he gets to do his Bert Sugar routine of I told you so, so I must be genius. Love to be a fly on the wall and see who he publically picked in the first Brewster fight and who he bet on. I imagine the answer is self evident, but still, be nice to hear it from the horse's arse hisself!

He was pretty low key tonight... ** Cortez did about as well as a shot ref could do under the circumstances. He blew it in the 10th by not calling time out when they got tangled up and Thompson didn't want to fight any more. Cortez gave him an easy 30 secs to recover and then the bell rings. If you go back and review the fight, Wlad is landing a lot of jabs and rights through the guard of Thompson that the compuhoax system was too stupid to count because those guys just a bunch of drunk baboons pushing buttons. Wlad took Thompson's legs out early in the fight which is why he collapsed 3x and looked ready to fold at various points. Wlad should thrown that right hook up the gut of Thompson and he'd have taken him out earlier, but, like Ali, both the brothers tend to be headhunters and pretty damn accurate ones. A better fighter with his legs under him might have made Wlad pay for some of those missed rights, but Tony hung as tough as he could and did a decent job on Wlad's body even if it lacked any conviction. BTW, Wlad holds the record for wins against southpaws in title matches, a modern development you won't hear all those musty ol' war horse media types talk about because their radar don't detect well in the modern era. Povetkin in the breech next should prove to be much easier. John Ruiz the only Ring top 10 fighter left to hold up the tubby pants of the US of A. Who'd have ever thunk it? Hopefully we'll see Cortez put out to pasture along side of Big Brown. Poor guy is shot....:usa:

its not just black folk its americans period. look at boxing right now in terms of how popular it is. can you blame someone for wanting to play basketball/football instead and make 10+ millions more rather than gettin brain damage for chump change? american boxing will remain the way it is untill it becomes as popular/lucrative as it was in the past ** Thank you, BUT.............. All this NFL/NBA stuff is just nonsense. All those guys would be in the heavy division. Vast majority of boxing is below heavy. NFL is the most brutal sport in the world next to bull riding or skiing down Mt Everest. Baseball a much easier sport physically with much longer careers than basketball and football. But as previously noted, Americans slumping there as Caribbean and South American Latinos have taken over close to the majority of starting positions. At any rate, MLB/NFL/NBA just a fractional per cent of the population of eligible males. American culture has gone soft. Maybe guys who used be boxers to escape the farm or heavy industry have regular corporate jobs or own their own business. Their sports are rock climbing exotic places, triathalons. The underclass left behind is handicapped by the hiphop culture of posing rather than doing. Drug dealers have the bling and flash the cash, the ho's and of course computers and their games. Damned kiddie boxing games have ruined utube searchs for matches. The few that might be interested that remain have modern short attention spans, so UFC/MMA is where they gravitate if they are interested in fistic/martial arts. Guys are built more like them, think more like them and get them stirred up to watch or participate. Boxing's become a old folks' sport. Guys like Sugar, Merchant, Lampley, ect. Kids don't want to listen to grey haired gramps waxing on about old guy's stuff. Boxing gets an infusion of youth now and again, Ali, Leonard, Tyson, Oscar, now Manny, but it's still the Marquis of Queensbury. Become a big star in boxing, and you do make your millions. Thing is, amateur boxing has killed pro boxing. No self respecting American wants to watch popcorn popping for 6 mins in fluffy headgear. The transition from amateur to pro is greater than ever. I consider american amateur boxing dead, and the international game a joke being held together by eastern Euros and Cubans. My humble suggestion to counter thie old folks perception is to create the London Prize Ring Rules org to bring boxing back to it's spectator roots. It'd counter MMA/UFC and give some historical exotic cachet to a dying sport, especially if they wore the period tights and the face off was some old time posing in classic stances in a tiebreaker competition to prevent draws. Except for the ground game and kicks which don't thrill MMA/UFC fans as much as the straight up fisticuffs, LPRR is very similar with chokes, throws, trips allowed. Of course newer techniques could be used in the actual fighting. More importantly, many of the boxers wouldn't always be able to cross over as it's a completely different fight, so maybe those who had no niche in modern boxing would find a spot in LPRR. If nothing else, it'd at least attract some public press and it's better than circling the drain and doing nothing but getting dizzy.

" It's still a good # of African Americans who play pro foot and basketball. ** 99% of age elible black Americans don't play pro sports, or to expand, 99% of all Americans don't play. Most of those pro players wouldn't be boxers anyway. There is very little overlap in the sports. It's like thinking if more golfers put down their clubs and laced up their mitts, we'd have more Corrie Sanders in the division and golf is killing boxing. ESPN just created a nonsense article to sell adverstising. It creates a brief flash of dialogue, sorta like political candidates offering to suspend the gas tax for the summer. Gets ignorant voters talking about things beyond their grasp and makes sound like the candidates have an easy plan. I offered up my limited view, and if I was to come up with a summary, I'd say most Americans are becoming couch potatoes. The only pick up games you are likely to see is basketball. Probably as many pick up soccer games as football games and pickup baseball, forget it. Local municipalities don't offer recreational Nascar races either. It ain't a secret that the average American male of relevant age to play pro sports is going to be grossly out of shape if not obese. They don't do the hard work any more, and aren't active in sports usually. How many Lou Gehrigs, Jim Browns, Magics and Larrys are running around in blubber suits? Or for that matter, how many 4.7 40yrd guys ain't in the NFL? How many sharp shooters don't play pro basketball? How many softball HR Kings won't play in the MLB? I dare say there are many more fast handed or big punchers walking around that won't ever box, and that's the bottom line. Boxing ain't relevant except for a few diehards. Espn article is nonsense. Floydy the #1 p4p fighter couldn't outdraw a local dogfight in his own hometown. He always needed a Gatti, a Ricky, and Oscar to do the numbers. Plus, I don't care where the guy calls home, he's gonna get booed. If he had to support himself on a global tour like Tyson is doing, he wouldn't make it out of Nevada.

If Toney's mind is right it's gonna be exciting to watch. This guy is a defensive wizard and I love his fight style. ** Didn't know defensive wizards lead with fat faces. His mind is an empty discarded KFC chicken bucket rattlin' around some gutter. Now I picked ThreeTonToney to win because it will go like the first fight with Rahman landing a thousand and one jabs to a few clean shots by TTT. Rahman can always be trotted out for another title challenge, but these are the last times TTT can be trotted out in public without promoters being charged with fraud. You know King is desperate for a 3 ring circus against Valuev who will be the new WBA champ since Chagaev is finished. Press conference to be the highlight, maybe the best ever. Stay tuned.

1) Jones goes up to HW in March of 03 and beats Ruiz. ** You'e asking to explain a Don King smoke and mirrors production. Nobody but Roy or possibly a trainer can tell you the facts, and Roy can't be trusted because he has a reputation to protect. The facts are Roy weighed in only 5-7lbs above his normal ring weight. If looks count, that was all muscle weight. His "ring weight" for the fight was 12-14lbs above his normal ring weight. We don't know his actual weight because he never stripped down. Assuming he wasn't wearing weights or accessories, his actual weight at weighin right at 190lb limit, making him 5lbs or less over his normal ring weight. All this 50 lbs of solid muscle stuff just hooey by fanboys. Circumstantial evidence would point to possible steroid use at this time. Again, nothing proven. Next, we don't know what weight Roy blew up to or shrunk down to after the fight. The reports out of training camp for the first Tarver fight were glowing, but again, these writers sometimes fall in love with their subject and don't have the best eye usually. Training sessions can be choreographed, ect, so unless you are an insider, it's all smoke and mirrors. It's a concensus that Roy didn't look good for the Tarver fight, but pulled it out at the end. Facts are he had been looking lackadaisical in fights leading up to the Ruiz fight. That ended up being such a big event that he was well motivated for, and he also had a lot of assistance from the ref who wouldn't let Ruiz fight like Ruiz. King after all was looking to squeeze money out of Roy for future heavy fights, set up everything for that purpose. Roy got the big head, started talking 100 mil purses, and for some reason let the pipsqueak Tarver get under his skin. He was given a signed Jirov contract drawn up by Roy's manager for his cruiser title, but Roy never signed and let it die in his drawer. He backed out of Holy negotiations. We know what Toney did with those two. They salvaged his tattered rep. After Toney beat Jirov, the Toney rematch was the biggest non heavy bout Roy could have made, but Roy wouldn't bite on that. Probably personal animosity towards Toney, but who knows? Seems to me that Roy's just been hanging on, going through the motions after Ruiz. Likes the glory, the attention, the training, but just marking time in the ring, denying the aging process. Someone mentioned he just got caught against Tarver the 2nd fight. Absolutely. That was like a gunshot in the ring that brought down the moon. One off shot that knocked the earth off it's axis. That shot drops 99.999% of the lightheavies who ever lived for the count. If you look, Roy has his right guard in solid position too. It was just one of those perfect shots. Since then, it's been a crisis of confidence for Roy. Not good enough to beat the best, but good enough to keep a ranking and maybe worm his way to a soft landing. Thus, enter Joe Calzaghe. We shall see.

anyone got a Toney vs. Rahman link? I wanna see Lights Out school this chump. I'm in NYC and we don't get FSNY anymore ** Head on down to your local KFC. ThreeTonToney Bucket Special with the video stream package thrown in.

Hell Yeah!! Granted i really do box.......sometimes look at some pros like "I could take his ass right now" ** Yeah, me being a kinda tweener, it comes up often. Me not a big cruiser, but Cunningham looks easy to KO with nothing to keep me off. I could then diet enough to make 175. Johnson might be too strong too savvy, Joe too fast, but Antonio, I could easily be in and out on him with some new tattoos before he could think to brick his shorts. Poppy, heck, that's easy. Just keep running to the opposite side of the ring he runs to until he boils over in what little pride his toothless gums gots left and comes after me for a real fight. I'd just skip away laughin' with little popcorn flurries and let the judges do their thing when he starts crawling around the canvas yelpin' again. Then get heavy pizza and beer deliveries during training camp and weigh in with a full bladder and belly against Peter to make weight. Then drop down to my normal street weight and jump in under his jab and whomp up his fat gut real nice with a quick exit and cruise to an easy decision. Maybe a few kicks to the shinbone when the ref ain't looking to gimp him down for comedy value. Then I'd track down Haye and go jaw to jaw with him telling him how I'm going to turn him into MaccJellyDonuts and release the video on utube, and bingo, I'm done with him. Yeah, maybe start with a phonecall this weekend to get all my ducks lined up. Don't know why I didn't think about this before.

I'm glad someone can see how solid this post is. I can take no credit for writing it. I read it on another boxing website and was amazed at how well it debunked the rumors of Floyd ducking everyone under the sun. ** I flush solid daily without any credit whatsoever. You can read it here and be amazed as well.........:wow: Let's drop the quack-quacky talk and just euphemistically admit that since moving up to jr welt, Floydy dearest has been following the path of least resistance. Two title eliminators to fight the least among the 4 jr welt champs, then the fight against the disgraced Zabby. One can excuse his Baldy fight given that the ancient Sasquatch had lifted the WBC and Ring title from poor Zabby. One can also excuse the money fight with Oscar who was overrated near #1 at 154 in spite of only one win in something like 3 yrs. One can even excuse fighting the #1 jr welt at welt in another money fight, but when you figure in his career Floydy never held but 25% of the belts, and that only being the WBC belt, well, a BIG NEWSFLASH FOR YA: The number of champs he didn't meet probably out number his entire career record. Must be some sort of un-unified record there, but anyways, wake me up when he actually steps into the ring again. He retired in the middle of a much bigger promotion than Marquez, which sorta begs the question, is he even relevant now? Does he even know what he's doing any more?