Probably got my vote too. Though Vitali's was bad plus we get colour with that! MInd they have to be 2nd and 3rd after my finger after I tried carving a turkey with an electric carving knife. It was boxing day so I think it counts
Probably got my vote too. Though Vitali's was bad plus we get colour with that! MInd they have to be 2nd and 3rd after my finger after I tried carving a turkey with an electric carving knife. It was boxing day so I think it counts
meant to quote post about Rocky v Charles in that but forgot to tick the box!
All fighters can be is the best of their time, anything else is pure speculation. Todays fighters have the advantages of better training, better nutrition, better technology etc etc. The best of the present day fighters would have certainly been great in earlier eras. That said there are a fair few fighters who have flattered to deceive by picking up a version of a title but putting on a few pounds and avoiding tough fighters. Also many records look more impressive because they have beaten countless world champions at different weights. There are now countless titles at new weights so there is a greater opportunity to pad a record. In older eras fighters used to have to pick off the contenders one by one then finally get their shot, nowadays beat someone in the top 10 of a sanctioning body and you get a title fight.
The fact that the "contender" might be ranked at 30 by another body is irrelevant.
I think don't be blinkered and embrace the new but don't close your mind and respect the old.
The latest isn't always the greatest.
I tend not to like White Brits, but I don't mind Joe Calzaghe.
Not many guys have been World Champion for well over a decade and retired undefeated. Also, for him to unify his division, then go and win a World title at Light-Heavyweight against the great Bernard Hopkins (long before Bernard destroyed Kelly Pavlik) is kinda impressive.
So what are you then? Apart from an obvious alt that is!
As a proud Brit who adores both Joe Calzaghe and Ricky Hatton, I would like to see Hatton win this one, but I cannot see it.
Pacquiao is too relentless and too quick for anyone, even Hatton.
I don't like Brits, so I'm not one to stick up for 'em, but this is bullshit.
Just because this old whore brings a lot of tourism into the United Kingdom means jack shit.
Also, what have her family ever done for America? They ain't never fought for us in Afghanistan. None of them have
I must admit that i enjoyed this speech from the woman tho.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IelUFNw1TI
A non-White, British friend of mine from England (he is biracial like David Haye) said that the anti-Black and anti-Asian racism in England is horrendous.
Apparently they have this thing called 'positive discrimination' whereby Asian Muslims are not allowed to even apply for certain top jobs.
It's disgusting.
Every day of his life Khan is probably attacked and racially abused so I don't blame him for leaving UK.
Or it was 5-1 or 6-0 depending on whom you talk to........
If you talk to a K brothers fan it was 12-0 or a DQ for Vitali, either way it has slowly become a win for Vitali.
The poll result is a kind of victory over racism against the Klitschkos. :fing02:
It shows MOST people are FAIR and don't believe the very racist idea that Eurasian men are athletically inferior and even the best would lose to a smaller fighter from the supposedly athletically superior race.
Race is in your head 24/7, a victory for racism was your ban. You talk about obsession a lot, does searching through all my posts and red K'ing a year old post count?
Exactly.
And Golota I think is just stupid, he's just a moron. I love the guy but he's about as smart as a rock
Agree the best dirty fighters knew how to get away with it
Vitali was clearly winning the fight 4-2 on all 3 scorecards at the time of the controversial doctor stoppage.
OK name 3 fighters you have seen been allowed to fight on in the last 30 years with a worse cut than Vitali had?
Vitali had won the first 4 Lewis the last 2, long time to go, he lost to the worst conditioned Lewis ever seen, end of.
Can't see Mayweather going anywhere near a fight with Duran.
Duran by UD or late stoppage.
People seem to have this view that Duran was just a brawler, he was as much like Gatti as Ali was like Liston.
Mayweather cannot make the weight so has made demands so as to scupper the fight.. its crazy to demand a fighter has a needle put into is arm on the day of the fight.. The $10 million per pound weight issue is something Floyd cannot deal with so to get out of the fight he has made these false accusations against Pacquiao without thinking and now he is being hit with a Slander lawsuit which will cost him millions
Totally agree, mind games are one thing but to try and slant the fight in your favour by potentially weakening the other fighter is not on.
It's a shame because Mayweather needs this fight more than Pac and even losing he could enhance his legacy tremendously.
C'mon Floyd risk that 0.
Most people thought he had no chance of defeating George Foreman, but he wins by KO. There is something suspicious about that, and his other wins as well...
In hindsight, perhaps Big George should have demanded Ali have Olympic-style testing! Ali's other opponents like Frazier should have as well...
Without performance-enhancing substances, would Ali have been successful?
There has been zero proof that Ali was on any steroids so why even bring this up?
Vitali has been found guilty of taking steroids so it is fair to question him.
Incidently why not start this thread under your main Carnivore account?
Well then, you really seem to be reaching into the deep end now. So, because you can't stay on track you have to go and exaggerate everything? Ok, so you think my stat was wrong. What is his reach then Pinkard? You'll certainly know down to the millimeter I'm sure. Anyway, I stick by my claim that Leonard's reach is 74". If it's wrong by one millimeter, shoot me.
Yes, Jones did only have 12 title defenses of his LHW belt/s. A loss is not a defense in my book. So, call it 12 successful defenses. Don't get caught up on pettiness. I had also already mentioned his other title defenses at his other weights in the first post, so the stats are all there. Maybe you just didn't read them.
The only difference we have on the Toney win is that I see it as different because it would be no different if say, Buchanan had moved up to 140 and then Duran moved up and beat him there instead. I don't see your problem with that.
Must say I thought SRL reach was 74 too. Duran pretty much always gave 8-10 inches reach away moving up and mostly at lightweight too.
Whereas I believe RJJ never suffered much of a reach disadvantage (often an advantage) Ruiz only had 4in on him.
Reach is a big factor in boxing maybe we should go on reach for reach rather than pound for pound.?
One thing I can't figure as well is the quoting of "hall of famers"
There are lots of halls of fame some include such as Palomino, Cuevas and De Jesus. The 3 we are working off of are Bert Sugar's ESPN and The Ring yes?
Duran is ranked 8 in Sugar's hall of 2002 and Jones is 88? Don't agree with Jones being that low, I know it is 2002 but Jones has lost 4 out of 11 fights since then I believe, so wouldn't fly up the poll based on results since. Duran is 5 on the Ring's hall of fame and is 6 in ESPN's Jones is 46 in ESPN, again Jones is too low.
Again both great fighters and a lot of cherry picking of stats going on.
Both great fighters, why the need to denigrate one fighter to show how good another is. I've been watching boxing a long time and enjoyed watching both. I think there is a habit of looking at statistics and deciding that people wern't good fighters simply because they rack up more than an acceptable amount of losses. Very easy to pad a record out.
I remember Duran fighting and he was a great fighter no doubt as was RJJ. He lost to fighters he shouldn't have but then he never looked after himself as he should have done he also never ducked anyone.
De Jesus was a hell of a fighter as was Buchanan, Palomino, Cuevas and Davey Moore. The last 4 I haven't seen mentioned in this debate. Even if you take out the SRL win out of Duran's record he is still an ATG.
No one gave him a chance against Davey Moore who was the new bright young thing and Duran destroyed him. Could be that Moore never got to be an ATG because Duran ruined him?
I think it is hard to judge who will beat who with the certainty that some use on here, personally I think if 2 all time greats within the same weight fight 10 times you will rarely get one of them 10-0.
I reckon that in a boxers entire career they will only be 100% in half a dozen fights.
That is the reason why I measure all time greatness on the length of time that a fighter was competing at the top, on that score both qualify.
You can always work out who was the best on paper but boxing takes place on canvas.
Anyhow that's my 1st post so fire away.
Vitali beats all of them IMO.
I gurantee the retarded Klitschko haters will show up and try to ruin this thread.
What even an overweight Lennox Lewis?
Shame that fight didn't happen :)
Not really a smart fight by Haye. If he's trying to pace himself, he better start picking it up in the late rounds and not run out of gas.
I think he is trying to pace himself but I think he is letting Valuev get into the comfort zone if he is relying on outlasting Valuev or the judges I can see this going to Valuev. Haye has to up the pace.
Yeah, I know I was just making a sarcastic post lol.
I agree that it could've been more action orientated, but Haye fought how he needed to fight to get the judges to score it in his favour, based upon the criteria that they use to judge fights.
Given that Haye won't be fighting any 7 foot monsters again for a while, I'd say we're in for some better looking Haye in the future.
I think this fight was definately a great learning experience for him too.
I think that now Haye has put this in the mind that he fights this way when fighting big guys I would like to see him get really warmed up in the dressing room and go for the throat from the bell against Wlad I think he may suprise him and get some success.
Well, I don't know.
Are you a Valuev fan/Haye hater?
The validity of this dilemma stems firmly upon your answer to that question.
The lumbering forward was aimed at Valuev. I don't care much for Valuev he bores me and I was rooting for Haye as he is a Brit. Dreadful fight though but Haye won by a couple of rounds. Some have it 8-4 to Valuev don't know what they were watching think they scored it before the fight.
Worst fight of the year. Big talk, sorry excuse of a performance.
Haye is basically repeating what Holyfield did except doing it worse and throwing even less punches.
It was awful but I'm still going with Chaguev and Wlad on the worst fight of the year. Mind it may be because I had more interest in this fight it having a Brit in it.
So would it be fair to assume he could beat all past heavyweight champions Lewis, Tyson, Ali etc.
Something many of Klitschko's fans say is probable.
I think he is the Johansson for the new millienium
Thus half-a-head size difference (weigh in) will translate into a larger size difference in ring.
He is not adverse to showing a picture of Joe Louis standing on scales and Max Schmelling standing on the floor to emphasise how short Max Schmelling was!
He doesn't use anything comparable to my logic.
Some may enjoy this joke:
Redneck Logic
Two rednecks decided that they weren't going anywhere in life and thought they should go to college to get ahead.
The first goes in to see the counselor, who tells him to take Math, History, and Logic.
"What's Logic?" the first redneck asks. The professor answers by saying, "Let me give you an example. Do you own a weed eater?" "I sure do."
"Then I can assume, using logic, that you have a yard," replied the professor.
"That's real good!" says the redneck. The professor continues, "Logic will also tell me that since you have a yard, you also own a house." Impressed, the redneck says, "Amazin!" "And since you own a house, logic dictates that you have a wife." "That's Betty Mae! This is incredible!" The redneck is obviously catching on. "Finally, since you have a wife, logically I can assume that you are heterosexual," said the professor. "You're absolutely right! Why that's the most fascinatin' thing I ever heard! I cain't wait to take that logic class!!"
The redneck, proud of the new world opening up to him, walks back into the hallway, where his friend is still waiting.
"So what classes are ya takin' ?" asks the friend. "Math, History, and Logic!" replies the first redneck. "What in tarnation is logic???" asked his friend. "Let me give you an example.
Do ya own a weed eater?" asked the first redneck.
"No," his friend replied.
"You're QUEER, ain't ya?"
This thread is another example for the delusion that boxers of the 70ies were superhuman.
Now, let's get back to reality with some "Wake up, childhood is over"-facts:
Foreman's weight in the 70ies was median 217lbs.
Basically like Chris Byrd or Eliseo Castillo. Foreman is 6'3.5''.
217lbs + 6'3.5'' = Wlad's average opponents, except that Foreman was 10-20 lbs lighter than Wlad's median opponent (234lbs).
STOP DELUDING YOURSELF.
In the whole 70ies Foreman fought only 4 heavies who were 6'4''+.
All 4 were bums with a median record of 24-30! One of those bums he couldn't even KO (Roberto Davila, 27-29, 8 KO losses, 6'4'').
In the whole 70ies Foreman fought only 5 heavies who were 225+ lbs. All 5 were bums with a COMBINED RECORD OF 52-42!
Boy, you gotta lot of faith if you think that someone like Foreman who cannot KO a featherfisty chinny bum like Davila could KO prime Wladimir Klitschko.
On the other hand Wlad has a better KOratio than Foreman and Foreman has not seen anyone as tall, heavy and hard hitting as Wlad.
The fight would be probably somewhat competitive (because I consider Foreman the best of the 70ies boxers), Foreman would survive a few rounds against Wlad before Foreman lands on the floor.
And we're off!!!
Listen we are talking about a boxing match, if it was however weight watchers the Klit Brothers would kick ass for sure.
Having duped myself into watching the "fight" the other night, a few things leapt out at me:
1) How on earth could someone as limited as Chaguev ever win a title and never be knocked down before? To then hear someone say that Ustinov looked impressive really put it all into perspective.
2) Wlad is an efficient fighter with a good (not great) jab. He is in a woefully weak era as proven by Chaguev but carries out his work efficiently.
3) There are self fulfilling prophesies. The division is weak and so fighters can remain undefeated. Then when someone better than them beats this "undefeated" fighter it is trumpeted way beyond its reality.
4) Wlad has a style that is best watched via BoxingRec, where you can look at his weight the other guys weight, compare records etc. To actually watch him is painful.
To try and inflate the skills and records of the Klitschko brothers by denigrating proven atg fighters from the past only leaves that poster open to ridicule and causes ill feeling to the Klitschko brothers. The Klitschko brothers have reigned efficiently and with dignity the fact that they are scorned on this site by many is not the fault of them but the fault of their fans.
And Pinky Poet couldn't resist to post another sexually tainted message.
You are so predictable.
Considering at the time of writing you have made 272 posts of which i'll wager 270 are about either Wlad being the greatest fighter that has ever walked the earth or that Ali was a bum or weight obsessive I do not think someone elses predictability would be something you could comment on with clear conscience.
I personally would go with lilac re Poets writing colour its certainly not pink.