FrankJack

I definitely agree. There are many who can't discern between athleticism and technical skills. And as many posters have said before, Roy's technical ability showed as his athleticism began to decrease, and he was found to be lacking. That's the reason why Roy hasn't been able to win big fights later in his career in contrast to other greats and hall of famers who went on fighting past their prime.

I would say Mosely. Since he's gotten with Nazim, he seems as if he's able to somewhat put together a combination again. I think lacking that hurt him against Cotto and doing that greatly helped him against Margarito. A one punch at a time Mosley can't beat Miguel Cotto, I think. But, that being said, I strongly believe that if Shane had pressed the action more in the later rounds he could have been able to defeat Miguel. But, either way, I would love to see a rematch, it'd be an entertaining fight. But Mosley REALLY needs to work on his defensive game. It seems like he's always susceptible to straight right hands. We saw it against Forrest, Wright (well, the straight left), Vargas, Cotto, and then Floyd. He really needs to do something with that left hand he always keeps so low.

okay, I see. Glad I asked because I did see and hear some fans making arguments about Antonio being drained and what not and I didn't think that made sense. But, yes, the title being at stake for fighters who are unproven at that weight is cause for uproar, I agree. Glad you guys pointed that out to me.

Aren't as many people stealing their mother's furniture or purse to purchase cigs, but they coke heads sure seem to love doing it.

I'd say he quit. I mean, I could see their being an argument if now and again single punches were straying border line, but Anthony was putting punches in bunches landing pretty far down there. He was likely to get ko'ed soon, so I also believe he wanted a way out. Peterson lost some respect from this fight, Rios on the other hand did his thing. Def. interested in how Rios fairs in the future.

The sport won't be better or worse when Floyd retires. It'll be the same as it's been for a while now. There are so many other fighters out there that bring excitement to the sport both veteran and up coming stars. For me personally, there is too much going on in the sport to place my concern on any one fighter. Whether it be Floyd, Margarito, Pacquiao, Mosley, or any other single person.

He definitely has the better boxing skills out of those three, but since he only had one fight at welterweight (if they were to fight there) it remains to be seen whether he has the power to win against them. I say this especially when I think about him against Margarito or Clottey who are both very big and strong at that weight. I believe that Juan could easily time and pick away at Margarito with his precise counter punching....but for how long could he do that against someone with a chin like Antonio who just walks through abuse piling on pressure. And Juan doesn't have near the power that Shane has, so I can't see him backing Margarito off of him. The main thing that I think would give Juan a chance against Clottey is Joshua's inconsistency. With his last two performances you just don't know whether or not he's coming to fight and throw punches. Against Miguel...I would love to see that, partly for the whole buildup that would be behind it with the Puerto Rico/Mexico rivalry. But, as to who I think would win that one.....Man, that's hard for me, but I would favor Juan in an very hard fought decision. I could be wrong, but like I said, I think skill wise, Juan definitely is on the level against any of the fighters named in the topic.

Morales solidified his place in the Hall of Fame before Khan even stepped into the minds of the viewing audience, brother.

I'd say that Joshua is a B level fighter who is in danger of slipping into the Cs due to his last two performances. There was a time when he would let his hands go, but he hasn't been that fighter as of late and that's cost him the two biggest fights of his career. Were he still a fighter who threw punches, I would give him the edge against Paul Williams. Paul is a fighter who has continually shown himself open to counter punches and left hooks. And Joshua has shown himself to be able to effectively put together four and five punch combinations using his left hand alone.

I keep seeing and hearing fight fans refer to Manny's defense, but maybe I've been seeing something different in the last several of his fights, cus I'm not seeing this great defense. I've seen Manny get walk right punches from Miguel Cotto and his high work rate caused him to catch a lot of punishment against Marquez, and Floyd is a better counter puncher than Manuel. The southpaw stance won't be much of a difference maker for more than a round or two, I don't think. We've seen Floyd make adjustments to speed and that stance against Judah and Zab has quicker hands than Manny.

I've never seen Shane adjust mid fight when he was in danger of losing. He only knows how to fight one way.

Mayweather is considered a pure boxer because he also has an incredible grasp of the fundamentals. He is probably the best in the sport at measuring distance, which is why he can remain just out of range for any effective response from an opponent. He's one of the few fighers in the sport who can comfortably fight with you in the pocket and sustain little damage. He knows how to use the jab to the body to open up opportunity for the lead right upstairs. He understands and demonstrates the use of feints. A pure boxer will continue to win good fights after their prime due to their technical skills. I like Pernell and Ali, but their success also had a lot to do with their athletic ability, especially in Pernell's case.

Well, it always appeared to me that early on Pernell had amazing upper body movement where he could dodge just about anything you were throwing at him. But, as he got older and those natural gifts began to fade, his defensive ability seemed to also fade a bit more, he seemed to want to fight it out more than he would of had to and got hit more often. In short, he became much more hittable. Ivan Calderon fits that bill, also looking at his past few bouts. He's very athletic, but it's starting to fade and the purity or solidity of his technical skills become more apparent. And although he was never considered a pure boxer, Roy Jones fits into the category of amazing athletic ability that, once faded, showed a lack of fundamental solidity. He's perhaps the best example that we've seen thus far. This is what I'm getting at when I mention Pernell Whitaker. I don't know if that cleared it up or not. I could be wrong, though. Or it could have been the drugs he took, also.

After Pirog has a few more good performances id like to see him fight martinez. If paul williams can ever fix his deficiency of being a tall man who fights short and also keep his hands up he can potentially win the rubber match. I had him edge sergio out first fight by outworking him. Sergio is wasting his time calling out anyone at welterweight, noone there will fight him. The best fights for his resume would be perhaps Angulo, Cloud, Bute, and those in the super six minus kessler and abraham.

I think it's an interesting match up.

I hardly know anything about any other sport except for boxing. Usually when I mention boxing as the only sport I watch, the conversation follows as such: them:"yeah, man, I like to watch boxing too." me: "Oh really? That's cool, man. Who do you like to watch?" them: "man, I love to watch rampage jackson, or rashad evans." me:"....wait, who?...are you sure your not talking about UFC?"

Speed and power belongs to Amir but he's not as skilled in other areas as Timothy is. Let's take both of their defensive abilities into consideration, for instance. From what I've seen from Amir, his defense for the most part has been his movement (and he has good legs for the first half of fights) but when the distance is closed on him, he will go into a guard that isn't all that tight to begin with. We've seen a variety of punches get through that guard by Maidana and Kotelnik. On the other hand with Timothy, he has shown that he can slip, dodge, and pick off incoming punches as well as use movement when he needs to as he did against Peterson. Tim can get wide and wild when he throws his punches and that will be his undoing should he go against a confident good counter puncher. And Amir has shown that he can over commit and lunge into his punches at times which makes him susceptible to counter punchers also. Malignaggi was able to land some decent counters against him, but his severe lack of power provided no deterrent. The two will definitely have to meet up to decide and it's hard for me to choose the better between the two as they've both faced solid competition through their careers and neither resume is anything I would laugh at. I'm excited about seeing the outcome, though. That's all I can say.

I understand not liking headbutts. Tims height and aggressivr style are going to make those prevalent in his career though. I don't dislike him though, because in all of the fights where there is a headbutt, he is already winning in the fight. If he were winning because of the butts that would be a different story.

If Arthur wants to have a chance in beating Andre then he will have to do what Sakio did and make Ward fight. To do that, though, Arthur will have to be more active and actually let his hands go. Andre has shown himself to be very clever in the clinch and stronger than what his opponents expect in out wrestling them and getting off punches in the clinch, throwing them completely off their game. Arthur has shown a mental weakness in being unable to come back once he's thrown off his game. I'm not rooting for either, but I'm very curious what Abraham will do when Andre begins to nullify his power by smothering him on the inside so he can't generate an effective punch. Will we see him fold into himself mentally as Allan Green did? It's not very often that I've seen a fighter with a mental weakness in regards to inadapta

If Arthur wants to have a chance in beating Andre then he will have to do what Sakio did and make Ward fight. To do that, though, Arthur will have to be more active and actually let his hands go. Andre has shown himself to be very clever in the clinch and stronger than what his opponents expect in out wrestling them and getting off punches in the clinch, throwing them completely off their game. Arthur has shown a mental weakness in being unable to come back once he's thrown off his game. I'm not rooting for either, but I'm very curious what Abraham will do when Andre begins to nullify his power by smothering him on the inside so he can't generate an effective punch. Will we see him fold into himself mentally as Allan Green did? It's not very often that I've seen a fighter with a mental weakness in regards to inadaptability change it around.

yeah, I don't know if I would want to fight in Indonesia back to back. But, I always figured that Juan would have made a big fuss about this over the years.

I like Sergio, and his ability does impress me quite a bit. I would favor him to win over both Floyd and Manny as neither of them have fought a larger, quick, athletic opponent before in their career. The only issue that I have is that Sergio doesn't seem to be able to fight well on the inside, but he has good legs that for the moment prevent him from having to do so. Also, while I was impressed with his ko victory against Dzinziruk, I realize that Sergei was inactive for nearly a year previously. Definitely, a good name for his resume though regardless, along with Pavlik and Williams. I know he wants to fight Chavez jr. but, while it'll be entertaining, it's not going to place him any higher on my p4p list. If he's looking for bigger fights to improve his resume he may want to take a peek at super middleweight where there's an abundance of talent.

After Ali and Leonard left there weren't any more good fighter. Oh, yeah, didn't he knock out Roy Jones? (this was said after I mentioned Marco Antonio Barrera) Yeah, man, I remember when Tyson knocked out George Foreman in that one fight.

"Oh, yeah, wasn't he the guy that knocked out Roy Jones?" (this was when I mentioned Marco Antonio Barrera....) "Boxing only has two good fighters, Floyd and Manny, once their gone the sport will die." "After Tyson was done boxing didn't have any more good fighters." "After Ali was done, there just weren't any more good fighters." "________ is thr greatest of all time!" (but, had never seen anyone else's fights and only a handful of said fighters bouts) "He sucks, he isn't undefeated." or "He sucks, he's been knocked out before."

I love the way that Marquez fights and he is an incredibly intelligent boxer. The chemistry that he and Beristain have is untouchable and probably has very few rivals. Marquez has only gotten smarter and better through the years. And yeah, it is amazing how calm Marquez remains when he's pressured or hurt. Although I felt that he lost against Barrera, he's my favorite fighter out of Mexico (Barrera being my second favorite from there).

I see Marquez beating everyone except Clottey and Cotto also. I don't think Joshua would have been hesitant to trade with Juan and I think Cotto would have eventually overpowered Marquez (but he would have taken a fair share of punishment from Juan's counterpunching). I honestly think that Juan is a better counterpuncher than Floyd, he would never get the chance to display this against Mayweather though as Floyd fought extremely cautious and did not mix it up with him. But yeah, Margarito, Hatton, De La Hoya...all of them would lose to Marquez. Hatton would be knocked out in a similar style as against Mayweather, he'd run straight into a counter punch. But then, I do wonder if Marquez would have the power to keep Margarito at bay.

I think it was an appropriate stoppage. Micheal's head was just getting banged around after a while. I mean, he was still fighting and that's great, but he was really getting punished in there.

yeah, I'm looking forward to it. This year has really ended on a high note for the sport.

yeah, my friend and I were talking about that the whole fight, the way he was throwing that right hand. We were both like, "there's no way he's getting much impact on that."

Manny has been matched pretty well, but I can't deny that he's done great things in this sport, either. I guess Jack has the space to talk about match making because out of the recent fighter I think of just off the top of my head, his son, Shane, is the only one that immediately comes to mind as one who willingly fights people who are obvious horrid style match ups for him. I'm sure there are others, but again, that's just off the top. My point being, there aren't many fighters who haven't, aren't, or won't pick and choose who they face.