Well, since Golota held it together long enough to beat Riddick Bowe from pillar to post, not once but twice, I'd say Tyson is more mental. At least Golota didn't quit against a couple no name nobodies.
For the last time, Shavers may have punched harder than Foreman. Tyson, Ruddock, Morrison, Lewis et. al do not punch as hard as Foreman. That's just the way it is, get over it. Tyson didn't want any part of Foreman. He was scared. Get over it.
Foreman's knockout of Moorer was a little more than an arm punch. If you watch closely, he turns over on that right hand. He didn't swing for the fences like some other fighters do. Whether or not he was an arm puncher really is moot. Pretty hard to argue with one of the highest KO percentage in heavyweight history.
People keep saying Holy should be allowed to fight to earn a living. What about being able to make a living AFTER boxing? What can he do if he is a vegetable? If Holy doesn't have a little money socked away from all those fights, a few more fights ain't going to help.
It's his life and he should be able to do what he wants is another line bantied about. If you sit in your driveway and beat yourself in the head with a hammer, eventually you will be taken away FOR YOUR OWN GOOD.
Remember, the state commissions are there to PROTECT the fighters. Now they don't always do right, but when they do as in this case, we should support them wholeheartedly. Granted the commissions have a LOONNGG way to go in protecting fighters but maybe this is a good first step.
Boxing isn't supposed to be like the roman gladiators where it is a fight to the death. Holy accomplished more than most and made more than most in the ring. He is a solid top ten alltime fighter. If he wants to commit suicide or do irreparable damage to himself let it be away from boxing. I wish him the best and hoping he comes to his senses.
As I've posted before, I agree with Tommy, Foreman's win at 45 was great and not so great for boxing. Now everyone thinks they can do it, when in the 100+ yrs of boxing history, it has only happened once.
Tyrant, I don't know either of the fighters, but I saw the fight. Unreal. Unbelievable. It was cool to see the arrogant, smack talking prick get owned. And that was some serious ownage.
Tyrant, the second fight is the one I saw. Huge unbelievable turnaround. Almost looked like a "Hulk Hogan" turnaround it was that unreal. Bet the guy that lost feels like shit for not being able to finish that guy.
joe didnt have a better defense than a lot of people and tyson is included. tyson had a great defense probably the best ever,
That statement right there is proof positive that you don't know squat about boxing. Tyson had the best defense ever? Not even close. Ever heard of Ali, Holmes, Louis and Charles?
A lot of people assume since Foreman demolished Frazier that Tyson would do the same. Not so. Foreman was much bigger, stronger and had a better chin than Tyson. Not 30 seconds into Frazier-Foreman, Joe lands a huge left hook. Foreman walked thru it. Tyson would not. If it didn't knock him down it would shake his confidence and Frazier would rip Tyson apart.
"Foreman didn't look good against Ali, Lyle and Young".....blah, blah blah. Tyson didn't look good against Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis, Willaims or McBride. It's called PRIME vs PRIME.
We already saw this fight. It took place in 1973 in Kingston Jamacia. Mike,err I mean Joe came screaming out against George and landed a big left hook. Granted across the board tyson probably hits a little harder than Joe, but Joe's left hook ranks up there with anyone's punch. What did George do? He simply pushed Joe away and there was nothing Joe could do about it. Then George tee'd off with STRAIGHT precise punches at first and the rest is history. George can and would push mikey around the ring at will.
Besides, why can't the tyson nuthuggers accept one fact. tyson had a chance or the most lucrative fight IN HISTORY with a 40+ Foreman and he turned it down. Who turns down the most lucrative fight in history? A scared fighter, that's who. End of story.
In regards to whether Holyfield could beat a young Foreman, think of this. Holy is much too willing to stand and trade with anyone. He just couldn't do that with a young Foreman. Holy just doesn't have enough power to keep Foreman at bay. He couldn't put down old George with almost 20 straight shots, he sure won't put away a young foreman. A great fight, while it lasts.
As far as which is better, a young George vs an old George. I think the only person who could KO George, is George. Have to go with young George here.
If young George had old George's brain in '73, he would have been champ for 20 years and retired undefeated. Noone would have even come close to challenging him. No Ali, Holmes or Tyson would have touched him.
Juyjuy and Slipx, my point about Foreman and Tyson being similar is that both were far and away the biggest punchers of their respective eras, they both had a surly demeaner and temperment, once both had "made it" they didn't feel the need to listen to advice and they both had trouble adjusting their game plans if a fight wasn't going as planned.
Tyson's problems in and out of the ring are mostly mental, just as George's were.
Slipx, why the hostility? To question my posting ability after some of the real pearls you have offered up doesn't make sense. Take a pill :chairshot
If Ali's 2 losses (ok, he got a gift decision in the 3rd fight) to Norton don't knock him out as fighter of the '70's, why would Holy's 2 losses to Bowe knock him out?
Everyone wants to find the next "big" thing. It's way too early in Peter's career to know what he might do. Hopefully his handlers don't rush him and instill some discipline in him.
Personally, if someone is that sloppy physically at this stage, he won't amount to much when he gets some money and builds a kitchen in his bedroom, ala Riddick Bowe.
It really gets sticky in some of the lower weight classes, but the is only ONE title worth having. LINEAR. Being the man that beat the man. The rest is just bullshit and politics. WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO etc. could all name me as champion. SO WHAT? I never beat anybody. It doesn't amount to a pints worth of warm piss. Too many different belts and too many weight classes. All it does is dilute the sport and cause confusion and apathy. Two things this sport definetly doesn't need.
Foreman has always had a soft spot for Tyson. I guess it's because tyson was a similar type fighter as Foreman, though not nearly as good. I honestly think Foreman is genuinely concerned about Tyson's overall well being vs. what King, Horn and Holloway did to him.
Yep, Dempsey didn't have anything in his hand. The "legend" of the teeth sticking into a glove is from Jack Johnson v. Stanley Ketchel. Supposedly when Jack knocked Stan out some of Stan's teeth were sticking in Jack's glove. In film of the fight you can see Johnson brushing his gloves together after the KO, whether or not there were teeth present is up to debate.
No contest, it's the tyson nuthuggers. tyson was past his prime when he lost to a bum in Buster Douglas, but 15 years later he is going to clean out the division. Can you say delusional? Berbick, Spinks, Thomas and Smith were better competition than Frazier, Foreman, Norton and Liston. Marciano was too small to even get in the ring with mikey but the same person in the form of Holyfield beat mikey from pillar to post. Frazier has a worse chin than mikey because he got up 6 times against Big George Foreman but mikey has an iron chin for getting KTFO against douglas, Holy, Lewis, Williams and McBride. I guess getting up from a knockdown and going on is worse than not getting up at all. The list of absurdities is endless.
Apparently no one has explained the rules of boxing to Peter. He needs to learn that it's not illeagal to try to duck or dodge a punch. Dummy just stood there.
I really wasn't impressed with either fighter. No body attack from either. A jab and right from Wlad and wild and looping shots from Peter. There are other punches that are legal, guys.
I hope Wlad's success tonite doesn't turn him into the next hug and mug Ruiz type fighter.
Not impressed at all. Taking a fight on short notice shouldn't have anything to do with being able to finish a guy off in the 2nd round. Torres had no clue how to close the show, not once but twice. You either know what to do when you have a guy in trouble or you don't. He don't.
I agree that no one fighter can fix boxing. To the average person, boxing ranks somewhere between "I don't care" and "who gives a crap." Stop 10 people on the street and no more than 2 would know who the middleweight champ is.
The only way to get mainstream interested in boxing again is to have a white heavyweight olympian that succeeds big time as a pro without all the dramaqueen antics of tyson.
The only way people care about boxing is if it gives the U.S. another gold medal at the olympics. The media is always quick to promote a new "white hope", so the average guy would actually hear about this up and coming fighter. The public loves success and hates failure so he would have win convincingly and often. And lastly, people are getting tired of all the police blotter, self serving, whining, crying athletes today, so this fighters had better be clean and gracious.
Not even close. Foreman crushes Lewis. Lewis has nothing and I mean absolutely nothing to keep Big George off of him except the ref when he is counting 10 over an unconscious Lewis.
Ppv are a symptom of boxing today. In the '50's and '60's boxing was a popular as baseball. Not so today. Back in the day, fighters fought more than once a year in a trumped up over hyped match. Fighters in the day fought better competition as in, the top guys fought the top guys.
Now fighters only want to fight once a year and make a killing each time. The general public has little knowledge of boxing today. There are may reasons for this. Screwy decisions, poor matches, out of shape fighters, inactive fighters etc. The public isn't aware of boxing even like it was in the '80's. EVERYONE was talking about Hagler, Hearns, Leonard etc.
Too many weight divisions with 3 or 4 different "champions" in each hasn't helped either. What boxing needs is a national commission with fewer weight classes, only one champ and regularly scheduled fights. Then maybe and it's a big maybe, boxing could get a t.v. deal like baseball or football. Heck NBC gave 6 BILLION for a few years of football. Now if Don King and Bob Arum are out of the picture that would be more than enough to go around.
Norton wasn't overated, he just came along at the wrong time. He fought not just one lucky, once in a lifetime fight with Ali, but 3 times he basically fought Ali to a draw. He just had the misfortune of being there with Foreman and Shavers. IMO, Norton would clean out the division today. He was that good and that's still not saying much.
By the by, if you ever get a chance to watch any of his fights with Ali or his fight with Holmes, I highly recommend it. Great BOXING matches. Very tactical fights, especially the Ali fights. Not knock down, drag out bloodbaths, just good, solid PROFESSIONAL PRIZEFIGHTERS.
Just more rubbish from someone who doesn't like Marciano. As for the cash thing. Back then it was common for people to deal only in cash and hide it instead of putting it in a bank. Lots of people who grew up in the Depression or immeadiately thereafter did not trust banks. When dealing with boxing promoters and such, wouldn't YOU want cash? I'd never take a check from Don King or Bob Arum. Pretty shrewd and smart on The Rock's part. As far as being cheap, well yes and no. He didn't piss his money away like Tyson did but he did provide a very nice living for his family and could be generous to good causes.
To say Marciano was tied to the mob is like saying someone who gambled in Las Vegas in the '60's and '70's was tied to the mob. Vegas was controlled by the mob then and so was boxing back when Marciano was fighting. At that time a certain amount of respect was due to certain people. Just the way it was.
As for the day he died, to say he blew off a birthday party just to make a buck is slimy. He had a previous commitment that his family was aware of and was heading home asap when he died.
Damn, you guys need to see some of the older fights.
Heavyweight-Foreman-Frazier. Never has such a great champ as Frazier been utterly demolished in a title fight.(No, not even tyson v. Douglas)
Hagler-Mugabi or Hagler-Hearns
Duran- Leonard I. Duran spanked the golden boy.
LaMotta, Robinson, Graziano, Armstrong all have fights that could make this list.
The correct answer is none of the above. None of those guys were heavyweight champ. Linear is the only thing that counts. Anyone can make up an alphabet belt. Beating the man that beat the man is the only thing that deserves recognition.