These two guys were fighting completely different kinds of opposition during their respective primes...While James Toney was fighting the best guys there were in and around his weight class during his prime, Calzaghe was beating up on ESPN 2 allstars...
Toney UD12
Back in tha day the # of title defenses a fighter had was very important as far as determining legacy...Nowadays with all the alphabet sanctioning bodies the number of title defenses a fighter has holds considerably less significance...
There's a whole bunch of variables that come into play with this one but all in all I think its a very even match especially at 140 lbs...I can see scenarios where both can guys could be successfull...Certainly if the fight were to take place in Manchester Hatton would have a decided edge just as Judah would if the fight took place at 147...
Without question Oscar had the more successful career...Whether you like Oscar or hate him, the one thing that can't be taken from him is the fact that he fought the best guys in and around his weight class...He consistently tested his skills against the very best that the sport had to offer...Joe C. had a great career as well but Calzaghe's resume lacks the big names that are fixture on DLH's...
I certainly don't think its a given and I would have to say that Margarito would have to be the favorite going into a rematch with Cotto...Lets face it, Margarito has at least one big advantage and thats the fact that he has already knocked Cotto out once before...Although Margarito has just suffered the same fate it wasn't Cotto who did the deed...
First off Mosely is a much bigger puncher than Pac so its just natural that his punches are going to inflict more damage than Manny's...Oscar and Margarito both got their asses handed to them, but at the end of the night if I had to choose I would have rather been Oscar...Margarito was getting blasted by a legitimate 147 lb fighter with heavy hands who has been all the way up to 154 and fought effectively there...
Margarito was stretched out and seperated from his senses...Oscar was totally frustrated and knew that there was no way he could overcome the speed and quickness of Pac...
The biggest difference is that Oscar's fight was stopped to save him the embarrasment of being shutout and completely frustrated by a smaller fighter and huge underdog...Margarito's fight was stopped in order to save his life...
If there's any way that Margarito can stay at 147 he should do so...At 154 he loses a lot of the advantages that make him so dangerous as a welterweight...If he moves up he will no longer have the size and strength edge that he has become accustomed to...Those are the things that seperated him from the rest of the fighters at welterweight...
Tony will run into the same dilema that Ricky Hatton had when he moved up to 147...The fighters will be bigger and stronger, his punches will have less of an effect, and the punches comin at him will be much stronger...
The welterweight title has been vacant ever since Floyd retired...I don't think anyone at 147 can really claim to be the best at this point...Everybody on the list has fights that they would need to win in order to be the unquestioned welterweight champion...
Wow, all I can say is wow. I never saw this coming, I knew it was going to be a tough fight but I never thought we would see the destruction of Margarito.
The biggest difference in Mosley's approach and Cotto's approach was Mosley's physical strength. He was able to keep Marg off of him and fight a dirty fight inside.
Great game plan by him and Richardson and great execution. I personally like Mosley, think he's a class act and nobody deserves this more than him. Unbelievable for a man at 37 to pick apart a 30 year old beast like Margarito.
I will say this and it's nowhere near an excuse but Marg didn't look hungry, he looked like a completely different fighter when he was in vs Cotto. Maybe the limelight got to his head the past few months, who knows.
Styles make fights and that's why boxing is so great. I know some people will claim they knew this was going to happen all along but it was definitely an upset and shocker. I thought Mosely could win but not ko him.
AS far as the illegal stuff in Margs gloves, if it's true, then thats a shame. Although it doesn't mean he tried it with Cotto but I can understand why there would be questions.
Props once again to Mosley and his fans, great all time performance. I don't know if Marg is done but something didn't look right about him and he has taken a lot of punishment throughout his career.
I pretty much agree with your summation...IMO Margarito was looking past Mosely and didn't take him as seriously as he should have...He didn't seem to have his usual energy and drive...I think Tony thought he would just walk right through Mosely and Shane would fold...
I would say that depends on the criteria one uses to make that kind of determination...One thing is for certain, this fight definately enhances Mosely's legacy...I'm not so sure that it elevates him to alltime great status though...
I know I've seen quite a few people question Mosely's place in boxing history...They will point to his win over DLH as his only substantial achievement, forgetting him dominance at 135 and the fact that he has held titles at three different weight classes...He also was able to do something that both Ricky Hatton and Andre Berto were not able to do and thats beat Luis Collazo convincingly...
All Tony needs to do is take care of business against Cotto...If he's victorious in the rematch people will soon forget about this last fight and he's right back in the mix...
Hatton would struggle to beat any world class welter weight let alone mosely. Obvious!!! and a pointless thread
Agreed...If Collazo had Hatton doing the "Judah Jig" what do u think Mosely would do to him...
Mosely KO7
All I Know is this fight was huge for Shane Mosely as far as his legacy is concerned...Very few people gave him any chance at all against Margarito so for him to not just get the victory but to destroy a guy many said was indestructable is huge for Mosely...
Both guys r alltime greats and future hall of famers without question...Of the two I would say that Toney is the more accomplished...However both fighters have displayed consistency and longevity two key ingredients whenever you talk about greatness in athletics...
As far as Margarito's weight is concerned how can you fault a guy for complying with the rules that were given him and every other fighter concerning weight...Those arguments sound like haterism to me...
Every fighter is allotted a certain number of fights in their career and Roy passed his about six fights ago...Roy is one of my favorite fighters of alltime but he need not worry about Hopkins...Roy better hope he can get past Shieka at this point...Sorry to say it but Jones is but a shell of his former self...
Shane Mosely is not a boxer, never has been...Just because people see his handspeed they automatically assume that Shane is this master boxer which he is not...Its a dilema that has plagued Shane at times during his career...He always seems to be punching when he should be boxing and boxing when he should be punching...Shane is a victim of his own warriors mentality...He may start off trying to box Margarito but at some point in the fight and probably early on he'll choose to stand and fight and that will be his downfall against Margarito...
Calzaghe is definately an alltime great...However we'll never know to what extent because it took so long for him to secure high profile fights...I've always liked Calzaghe as a fighter dating all the way back to his many fights on Showtime...Whats unfortunate is that he never secured a bigtime fight with any of the name fighters in and around his weightclass while all parties were in their respective primes i.e. Hopkins, Jones ect...
I wouldn't say that Cotto has stamina problems cuz I 've seem him fight effectively late in fights with energy and power...However there have been instances where it looked like Cotto faded at the end of fights as well...IMO the opponent probably has more to do with it than anything else...The Cotto-Mosely fight saw both fighters trade some pretty intense leather throughout, ditto with Margarito...I just think that Miguel exerted himself more in those fights than others...He didn't have the opportunity to coast or take a little break during those particular contests as most fighters do...
No one said anything about his stamina when he stopped Judah late in their fight or the one against Torres...
Trinidad probably would have decapitated Cotto...Miguel is a good fighter no doubt, but to even slighty insinuate that he could beat a prime Felix Trinidad is foolhearty...
Cotto never once turned down a mayweather fight...anytime pbf would be interviewed and cottos name would come up floyd found some excuse not to fight like o ya hes a good young fighter and just dont think he has a large enough fan base....the guy sells out MSG for his fights and has an entire country behind him and cotto whenevr asked bout floyd says ill fight whoevr top rank puts in front of me no matter who it is
Cotto has little to do with who he does and doesn't fight...Those decisions are made by Bob Arum...When both guys were at 140 lbs Arum stated repeatedly that Cotto was not ready for Mayweather...Thats straight from the horses mouth...
man stop..if cotto wanted the fight with floyd all he had to do was say it,,,fighters can choose thier fights
Unfortunately when it comes to boxing that how business works...Very few fighters have control over who they do and don't fight...Bob Arum did a pretty good job of mapping out the career of Miguel Cotto...Miguel may have assumed more control on the business side of things now that he has more experience but at that time Cotto was fighting the guys Arum told him to fight...
I don't think the weight would have much bearing on the outcome of the fight...Kelly fought as well as he possibly could and came up short...At 160 the result would be the same...