I wasn't keeping up with social media and reactions during the fight, so I was surprised at what I read following it.
I'm a fan of TC, and was pulling for him in this fight. Personally I thought it was a pretty exciting event overall. Getting a little drama courtesy of no-hoper Karpency in the 1st round set the stage. Then Benevidez/Santana engaged in an intriguing fight in which it became a question if underdog Santana could win on mostly heart alone (and nearly did IMO). Following that, got to see a true beast in Valdez do his thing in short order.
The main event had a lot of tension in the first few rounds. But what makes Crawford so great (and has in his past fights) is his ability to scout and adjust. Knockdowns in the 5th, then some good sticking and moving for the rest. This progression of events, combined with well timed beers in between, made it an enjoyable night.
I guess if you were expecting a slugfest (or were pulling for Postol) I could see the fight as a disappointment. But I personally was glad I bought the PPV after going back and forth that night on whether I should.
OP, I've posted numerous times asking for independent verification of such offer. The best anyone can come up with is 'well, they didn't flat out deny it, so it must be true'.
Which is somewhat hilarious given the hyperbole and lies that come out of promoter's mouths on a daily basis. Even if the offer was $15m, do we know any of the contract stipulations (e.g., GGG has one hand tied behind his back and agrees to get Nancy Kerrigan'ed on the way into the ring)?
The reality is GGG is the clear B side here, and Loeffler knows that. He doesn't want to get into a pissing match with GBP ala Arum and the Pac/Floyd thing, since the reality of the situation is they need Canelo more than Canelo needs them. Also, Loeffler historically has taken a much more private approach to negotiations, whether that works in his favor or not is another debate. I'm not saying he never talks about negotiations/contracts publicly, but that his actions here in no way constitute a confirmation of a 'no strings' 15 million dollar offer that people here keep insisting.
First few I thought of in no particular order;
Canelo - brings a rabid fanbase/atmosphere, brutal combination punching
GGG - Solid thudding power, great highlight material, like watching a shark hunt
Lomachenko - Like watching a combination of boxing and dancing, 'the matrix'
Crawford - Love watching him analyze his opponents and quickly flip the switch
Lots of fighters have had celebrities in attendance. OP sounds insecure about GGGs 'drawing power'.
GGG is a draw. But he is not a draw in the sense of May/Pac/Canelo.
Hahaha, I love it when fans (or haters, not sure in this case) start saying things that even the fighters themselves aren't trying to argue.
Clearly a knockdown. Wasn't hurt (or if he was, he recuperated very fast). Jacobs put up a good fight, but lets not start making things up now.
He hit the guy while he was down, this is coming from a Golovkin fan, he should have been DQ'd or at least 2 points taken away
Why do you think that? Because of how flagrant it was? For a supposed 'Golovkin fan' you sure do post a lot of seemingly biased 'questions' regarding him. Personally while it did look bad, he did appear to pull the punch at the end and did realize his error. I think it was a stupid moment on GGG's part that he got caught up in the heat of battle.
Lemmy wasn't injured by the foul, and could clearly continue. Therefore according to my understanding of boxing's rules, the referee has a LOT of discretion as to what to do. To me, a DQ would be ludicrous since it was GGG's first offense and again, did not clearly cause injury to Lemieux or prevent him from continuing.
Personally I would have been ok with a one-point deduction due to just how late this punch came, but anything beyond that seems overly punishing.
Enough with this nonsense. Too early for numbers, and that is laughably low. How anyone would be so gullible as to give any credence to what a rando posts with no backup is beyond me.
And the OP's username is 'theunbiased'....
aaaand fighter's trainer significantly overstates fighter's ability/accomplishments. Nothing new here, though I wish Sanchez would tone down the hyperbole.
Doesn't sound credible considering that Thurman is mocking Garcia in the media over this tuneup.
Yeah but wouldn't that build 'teh drama' for their matchup?
If this is true, great, but doesn't excuse Garcia's garbage warm up bout.
Khabib is ridiculously far behind Crawford or any other top welterweight or super lightweight. That fight proves absolutely nothing.
All I have to do is point to how badly Malignaggi's boxing skills bothered Broner. And not even prime Paulie, but a past it Paulie that arguably lost his last fight to Pablo Cesar Cano. That guy almost beat Broner. Crawford is so much better at the things Paulie did in that fight that Broner would be lucky to win 2 rounds. That's without even bringing up that Maidana and Porter not only beat Broner, they beat him easily. Porter boxed his head off. Has Broner ever beaten anyone as good as Postol or Gamboa? Come on.
Broner has zero functional advantages against Crawford. He isn't faster, he isn't stronger, he isn't more skilled, he isn't more talented, and Crawford's style is an absolute nightmare for him. he probably doesn't even have more power. What in the world could he do to beat Crawford?
Yeah pretty much this. With the Postol fight Crawford showed me just how good his movement and footwork can be, which would spell nightmares for the flat-footed, pot-shotting Broner. Maybe it was on this board, but I certainly don't recall a lot of people saying Broner would lose to Khabib.
Crawford IMO is getting the love he deserves and is where he should be in peoples mind. A very good fighter on the verge of being great. So many out there (despite the odds) called this as a close 50/50 type fight. To then go back and say Postol was nothing just because Terence made him look like nothing is disingenuous. Similarly Broner is regarded as he should be, a good fighter that may have had the potential to be great, but is too stubborn/dimwitted to realize it.
He's definitely being overrated but i still have him comfortably in my top 5 p4p. I think he can continue to dominate at 140 but if he ever goes up against the big dogs at 147 he'd probably go 1-1 which is still insanely impressive considering he started at 135.
So this may be a stupid question, but if he is comfortably in your top 5 p4p, how is it exactly he is being overrated? I don't see a ton of calls for him being listed as GOAT/ATG, so how much higher are people rating him?
The problem I've always had with the PBC was the total lack of transparency and clarity.
Sure, you have haters out there (Steve Kim, others) who bask in the opportunity to bash anything PBC does regardless if it is positive or negative. However, even a positively biased observer can't make heads or tails out of how the PBC is 'making money' or hopes to. Some are right in that there is definitely more to this then just the publicly released numbers show, but from the beginning people questioned how this investment and model would make money and payoff in the end, and there still aren't any answers.
While I can get behind the idea that the goal is to spend money now, make money later, I'm not sure how paying a guy like Lara who is a complete no-draw 700K for the Vanes rematch no-one asked for (I think he earned less than half that for the first fight) makes any business sense.
The PBC lacks that central figurehead such as Dana White, Roger Goodell, etc. who could answer these questions. All PBC has in this regard is Haymon, who himself remains in the shadows. Look, when you are an advisor lurking in the shadows trying to do right by yourself and other boxers, that's fine. When you are trying to build a brand and an entire league of sport you need someone that can field questions, concerns, and comments from the public.
As far as I can tell, the PBC operates much in the same as Haymon himself. There has also been a lot of confusion regarding how the PBC treats outside fighters and organizations. Does the PBC mention the other sanctioning belts? Does the PBC create it's own belts? Other than the 'PBC is bringing free boxing back!' taglines there is no consistent clear message on what the PBC is doing or hopes to do.
Also, you have a product that is split between a ton of different networks with no set schedule (Bounce TV??) and no consistent commentary team (each channel has their own lineup). Unfortunately while the goal appeared to be to centralize boxing talent and the sport itself, it so far has only seemed to further fractionalize it as now we have PBC 'haters' and PBC 'fanbois'.
All this back and forth about how much money Eubank is going to get, why Jacobs is right asking for the same, etc etc....
Why is no one questioning the source? Daily Mail? May as well be a fart in the wind....
Yup just looked at their website, lead headline is how Obama's daughters landed in Madrid and it was windy. Oh and something about one of them having a henna tattoo, sounds reputable to me.
No they can't, fcuking idiot. Most Floyd opponents got less Ffs. Where do they find these idiots?
Yeah, gotta love people that say 'Lil g is nobody, isn't a draw, feasting on bums, can't wait for him to get exposed!'
These same people then justify so-called 'champions' turning down career high paydays because they 'can't blame them for wanting more'. If GGG is a nobody just waiting to be exposed, why aren't others taking the opportunity to do so for career high money?? I think I trust what the fighters themselves are saying by their actions then I do these keyboard warriors (accountants).
Again it isn't the prospect of losing alone that causes people to run, it's 'how' they may lose.
The ideal that Lara would shut up GGG's detractors is hilarious. Ward could have, but that fight didn't happen because of posturing on both sides. Being objective, I don't think Ward ever 'ducked' GGG, but neither did GGG 'duck' Ward. To say either is to be a fanboy (golovtard/andre bored fan, whatever derogatory term you want to use).
Amateur pedigree has nothing to do with professional rankings in any way.
The second part, fighting someone like Paul Smith, who was fat, out of shape and extremely undersized for the division should have ended in an early KO. Groves looked better against him, so that shows us Ward has lost a step or 2, especially with his subsequent performance against Barrera.
I agree, there is theoretically little chance of anyone at 175 beating Ward, apart from the usual suspects of Kov and Stevenson. But we don't base any sport or anything in life on what may happen. Right now, Ward HAS to beat Kov to be back p4p and that's the way he it should be. I think he does and if he proves me right, I have no problem in inserting him top 5.
The RJJ argument can go on for months but even at his worse, he was fighting better opponents than Brand, Smith and Barrera.
I disagree that amateur pedigree has nothing to do with professional P4P rankings. I think while professional accomplishment is the initial and by far more important aspect, the fact that guys like Ward/Lomachenko/Golovkin are such storied amateurs lends credence to the mindset that they are 'that good'.
If amateurs meant nothing in P4P lists, Lomachenko shouldn't be anywhere near even touching P4P lists, but he is in many's top 10. As a professional Lomachenko hasn't really beaten anybody to suggest he should be P4P.
And therein lies the problem in P4P lists, there is no real determination of how one becomes P4P. You seem to stress in ring professional accomplishments in the form of wins over highly touted fighters. I agree that should be a major aspect, but also think that the eye test plays a part in it. If the number of fighters you'd be willing to bet even money or favor over a certain fighter are extremely limited (1 or 2), that basically says that 'someone' you think pretty highly of.
There can be a lot of uncertainty as to just how good that fighter may actually be, but the fact remains for one reason or another you pick them to beat most others. Again this is a difference though, as I'm looking at P4P as 'how good do we THINK a fighter is' and you are looking at as 'how good do we KNOW a fighter is'. Neither way of thinking is wrong.
Ward's opposition post super six has been piss poor, no doubt about that. By the time November comes around, it will have been four years since he's fought a guy of merit.
However, all will be forgiven in should the Kovalev showdown go on. If wants to 'tune up' with the Smiths/Barerras/Brands of the world that's his prerogative. I personally think he should have sought out slightly better LHW opposition in preparation but again, seeking out and making a fight with one of the boogeymen of the sport will erase that stretch for me.
then why is canelo alvare avoiing the most lucritive fight in boxing?
if this guy sucks, and has done nothing, you take the easy money and you knock him out at the full 160 limit.
or do you drop the belt because you're that damn good?
He's not avoiding the most lucrative fight in boxing. He's taking it.
Liam Smith :notworthy
Canelo has already been involved in a superfight with Mayweather.
He can and will ALWAYS outsell GGG.
Alvarez in in the driver's seat...he'd be a fool to let some 97k flop selling OLD can crusher tell him when to fight.
Yup, and because Mayweather PICKED Alvarez he now has earned the right to AVOID GGG and outsell GGG fighting Liam Smith.
Yup, that makes sense. What a lottery to win, I hope someday I too can be as lucky.
At least Mayweather had the cajones to pick Alvarez, which even despite the 152 catchweight I give him a ton of credit for. Alvarez on the other hand...
Top 10 according to who? And those 3 lineal champions in a row who allegedly ducked lil g all had bigger more lucrative fish to fry and did exactly that.
And they were all smaller middleweights who were A-sides and who had every right to want concessions.
If Golovkin really wanted those fights, he'd have made them.
But there is a whole laundry list of younger fighters who have better resumes than GGG.
Look at the two welters fighting tonite.
Look at the names on their resumes.
Both men over 6 years younger than Golovkin.
Porter has Malignaggi, Broner, Brook, Alexander and one or two other world class or near world class guys.
Thurman has Collazo, Guerrero, Soto Karass, Chavez, Quintana, and Zavak as well as others.
Where are the names on Golovkin's resume that equal this?
Ishida? Stevens?
C'mon...
Hey listen, objective GGG fans aren't arguing that GGG's resume is awesome.
Fact is, it isn't.
But, he has fought the top 10 opposition and mandatories in his weight class that are willing to get in to the ring with him. All the fighters demanding MORE than just career high paydays to fight him certainly think more of him than you do.
Fact is, you named Thurman and Porter. I don't recall numerous stories of catchweights and people 'ducking' Thurman and Porter. GGG is a victim of his own skillset. Who wants to sign on for a potential career altering trucking?
As for Liam Smith being a 'bigger fish to fry'....careful, your bias is showing...
Like Andre Ward? Even Mayweather wasn't as bad or when broner magically appeared on the list, he had better recent opposition at the time.
ward's last 4 years have been prospect level opposition.
Personally I would not have him anywhere near a p4p top 10 but I know many of you would so which other p4p entrant, over a span of 4 years, fought bums?
I have to disagree with your sentiment that Ward shouldn't be 'anywhere near' the top 10 pound for pound.
In Ward's case, it's true he is still riding on the goodwill he gained winning the super six, as well as his destruction of Chad Dawson. Combine this with his amateur pedigree and....
While it's true that he hasn't fought anybody of note in nearly four years, P4P rankings are about as subjective as they get in boxing. Also keep in mind that most respected sources do not have Ward as No. 1 P4P, and they haven't for quite some time. When you have the past resume that Ward has, even if you are fighting outside contender types, you're allowed to still be on the lists because nothing in his recent performances has suggested he isn't the fighter that he was in the Super Six/Chad fights.
Now that isn't to say that much can be gained for those recent performances, he's done what he was expected to do against that level of opposition.
I personally like to think of P4P lists as who would have the most favorable odds on average in fights near or around their weight class against various opponents. From this perspective, Ward is most definitely 'deserving' of being on P4P lists. Besides Kovalev, who at 168-175 would you currently pick to beat Ward?
I think someone mentioned RJJ as another example of this type of ranking, and while I don't fully recall the ins and outs of his P4P timeline, I do know he went through stretches of fighting no-hopers and was still highly thought of.
The same scrutiny? No not really, but scrutiny? Sure.
GGG was going after the biggest names he could as middleweight champion at middleweight, and they all pretty much ducked him. Canelo as middleweight champion did not do that.
Also I put current Brook above Pre-Canelo Kahn, so there is that as well.
Now that being said, this fight doesn't really do much in terms of building GGG in my opinion. May build his brand in Britain a bit but the fact that Brook is moving up two weight classes diminishes his 'name value' significantly in terms of GGG opponents.
Not sure what this thread is really about, as BraZ (at least in the fights I've seen of his) has always looked like this. In fact, he appears to be in a hair better shape then usual.
That being said, I don't see him winning vs. Joshua, who I see getting a KO by round 5 or so. I see his best bet being landing something early that lets Joshua know he's there and takes some of the power out of him, then proceed to outwork him in the later rounds. Not impossible, but I don't realistically see it happening.
Thoughts....
BraZ had basically no hope as expected. I had called a 5th round TKO, got a 7th. Chin was slightly better than expected and he stayed in it to win (unlike hotpants Martin), so props for that.
AJ has serious power, but man does he look robotic at times. I do think someone with some movement and more quicks like Fury or Wilder could present a bit of trouble for him. The question with those two is whether or not they could take a solid shot to the chin from AJ, which presents some interesting fights IMO.
I would most definitely favor Ortiz over the AJ I saw tonight.
Ok so now we are going by bogus unofficial fight night weights that we either don't know or are completely inaccurate to determine what weight class a fighter should be at? Funny I can go up and down in weight and point to dozens of fighters who rehydrate as much if not more then Canelo yet nobody says this garbage. Maidana when he fought Floyd on the same unofficial weight scales for Showtime weighed 1 single pound less then Canelo did against Floyd. So is Maidana a mother fuking Middleweight and should fight GGG too? Or is he just a welterweight who adds a lot of water weight on fight night? If you make weight I could care less what you think he weighs on fight night. He's never fought higher then 155 and never fought a 160lb fighter. And clearly he can still make 154.
First of all, we don't know he can clearly make 154. The logic is he's made 155 a lot recently, and it's only 1 pound. But the fact remains he hasn't been at 154 in a WHILE, and there is a reason for that. And that is because that extra pound is HARD for him to do. Not impossible, but HARD. He could negotiate his extra pound into things because he had the star power to do so. If that pound meant nothing to him, he wouldn't have negotiated it.
That being said, I think he will come in on weight vs. Smith. It will be HARD for him to do, but he will be motivated to try to fit your narrative.
You were the one bringing up weight as a potential reason the fight isn't happening....that Canelo is a JMW and not a MW. Why did Canelo say he would fight GGG at 160 then? What was that for? Why if he is really a JMW is he saying he is 'prepping' his body for MW? What does that even mean when your first step in preparing is to take on Liam Smith?
I think we've reached the end my friend.
As far as Canelo being a disgrace, just ask Ramirez, or Chavez Sr, or Duran what they think about it. You know, some REAL Mexican warriors.
This 100%. When you have legends from the man's own country shaming him (JCC etc), it is VERY surprising that you still have fans somehow trying to defend this duck. Apparently these old-timers fail to understand that 155, when my body is ready, GGG-'who is he', don't constitute 'fu%king around'.
Youre a promoter - who do you fight? some guy that fights every two years or a undefeated champion that will position you to win another world title and unify? ok then.
Aaaaand herein lies your problem. Why are we, as FANS of boxing, to be thinking like a PROMOTER?
As a fan, I'd much rather see Canelo/Andrade than Canelo/Smith. And I'd ratehr have Canelo/GGG then Canelo/Andrade.
You'd honestly rather watch Canelo/Smith?
It's not that we 'don't get' why Canelo chose Smith. We get it, doesn't mean we have to like or approve of it.
Nope. It's clear as Phuk he's moving down to shut GGG and his idiot team and fans up. Proving he is a god damn jr middleweight and it ain't no thang to drop 1 pound to grab another belt. Canelo has made enough better fights (Floyd, Trout, Cotto, Lara, ect) at age 25 to earn the right to make the type of demands he has for GGG. When will GGG who is 34 step up ONCE to make a better fight for his fans? By GGG standards Canelo fighting Smith is blockbuster. LMAO Better then Wade and Eubank, Monroe, 3 of the last 4 GGG fights and only Lemieux is slightly better (and that's arguable). Those are the names GGG has fought in the last 2 years while he begged small jr middleweight to fight him. Refusing to do what he said he would YEARS ago which was go to 154 or 168 for the better fights.
This argument of Jr. Middles and single pounds is especially hilarious considering come fight night Canelo weighs just as much if not more than GGG.
So something I've learned about you, you're a big fan of making money and one's ability to cut weight. Under those guises, you are correct, Canelo can do what he wants and is winning the battle against GGG.
Rewatch the last round without the fanboy goggles. Golovkin was punching himself out and Brook wasn't going down. Golovkin's shots were losing their pop.
Brook was like "is that all you got?"
You're right, it was my 'fanboy headphones' that must've caught Brook in the corner after round 4 looking done and saying to Ingle 'I can't see....', to which Ingle had to try to pump him up by saying 'this is what it takes to be great, I'm watching every moment....'
Why didn't Brook vehemently protest the stoppage? Who cares if he couldn't see? GGG apparently wasn't hurting him, so what harm was there in him continuing? Please, if someone wants the fight stopped because they can't see and their eye-socket is broken, they are hurt, regardless of whether or not they say they are.
Let's be clear Smith is better then Wade who GGG just fought and Eubank who he is trying to fight next. Dude has a belt and according to ESPN rankings right now is higher ranked then Eubank and Wade ain't even in nobodies top 10 ranking now or at the time he fought GGG.
Let's be clear, it's pretty bad that you have try and justify Smith by noting GGG's mandatory and the fact that 'the Dude has a belt'. GGG fights 3-4 times a year, and yeah, to keep all his belts he occasionally has to fight a Wade. And when he does it, it's HBO, not PPV.
Who has he Liam Smith fought to justify him as a main event opponent on a PPV??
Just because GGG has no fanbase and has to be matched with a top fighter just to grab one PPV appearance where he couldn't even sell more then 150k don't mean jack. Canelo is at a level where NO MATTER who he fights it will be a PPV fight. And I've never said Smith is a top fighter. But the fact he isn't and has a paper belt and IS STILL better then most of the guys GGG fights and clearly better then the guy he just fought (Wade) and the guy he will fight (Eubank) next speaks volumes to the caliber of fighters GGG fights. Shoveling crap and using the mandatory excuse. Sad part is Canelo is 25 and GGG is 34 and still fights bums like this and his fans still refuse to hold him accountable for not moving the Phuk out of 160 for bigger and better fights.
So your a fan of business over boxing? You basically just said Canelo is great and can do what he wants (in this case, fighting Liam freakin' Smith) because he is a cash cow.
You're honestly ok with that logic?
Take your dislike of GGG out of the equation for a minute. Are you honestly ok with a superstar like Canelo fighting Liam Smith on PPV?
Also Eubank Jr. > Liam Smith. If you want to use a difference in top 10 ESPN rankings (9 and 8, respectively) that's your perogative. Those of us that actually follow boxing matches and not just concerned with 'business' know better.