BBomber

I think that's a decent enough theory, but I don't think it's a given. I mean this fight has been on the table for most of this year and maybe even a little of last year (idr the exact timeline so feel free to correct any confusion I have). If Ward can't be ready for Kovalev with almost a full year if not a full year and change I think maybe we've seen the best of Ward or at least he's on the slide. People have seen certain guys of this era performing at a high level for a long ass time i think. The reality is most great fighters were shot or shadows of themselves by their early 30s. I think that's pretty normal. Opponent, age and weight matter. Just a couple of recent examples: At 147 , Pac ' approach is much less aggressive. Same for Floyd, at 147 and above he was way more cautios and less active. As for opponents, GGG did not fight Lemiuex the same way he fought Brook.

I think it'll be pretty much what we've already seen from round 3 onwards, with Kov landing even less. In my opinion Kov made it look closer because his power is real, but Ward was controlling the pace of the fight most of the times. Even round 1 (a Kov round on all cards) was closer than people think. Aside from that eye catching jab Kov did close to nothing, while Ward was effective with his jab to the body. Kov "stole" the round, didn't dominate it. If you score full rounds and not only the eye catching moments in each round 7-5 Ward is a fair score.

if middleweights were afraid of me i'd take money to let them walk away :lol1:. cotto was blatantly avoiding golovkin. quillin. martinez. canelo made a new weight class. there are others. you get the idea. you don't crap on a potential fight if you're willing to take it. if you want to figure out who is ducking who, listen to their promotors. if they build fights they're willing to take them. if they're crapping on them it's probably a duck. Which is fine. But if you accept step aside money, you cannot complain if people find your resume weak. You cannot have it both ways. And these step-aside fees is exactly what is slowing down GGG's carreer. By hoping/waiting to get Cotto or Canelo, they got to a stall point, and as long as they have that mandatory spot, they won't risk a L at 168 either. It is what it is.

you seem to think that golovkin can force these guys to fight him if he "really really wants to!" the delusions in boxing are so f#cking strong. what possibly makes you think this way? i really want to know :lol1: golovkin wouldn't turn down a small sanctioning fee to get a chance to beat up one of the biggest stars in boxing and vault himself into a new tax bracket for the rest of his career :lol1:? right. golovkin is the most avoided fighter of the last few years. you've either got an agenda or are deluded if you disagree with that. cotto, martinez, canelo, are some of the bigger draws at or around MW in the past several years. all have blatantly avoided him. blatantly! no other fighter comes close to being that highly avoided. when golovkin was promoted in europe, sturm was one of the biggest MWs on that continent. i don't think they were great fighters but many of the top MW and SMW of the last 10 years have been european fighters. they're not moving to 168 because the fights are tougher, and the big fight is with canelo alvarez, who certainly won't be moving to 168 lbs if he's creating a new weight class at 155 lbs :lol1: i am an andre ward fan. lot sof people think i'm some kind of fanboy, and i'm not. he's one of the planet's best boxers, and its' most underrated boxer. a dog loves a bone, so i love andre ward. i love golovkin, too. dude's a breath of fresh air when guys are slicking around the ring and boxing for points. i'm quite impartial about their careers, if you care to read my stuff. i don't think it's reasonable to move to 168 lbs to chase a fighter who is clearly a 175 lber now virtually all of the MWs have either avoided golovkin blatantly, or gotten beat up by him :lol1: moved slowly doe. I never said he could have gotten to fight this or that guy if he chose a different path. I am simply stating that: a) If you keep on seeking a big money fight, you cannot afford to take a L b) As you said, 168 would be tougher, and the move makes no sense if your objective is set for a big fight at 160. So, it is rather obvious that by accepting step aside fees to eventually fight somebody, you force yourself into a position where you resume will not improve by much. Without all this bs started with Cotto Martinez and continuing with Canelo and the step aside fees, GGG would have a better resume by now. Probably would have moved to 168 to fight guys like DeGeale or Froch because I don't see Cotto or Canelo challenging GGG for the belt.

lol @ you acting like golovkin or his handlers could force cotto to fight. "they were just in it for the step aside money." Let's be frank or a moment, Cotto had no interest whatsoever in fighting GGG. I always said Cotto should have vacated right after Martinez, instead he chose to keep the belt for leverage in the Canelo fight. However, whatever the outcome, Cotto wouldn't have fought GGG under any circumstance (can't even blame Cotto for that). I hope Canelo will fight him, but GGG's resume stays poor and he only has himself (his team) to blame. They chose to chase an impossible fight against a former 140lbs at the end of his carrer, instead of using their mando status to get the belt and move forward. GGG's team act as if Cotto is either delusional, suicidal or both thing at once. That fight had 0% chances of happening.

I dont want handed anything to GGG for free but i dont understand the fans who are ok with Canelo holding a title at 160 and refusing to fight his mandatory at that weight and then ***** about golovkin getting it for free... . It is not about being OK with that. Canelo should fight him at 160,no doubt. He drains himself to make his 155 catchweights anyway. With that said, things being what they are, GGG would be extremely stupid to refuse a catchweight, or whatever concession he has to make. Beating Canelo would be his signature win and he needs Canelo soon, being 33 already. Beating an Andy Lee on the other hand, would do absolutely nothing for him.

GGG was hoping to get Martinez, then Cotto, now Canelo. This creates a stall. As long as GGG thinks that a Canelo bout might be around the corner, he will not fight a guy like Lara. Lara is good, but not only. He can and would spoil, potshot and make GGG look silly at times. Even if GG would be the favorite, I doubt it'd look good.

You can spin it as you like but this fight remains ****e. Rosado? Clottey?, leave that be Saul should be fighting GGG.

I agree that this would be the wise path - except he shouldnt pay "step aside" money. He should just vacate the title. No he should not. He paid the fee, he got the belt, he could have decided otherwise. Besides, people here are exaggerating, GGG has shown some flaw, and Canelo is much better than anybody GGG has fought. A 55-45 fight with Canelo being the underdog. As for him not being a MW. He never fought a MW, true, he fought welters and super welters, his oppenents were not MW, but HE was and still is.

From a technical stand point , it was horrible. One wasn't throwing at all, only pawing his jab. The other was sloppy, only throwing to score points and frustrate Wlad. Tactically, it was nothing special. Fury was smarter on the inside and used it on his advantace. Strategically, it was interesting in a rather funny way, with Fury looking like a tipsy, uncoordinated version of Ali and Wlad, unable to find the distance with his jab, doing nothing at all, mesmerized by the masterplan. It was not a good fight, at all, but it was a very entertaining event, as a whole. A caricature of a great fight, but entertaining.

Would be a good fight. fanboys speak of how GGG has ATG potential, well, he's 33, if he wants to prove something, he'd better start now. At this stage, his only chance to get even close to ATG status is to K.O. Lara, Canelo and Ward, thus he'd better get started.

Because Lara would be the best name in his resume. Next question?.

Nice exercise, not sure I agree with these stats though. HW has some interesting up and coming, but apart from Wlad they are all pretty untested. I do not think it's amongst the "deepest" divisions. MW , I assume, is so high because of Cotto and Canelo, both coming from lower weights.Neither of them has done much at MW. While i find SuperBantam quite low. Rigo , Quigg and Frampton make it a pretty decent weightclass, i find.

The answer to the question is no, it should not. But I disagree with the ts assuming that it does not already happen, fact is to many judges already give credit for ineffective aggression. IMHO a lot of the times you see a scorecard that doesn't match reality or the other scorecards it's usually because they felt one fighter deserved the credit as the aggressor regardless of how ineffective it was. Effective Aggression is in the eye of the beholder. Completely agree. And lol at officially scoring "ineffective" aggression. By these rules, I reckon you scored it as "ineffective aggression" in favor of Fury and Klit when they punched their own face? :D

I don't think Ward beats Kovalev. I actually think Kovalev has a stylistic matchup advantage with Ward. GGG has a nice jab but Kovalev's jab is a spear. I think Ward has enough speed and size to be able to jump in and grab GGG (not saying thats a good idea but thats another story) Kovalev has great foot movement going back and he doesn't just move meaninglessly. He'll step back and time you with a jab in the same motion, or take a halfstep back and try to counter...it doesnt have to land because he'll try to spin you too. The diff between GGG and Kov is that GGG is machine like and you feel like maybe just maybe you can out box him. Kovalev is a savage but you also have to find him... So while I think Ward has a style disadvantage to GGG as well, he does have good size on him. I've heard GGG does grappling training and is extremely strong so maybe Ward's size (clinching especially...we all know that will be the most integral part of his strat) might matter less..especially if he's dry at the weight. I believe you need an equalizer with Kov (Stevensons sheer explosive power is really the only one to worry about) and that he's too mean, skilled, subtle and devastatingly powerful with every punch in his arsenal to be outboxed at 175. I dont think Ward can outbox or outfight him. Kov's jab to the body would be extremely effective at keeping Ward from lunging in and clinching to stifle the offense. He'd take punishment to try and get any offense I agree with Kovalev being the more dangerous fight, he is a much bigger man than GGG, but I absolutely disagree with your analysis. 1) Technically, GGG is much more fluid than Kovalev, he throws better combos, mixes it up very well, while Kovalev mostly relies on straight punches.GGG is also better at cutting off the ring. 2) Assuming Ward is the same fighter as a couple of years ago, there is no way Kovalev wins by jabbing, countering and stepping back. Ward would keep the pace low, beat Kovalev to the punch due to superior hand and foot speed , making it a "boring" UD. Kovalev needs to be the aggressor, he is big, powerful and capable of clever aggression. Stepping back to contol range and to avoid walking into counters, as he did with Bhop , is one thing, trying to win a fight against Ward on his backfoot is an entirely different matter.

I don't see what's so difficult to understand. Really, no need to bring out speech acts, glottology and what not. GGG is on a hype train, he's starting to make good money and Ward would be likely beat him, which at this stage might kill the hype. It doesn't mean GGG is a bum, it simply means that Ward is a bigger man, a better, more accomplished boxer and it's hard to land on him. GGG would be the favorite against Canelo or Cotto, he'd be the underdog against Ward. The "i'll fight anybody" bs is just that, GGG is neither the first nor the last to come out with that. At least he's honest about " Ward being too much", it was too much yesterday, is too much today and will most likely stay too much tomorrow (unless he looks like total crap in his next fight, then perhaps).

This is a good one that was effective against Canelo: http://cdn2.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/304881/12.gif http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1807099/7.gif You can see Canelo looking for that uppercut but Floyd was able to smother him to avoid return fire. PS...This isn't a good site to have an intelligent, technical boxing discussion about Floyd Mayweather. His name just attracts too many bitter trolls. You can see how the thread plays out but expect a lot of flaming and immaturity. Great gifs! , if you happen to have gifs showing some other "trick" mentioned by the TS, please post them! :boxing:

I pick Ward by "boring" unanimous decision. A Mayweather vs Pac/Canelo kind of fight. Rather slow pace, with the offensive fighter starting to become tentative after a couple of rounds, then more and more frustrated as he can't "find" his opponent. In any case, great fight, may the best man win.

Very, very ood fight. Style wise it's a good fight for Canelo in my opinion, he doesn't deal well with movement but he's actually a very good boxer. GGG has the style to make Canelo look good and potentially enough power to knock him out. I think Canelo will land some beautiful shots, mostly counters and body shots. Will he try to get inside? how often?. He looks very strong, perhaps strong enough to push GGG back. GGG has a leaky defense and very little inside game. On the other hand he has power, a very good jab, good at setting up punches. I think Canelo's defense could be good enough to minimize the damage, altough creative GGG does not create angles on his attacks, it seems to me he creates angles by chasing his opponent most of the times. If GGG stands there and Canelo can neutralize his jab, it's gonna be a great fight. In spite of these advantages, still a 50-50 fight, or 55-45 for GGG, not more than that imo.

I don't think GGG should move up before getting a shot at the lineal title, maybe a catch weight with Chavez Jr could make sense, but I think he should focus on getting that damn title shot. Ward ... 168, up or down, he can move wherever he likes, it is fine as far as I'm concerned. But he he must finally fight. He's wasting his prime years inactive , such a waste of talent. I would like Rigo to unify at 122 if possible. he's a really small guy, but with his talent I think he'd be standing his own also against bigger guys. Donaire was much bigger than he already though. The one that should really move up is the Super Junior Middleweight Champion Saul Alvarez. Why 155? Either make 154 or, if you can't, move up.

That likely have never competed in any sporting event in their life at a high level, all they do is talk and give an opinion just like you, me and many more their opinion isn't any superior. If anything looking at that list they compiled it looks like a load of rubbish, there are names that should be on it but then there are names on it for the sake of trying to come across elitist. I've used the example before and I'll use it again, football players like Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi, Eden Hazard they all are great footballers they'd fit into any era and they'd likely be ahead of the past eras best footballers, as time goes on things improve. Facilities get much better, players become more skillful, faster, stronger I could go onto a football forum and say Ron Harris is the best CB ever and he makes the current best look like crap but we all know that is a lie. These lists are just facilitated to make the past generation look better and these historians are the most biased bunch about. That's absolutely not true. You obviously don't know **** about football. Messi and Ronaldo are great players, but they could have never played as they do now in the past. The game has changed hugely, now the physical contact is minimum, you can get a red card much more easily. Back in the 80's and for most of the 90's the game was much slower and based on man marking. If you constantly tried all those fancy dribblings and passes back then, you'd be very likely leave the field on a stretcher after their central defender beated the **** out of you on and off the ball. There also weren't so many cameras and nasty things would happen, especially if you tried those fancy tricks.

They don't normally throw more, they throw less. Guys like Hopkins make up for that with a great ring generalship. As for Ali, he had already shown his toughness, his last few fights were unnecessary legacy -wise and dangerous for his health.

Stevenson got rob in the amateurs. How could you explane this, inside a fight of 4 rounds of 2 mins each, how can it be possible for the boxer who felt 4 times on the canvas, to won the fight. Is there a logical explanation for that: YES, it's a robbery. Believe me, I want that fight to happend as much as the haters do, because Stevenson will easely destroy Jean Pascal. You dont know Jean Pascal weakness point, but since 2005 Adonis Stevenson do. Now, I did not watch them fight in the amateurs, but there are other logical explanations other than a robbery. Like landing more clean punches. Even with the new rules the difference between amateur and pro scoring is that a knockdown does not count for anything. You should still judge the round as a whole.

He does counter , his left hook to counter a right hand is his favorite counter, and it works. His problem more than countering is defense . He is not a pure boxer, he is more of an aggressive counter puncher, eager to eat some shot to get mid range and land his trademark left hook. In other words, he's not about the sweet science , hit and not get hit . His mentality is a brawler mentality, but he does counter punch.

Well I did say that in my post. I think Tyson was very well schooled, but he did still have his faults. I think Tyson had problem with bigger, longer fighters. He went the distance against Bone Crusher Smith and Razor Ruddock. Both hit him a lot and they were tough fights. I just think when you look at the complete list of HW that have ever fought, there's no way I can put him top 10 as some do. He was a hell of a fighter, devastating puncher, and incredible character outside the ring. Tyson will always be that feared monster just destroying people but let's remember the era he did it in. It's the same reason I think Roy Jones is slightly overrated, he never had much competition in his prime to really give us that defining fight. In my opinion his biggest flaw was his lack of inside game . Tyson vs Tillis is an example . Tillis spoiled and clinched a bit, but what striked me the most was Tyson's inability to fight on the inside or out of a clinch . At mid range Mike was phenomenal, but he lacked inside game if you ask me. Also Holyfield took advantage of it, albeit vs a different version of Tyson.

That's exactly what it was, a cowardly act and it amazes me that you would defend such a low act in the ring like that. The reason Tyson bit Holyfield, was because he couldn't beat him. This idea that Tyson fans say about Holyfield using his head and fighting dirty is a complete joke. Tyson was one of the most dirty fighters ever. I saw him try and break Frans Botha's arm, hit many fighters after the bell, fight them in the press conference and of course the famous Tyson elbows. Holyfield was the first fighter to really bully the bully. He wasn't taking any of that sh1t from Tyson and pushed back. When Tyson realized he couldn't win, he looked for a way out and he bit him. It was the definition of a cowardly act. Sorry but the 80's and early 90's were not a good time for HW. The talent was marginal at best. He unified the title by beating Pinkland Thomas, Trevor Berbick and Tony Tubbs if I'm not mistaken. Not really legendary names when you compare the HW division to previous decades. You cannot clearly say that and you severely underestimate Holyfields ability to fight. Tyson may have been better schooled in terms of head movement, and the Cus Demato style, but Holyfield was a great inside fighter and his resume is better than Tysons. His wars with Bowe alone show the heart that beats in that mans chest. Holyfield IMO was twice the fighter that Tyson was, and it's not even close. You had to kill Holyfield to beat him, and his chin was iron. Again, I loved watching Tyson even though I was never a fan of his. He was one of the most devastating punchers ever, but that doesn't mean he was top 10. His opposition was marginal at best, he folded in the biggest fights of his career, he was undisciplined and was suffered the worst upset in the history of boxing. Tyson IMO was a about 14-15th on my list of all time HW's last time I made a list. I agree , it was Iron Mike's way to quit . 14th or 15th in an ATG list is a very good ranking , I don't argue with that either. What I disagree with is your analysis of Tyson as a fighter. In the early stages of his carreer he wasn't only a bully with a big punch . Head and upper body movements, feints , bob and weave , combination punching , choice of punches , speed, balance, discipline and work ethics. I think Cus D'Amato did a great job with young Tyson, even with his personality. If I remember he was not aggressive at all. He was a polite guy , shy even. I remember a TV show in which he was almost scared to sit next to Ali and ...i think it was SRR? ...not sure. However, the Iron Mike persona was created later , gradually. After going to jail though Tyson was pretty much the fighter you described: undisciplined, dirty , relying on his power which in my opinion wasn't even so amazing without speed and superbe conditioning.

Takes a real egotistical motherf*cker to think the God you believe in will help you beat the sh*t out of another human being, or you think God actually did help you beat the sh*t out of another human being. Andre Ward knows, that's why he hugs instead of punching and why he doesn't want to fight anymore. Lol And in religious terms calling oneself "Son of God" is actually blasphemous. The term "Son of Man " is used throughout the old testament to specify the mortal nature of men, even prophets , as opposed to the "Son of God", the anointed, the Messiah.

The stats only show that Maidana is easy to hit , something we already knew. Mayweather hasn't "lost his legs" as a whole , he can still take a shot, although he looked much more vulnerable, scared to get hit almost. He has slowed down, both in terms of pace and output. His reflexes are a notch slower than they used to be. It's only normal, the man is almost 38 , fought as a pro for 18 years.

Golovkin's power isn't in question, he's arguably P4P the hardest puncher in the sport. Only person raising that question here is you, I'm simply saying it's important to note what kind of effects Canelo's early assault would have on Golovkin, as he's the likeliest to test that theory first. Maybe Golovkin has seen better punchers, maybe he hasn't but it's entirely different when that power is thrown in combinations. This has become a useless back and forth, you refuse to see that Canelo's power brought on the negativity Lara displayed and killed Angulo's spirit. You can keep questioning it though, I've seen that happen time and time again. I just know Golovkin will give Canelo all the counter punching opportunities needed to answer what I'm looking for. I only now read your previous replies. If I got it right you think/know that Canelo would try to bring the fight to GGG, get off first. It is not unreasonable but it is extremely risky. GGG is the kind of guy that can hurt almost anybody with one punch. Get off first, transition to defense, counter in the pocket. It is easier said than done. One mistake, one punch he doesn't see coming and it could be the end of the night. As for fighting on the inside, GGG has a very good jab, I do not think it'll get to who is pushing who where. And Saul doesn't normally fight like that. In my opinion Canelo would end up fighting off his backfoot pretty soon, allowing GGG to dictate the pace. And that would be when he needs to move. However, it's a fight I'd like to see, more so than GGG vs Cotto.

If (prime) Sergio makes it to the 12th I can see him getting a decision. In any case I think he'd go down at least once.