1Assassin

merchant is always biased, before and after the fight. hes a hypocrite too, you could tell he was mad at the outcome. compare his reaction to when pavlik knocked out taylor or tarver KO'd jones, the guy is so biased and unprofessional its not even funny. he tried to take marquez' win away before it even started with the PED accusations while completely ignoring the fact that roach trained fighters in the past knowing they were on PEDs too. then ofcourse after the fight, not only asking if his power was diffrent but asking manny if he "just got careless" trying to imply that its what pacquiao did bad and not what marquez did good that lead to the outcome and it would have been diffrent if pacquiao hadnt made a mistake. merchant is an idiot.

the few people in this thread who are claiming they were taking up for williams are flat out lying.........i remember that thread & everyone was on a rampage :lol1: fu*k you man. acting like you know every post ever made. i did have williams' back, im a bigger fan of williams than i am pacquiao. matter of fact im not a pacquiao fan at all yet i dont mock him, i never dissrespected any fighter for losing. i have too much respect for them and the sport to do that. dont call ppl liars, especially when you are just talking out of your ass. you really expect ppl to think you read every single post the day after martinez-williams II? you are the liar, fu*k off.

Mayweather could tear in to Pacquiao and many probably thought he would, but he chose not to kick him when he's down. ofcourse he wouldnt do that, hes got more class than that. im not saying floyd is classy bcuz he isnt, but hes more classy than making fun of a fighter for getting his brains scrambled. in other words floyd is more classy than most ppl around here, if that doesnt make some ppl take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror i dont know what will.

Man, I'm glad Marquez won last night, but this stupid thread makes me wish a a scandal about peds arises so that the defeat is diminished and the Stans stfu about a fighter who wasn't even in the ring!!! How can Floyd's legacy enhance? If anything it's in stalemate. Oh yeah he beat, I mean dominated, the guy that knocked out el Pacquiao... But never mind the fact that it took Marquez 4 fights to knock him down and knock him out... its quite simple. by pacquiaos legacy being diminished mayweathers look better by comparison. it doesnt make floyds legacy any better, but if ppl had the best fighters of this era ranked: pacquiao mayweather marquez going in, after the KO pacquiao will drop under marquez but marquez is unliely to pass floyd bcuz of how one sided their fight was making it: mayweather marquez pacquiao hense changing floyds place in history even though he didnt enhance his legacy. kind of how floyd became #1 p4p by tarver knocking out RJJ hes now established his place as #1 of his generation through the circumstances surrounding the other fighters. personally i always ranked them like that so it doesnt change anything for me.

who's crying? ...telling floyd is a coward aint crying , thats stating the obvious.. a multiple boxing world champion is a coward and little puga talking **** on his laptop in the safety of his own home isnt? makes sense..

theres no such thing as a lucky punch. a fighter can dominate a fight, get sloppy once, get knocked out and its still not luck. its boxing, like emanuel steward used to say thats what seperates this sport from all others. the fact that one fighter gets sloppy in is a flaw on his part and the oponents ability to capitalize on any single mistake is a strenght on his part. and lets keep in mind pacquiao was far form dominating the fight, he had the upper hand but it was very competetive. but pacquiao always makes mistakes, thats always been a flaw of his. marquez has always been a sharpshooter that will make you pay for every mistake you make. that translates into trouble if you are manny pacquiao and its the main reason marquez had mannys number all these years. the punch itself was as masterful as you could throw. he clearly set pacquiao up, timed him and walked him into it while slipping a punch himself at the same time. anyone who argues it wasnt skillfully executed is a fool. in the past marquez would make pacquiao miss and counter him as he would get off balance, one of his biggest flaws. for this fight he decided to catch pacquiao coming in instead, bigger risk but also a bigger reward when perfectly executed. he pulled it off. you can say manny just made a mistake or got overconfident all you want to, its just pointing out his biggest flaw as a fighter. not much of an excuse.

show some class ppl. damn.. im not even a pacquiao fan but im not going to kick a man when hes down and mock him for losing. they put their lives on the line to entertain us, isnt that enough? you gotta try to take their dignity away too? i know KOs come with the territory of being a boxer so dont tell me that, im not saying we should baby him bcuz he got stopped. but we shouldnt taunt him for it either, theres alot of middle ground there. like giving him the respect hes earned.

Nobody said sh*t when it was paul Williams ... so please .... i did. i always stick up for fighters when all these no class having little kids around here are being dissrespectful. dissrespecting a fighter simply for losing isnt right. im not saying we should baby them and feel sorry for them, this is the sport they chose. but that doesnt mean we should taunt them for losing either. ppl ***** and moan about safety first fighters like floyd and hopkins, but when risk takers like manny and williams lose bcuz of it you turn around and taunt them for it. remind me again why fighters should risk their careers and their health to put on a show for us fans if we are just gonna mock them when it comes back to bite them in the ass. these are real ppl not TV characters, why should they bother? box safe and you are a coward, take risks and you are the laughing stock of the boxing world. ppl complain about how boxing is a dying sport but its better than most of you so called fans deserve.

link showing that you took up for williams or gtfo my point is it's not that serious.......... link or gtfo. you really expect me to go looking for a link thats over 2 years old to prove something to you? lol i never taunted a KO'd fighter, if you want to accuse me of doing otherwise you go find a link. im not guilty til proven innocent, its vice versa. although tbh i could care less what you think. and it is serious. these arent tv characters, they are real ppl. fighters have a lot of pride and its humiliating enough to get sparked out like that in front of millions of ppl, theres no need to kick them while they are down. ricky hatton attempted suicide bcuz of the humiliation he felt over being knocked out in such a brutal manner. it might not be serious to you but you arent the one in the pictures. whats worse is ppl also make fun of fighters if they dont take enough risks in the ring, its a lose/lose situation. box safe and you are a coward, mix it up and get caught and you are a laughing stock. fighters deserve better, they deserve respect.

Who has Marquez fought to rank him higher than Pacquiao? youre not serious are you? pacquiao fought bigger names but that doesnt always equal better fighters, especially under the circumstances he fought some of them. for example marquez knocking out either diaz or casamyor was a better win in my book than hatton, margarito, clottey, mosley or dlh were for pacquiao just to name a few.

you cant judge a fighter based on their worst nights, that should be obvious. especially in the HW division when anything can happen not to mention a fight where the critisized fighter comes back to win. louis and wlad both got rocked by less than stellar competition, they arent the only ones. anything can happen in this sport, thats part of what makes it so great. i wont get into who would win between wlad and louis bcuz frankly this thread aint worth it but ill say this much.. any fighter who goes in there hoping for the worst version of their opponent to show up is likely to take a beating. be it louis or wlad.

He is thinking he wants to fight the best and get paid a lot of money for doing it. Is this not what we want from our fighters to fight the best? the problem is you cant just go from fighting D- level fighters to A+ level fighters. especially considering the problems ward present stylisticly. pavlik hasnt fought a top fighter since 2010 when he lost bcuz he still couldnt handle the movement martinez was giving him. leading up to that fight he had been fighting C level fighters since losing to hopkins where he also couldnt handle the movement. now hes fighting another top fighter who will be presenting him with lots of lateral movement and again hes been fighting nothing but weak opposition tailor made for him stylisticly. if pavlik wanted to beat ward he would have fought better fighters not to mention fighters who could box, move and force him to solve their style. but doing that wouldnt earn him much more money than fighting bums and if he lost or looked bad the big paydays would go away. thats all pavlik wants, a payday. hes been sitting on his ass waiting for one and now hes getting it. but he hasnt put himself in a position to win which is something i also want from a fighter.

i wouldnt hold it against floyd or anyone else for fighting berto once he gets back on track. and if guerrero gets past him that means hes the real deal at these weights too so i wouldnt mind that either. floyd has no business at 154 so canelo and martinez are out, we all want to see the pacquiao fight first and foremost but we all know its unlikely so what else is out there? ppl just want to see floyd fight canelo and martinez bcuz they know floyd at 154 isnt half the fighter he usually is. me personally i dont want to see a fighter at a weight he isnt comftorable at even if it means two top p4p fighters wont fight one another. id rather see the best fighters in the same division fight eachother under even circumstances and there arent too many fighters at 147 better than berto not named mayweather or pacquiao.

It certainly could be construed that way though given that Vitali has never said anything like this in public before, I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. but that's just me. exactly. it can no doubt be considered racist but it doesnt have to be, it could just be a poor choice of words. knowing vitali is a good and intelligent man i dont think he meant to be racist at all, in fact im sure of it.

lara fought and won at a higher level than vanes. i think its funny ppl question laras chin when it hasnt really shown any signs of being poor, meanwhile vanes is completely untested at this level. even though he has much fewer fights lara is a more mature and complete fighter imo, i think he will win maybe even by stoppage.

Yes it was indeed very one-sided. I recall the headbutt statistic being 4-0 :) i saw it 2-0-2. not all the headbutts were wards fault, some of them were dont get me wrong. but bcuz he legitimately headbutted kessler once or twice ppl later assumed the other headbutts were his fault too even though that wasnt the case, some truly were accidental and as much kesslers fault as wards.

Carlos Monzon did not fight primarily in the United States, neither did the legendary legend-killer Joe Calzaghe, he just went there to end legends. which legend did he end in the US? bcuz hopkins is still going strong and roy was already done with. only legend you can make an argument he ended was eubank on british soil. joe himself is no legend either.

well if fighters from central america dont count it has to be monzon imo. you can make a case for lots of fighters though, so its really hard. eder jofre, niccolino locche, azumah nelson, antonio cervantes, lennox lewis, jimmy wilde, dick tiger, michel cerdan, pacquiao and fighting harada all have a case just to name 10. but for me its monzon.

There's nothing in my mind that would suggest Froch having a chance. He got beat uncontroversially and the scoring actually was kind to him. he wasnt outclassed like kessler though and the scoring was kind to mikkel too, i think someone even gave him a round.

Maybe his long reach, if he keeps using the jab it could be a bit of trouble for Ward. That's the closest thing to Pavlik troubling Ward though, not that it would actually mean trouble. no.. froch, dawson, green etc all had significant reach advantages over ward. you need to know how to use it though, ward has a much better sense of distance, better footwork and speed than pavlik. he will have no problems neutralizing pavliks reach like hopkins and martinez did. ward can outjab pavlik fairly easily imo, again hopkins did and taylor too when he chose to use it. pavliks jab and long range boxing skills are very overrated imo, his qualities are his workrate and physical strenght. he wears guys down butisnt much of a boxer, his jab doesnt really become effective until his oponents start wilting from the pace.

That's all i'm saying. I don't know what you got from my post. But Ward is going to win pretty easy. I said if there's anything close to troubling, it'll be Pavlik's jab with his reach if he actually uses it. I will not debate about how tough Pavlik is for Ward, because he is not tough for Ward. It seems like you are debating here with me like if I am a delusional hardcore Kelly Pavlik fan who thinks he has a chance to win, which I am far from that. the thing is it doesnt matter how long your jab is if you cant establish the range and it doesnt matter how heavy it is if you cant land it. pavliks jab is slow, his sense of range is poor for such a tall fighter, he never throws his jab at an angle, he uses a very limit variety of jabs, his timing and precision is bad too. take all that into account and his jab isnt all that good overall. kessler, froch, ward, both dirrell bros, stevenson and degale all have better jabs just at 168. ppl obsess about reach when it comes to the jab, im not saying its not an advantage to have a long reach but it isnt everything. ppl always obsess about power too but if you cant land power is irrelevant. just bcuz his jab is long and heavy doesnt make it good, there are so many more aspects to having a good jab which he lack.

All at the Welterweight limit of 147 lb. 1.) Khan vs. Josesito Lopez? 2.) Khan vs. Juan Manuel Marquez? 3.) Khan vs. Keith Thurman? 4.) Khan vs. Robert Guerrero? 5.) Khan vs. Victor Ortiz? How do you see these fights going? Myself: 1.) Lopez UD or mid-late stoppage 2.) JMM early-mid KO 3.) Khan decision (if he can last) 4.) Guerrero decision 5.) Khan decision 1. Lopez by TKO 2. JMM by murder 3. Khan by decision 4. Guerrero by TKO 5. Khan by TKO

No, i'm talking about the jab. Pavlik's jab is underrated. really? name a good defensive fighter he used it successfully against. even taylor was outjabbing him until he started gassing and while taylor does have a great jab himself hes got poor defense. that you can hit gary locket and edison miranda with a jab doesnt convince me you have a good one, hopkins and martinez both took it away from him easily and i dont see why ward wouldnt do the same. if he could take kesslers, frochs and dawsons jabs away he can take pavliks. pavlik has a long, heavy jab. but in terms of speed, timing, precision and sense of range its no good. any fighter with good headmovement and a decent jab of his own will take it away from him. i dont want to keep brining up the hopkins fight but it truly is a perfect example, hopkins didnt do anything extraordinary to take it from him either. just basic boxing skills.

Juan manuel marquez is just a solid gatekeeper too, right? look, i think hes stupid too. cotto is obviously far from a gatekeeper, he is one of the best of his generation. but he isnt on par with JMM, you cant even compare them tbh. cotto had a great career but JMM is a living legend.

i would love that fight. i would have to give an edge to russell bcuz of his amateur background and superior boxing ability but there is alot we dont know about both of them. one thing we do know is they can both crack so anything could happen.

I don't know if Lennox Lewis will fall under the ATG category but he's been Undisputed Champ in his reign, thus his knock out loss to Oliver McCall comes to mind... mccall is far from great but hes no bum, fought alot of the best HWs of his time and beat a few of them and not just lewis. a real example is rafael marquez who was knocked out 3 times by extremely limited oposition, atleast two of which could easily be labeled bums. izzy vasquez was KOd by a bum once early in his career too. like mentioned before arguello was knocked out by garbage fighters. benny leonard was knocked out a few times by bums but back in those days boxing was different to say the least.

My scoring had Ward DQ'ed by round 5. After that I was too riled up to give a proper score. you seem to have been to riled up to make a fair evaluation of the fight in general. my guess is it started long before a single headbutt over the fact that kessler was getting a boxing lesson, being hit at will with clean punches while being unable to lay a glove on ward himself. if i was you i would be hoping for a DQ too, hell id be hoping for another fan man incident if it meant that ass whuppin' would be at least interrupted.

I know it's a somewhat laughable title cause journeymen aren't held in high regard anyway, but if there's such a thing as being overrated as a mediocre fighter, Zuniga is just that. This fight does absolutely nothing to advance James DeGale's career. I'm not sure if anyone's ever bothered to look at his boxrec resume, but his career record against opponents with winning records is 11-6-1. That should tell you all you need to know right there. But what's more, apart from beating two other very mediocre fighters in Alejandro Berrio who hadn't had a significant win in half a decade, and Antwun Echols who's also pretty bad, there's not a W against a recognizable name on his resume. Yet, amazingly, this guy keeps getting shot after shot against Kelly Pavlik, Dennis Inkin, Lucian Bute, Tavoris Cloud, and most recently Thomas Oosthuizen and winds up getting his ass kicked each time. And the fans are expected to think it means something when a fighter beats this guy just by virtue of the fact he's been in fights with these guys. If there are two things you can say in his favor, it's that he's durable-only been KO'd twice, so he's guaranteed to give DeGale a couple rounds, and his KO ratio is pretty good, although as I hinted at before, almost all his wins came against fighters with losing records. a journeyman is supposed to lose everytime he steps up. hes not supposed to be a threat, just provide rounds and he does just that. you say theres only two things in his favor, one being that hes durable. well, thats all a journeyman is supposed to be. he isnt supposed to advance degales career either, its a stay busy fight. a chance to apply things hes been working on in the gym and look good doing it against a guy who wont fall over as soon as he gets touched. like already mentioned give him some rounds. that he has power too on top of that makes him better and more dangerous that most journeymen. his wins over echols and berrio are better wins than the vast majority of journeymen have and yes the mere fact that hes been in the ring with so many champions is impressive for a journeyman. im not sure you know what a journeyman is supposed to be like, zuniga is a good one.

Haha. Nice trolling. you really think it was competetive? how many rounds did you give kessler?

im gonna go with khan. more skills, more speed, more heart and about equal intelligence. ortiz has more power and a slightly better chin but khan is the better fighter overall. ortiz has a punchers chance but i think khan would whether the storm early and break his will later in the fight.