How high do you rank Miguel Cotto?

First of all Cotto was still not the best Cotto when he fought Mayweather. Cotto was like you said beaten bloody by Margacheato. It was also not proven that he (Margacheato) did not use plaster. But somehow since he was caught Cheatos well known power "vanished". Mayweather said you are not the same when you are beaten, ask Hatton. Cotto beat a better Mosley (even if it a close fight) than Mayweather. Mayweather is the smartest fighter on the planet. He knows the right time to choose his opponents. So IF Cotto is not an elite fighter than Mayweather has beaten just a B+ fighter , who caused him some problems. Oh I forgot beating a smaller Marquez and outweighing him , beating a super lightweight Hatton makes you an elite fighter . Which was the fight in your opinion that Cotto should have taken to be considered as an elite fighter ? Mayweather beat Zab Judah and was knocked down by him but that makes Mayweather still an elite fighter right ? But when Cotto beat Judah that gives Cotto nothing but a win. I do not like it if somebody writes so much negative things about Cotto and discredits him. What the best have done and continue to do is being smart and fight the right fights at the right time and make people believe that they have beaten the best fighter in their primes. What I liked about Cotto was his warrior mentality his toughness his will and his character. Cotto is not the same fighter anymore since the fight with Cheato. He was not smart enough and accepted the conditions for the Pacquiao fight. Floyd would have never do that. Mayweather for example has skills but nobody gets critics for nothing. As of right know I am not interested in boxing anymore like I was in the past. I did not even watched one 24/7 episode of Pacquiao Marquez and I will probably just look for the result tomorrow. There is a theory, which is called "Game Theory" it says that if two instances are equally strong than none of them would dare to attack each other. Events which prove this theory are the cold war and in boxing it is the Mayweather vs Pacqiao or Pacquiao vs Mayweather fight. But Cotto fought in my opinion anybody in front of him and that made him an elite fighter. Bien dicho,,, Elite fighter he was, one of my favorite fights of his was against Lovemore Ndou, you could tell there was something special about the fighter...

very good fighter. good skills, decent power, average chin, poor stamina and a bit lazy if you ask me. he should still be fighting at 147, but i guess he likes his mams cooking too much. not a HOF fighter imo. I have a lot of respect for Miguel cotto, one of my favorites and I would rank him high in Puert Rican Boxing... I also always felt he gased to soon on many occations and he did seem better at 140,,, His life and Career has been too hecktic for a pro; --Issues with his uncle (never really figured that one out) --Marital issues(Probably let the fame get to his head early) --I also believe he was not very happy with Arum at the height of his game --His team said they needed to go to 147 cause 140 was too difficult to make --Legit or not; the Tony fight took a lot from him (i believe) --The new trainer seemed like more of a novelty than real progress When he started I saw him at the seland arena and I was impresed by the body work he used to do,,, Goes down as the only fighter convinced my brothers to root for a PR figher

Cotto is an unusual fighter in that he's built like a brawler but also has (had) very advanced boxing skills. (He's a boxer/brawler, for the umpteenth time - not a boxer/puncher) He was at one time the only legitimate boxer who used short punches on the inside rather than fighting with range from the outside. That's what makes him unique. He's a brawler who just happens to have the 2nd best jab in boxing, which is incredibly rare. He's also the hardest puncher Floyd Mayweather has ever faced (reference Paulie Malignaggi's commentary during the Trout fight). His jab is more powerful than most fighter's right hands. He's knocked two fighters down with a jab. Knocked out several fighters with body punches. Any time he's faced subpar opposition, he's destroyed them. Even elite fighters don't usually break down and demolish an opponent so easily. They just outclass them and win a clear fight. Cotto beats them up (see Gomez, Jennings, Foreman, Judah, etc.) Gave Floyd Mayweather one of his toughest fights and actually landed on him consistently, busting up his face. Very rare when Floyd gets hit at all, let alone shows damage all over his face. Even while being a shot fighter (Post Margarito I is a shot version of Miguel Cotto) he's been competetive with elite fighters.

yeah, beating an old ass Mosley and Yuri "the gimp" Foreman is truly Elite stuff. mosley wasn't at his peak, but he was looking pretty decent when he fought cotto, and put on a good showing.

Cotto was an elite fighter in three divisions and probably ranked #1 (albeit briefly) in all three. That may or may not be enough to get him in the Hall of Fame. He holds a win over Mosley and some solid opposition but I'm not sure he's got that standout, defining win and he did fall short against the very best. Regardless of where he ends up being placed, he was an excellent fighter in his time and certainly one of the fighters I truly respect everything about.

Disagree here. When Floyd fought Cotto, Cotto was at the most accomplished point of his career. Cotto, when he beat Mosley(which is very debatable), didn't even last 8 months before he was brutally beaten bloody in the first loss of his career in his fight against Margarito. And after that win, Margarito didn't last 8 months before he was KO'd by Mosley in his very next fight. Its never been proven that Margarito needed plaster fists to do it against Cotto either. Cotto avenged his loss against Margarito at 154, fought his way to the top and became the #1 reigning champion of the division. Let's be real about this. Cotto was never perceived to have ducked anyone elite because Cotto hadn't fought anyone considered elite until he got the win over Mosley. Same with Margarito .. except Margarito got beaten earlier by a very green Paul Williams, who ALSO lost in his very next match to the lowly Quintana. All this talk of ducking without any perspective makes comments boring and flat out untrue. The supposed "elite" were only "elite" for ONE FIGHT IN THEIR CAREERS! They didn't win even ONE FIGHT after the biggest win of their careers before getting embarrassed. Some so-called "fans" used the term duck to diminish what the best have done and continue to do. LOL what a load of BS...most accomplished point? He was most accomplished before Margarito battered him in the first fight. He fought a damaged Margarito at catchweight, beat a paper champion before that. :bottle:

At his best, Miguel Cotto was a very good fighter. He was never elite though, and far too many people considered him to be so. I think he's been consistently overrated in my time on this site, as much as any other fighter in the same time period. Who would you consider elite in cotto's weight classes?

Cotto's atg (in today's era if that makes any sense)on his willingness to tackle tough challenges. I like him more than almost every other fighter alive for that and have the utmost respect for him as a fighter. People keep up with this "fell short vs the elite" bullshi t. Well, guess what, manny would only catchweight him and floyd wouldnt come anywhere near him until he went through hell and back a few times in the ring. So fuk off with holding that against him.

At his best, Miguel Cotto was a very good fighter. He was never elite though, and far too many people considered him to be so. I think he's been consistently overrated in my time on this site, as much as any other fighter in the same time period.

yeah but Cotto lost that one. You know, he was a decent B+ level fighter The word "warrior" gets thrown around too much, "warriors" don't take knees, quit, and run away like he has done many times. He was B+, he beat the guys he was supposed to beat and lost to the ones he was supposed to lose to, his resume is good but not great and he was a bully type fighter who was great when things were going his way but not so good under pressure. I'm a big Cotto fan, his fights are ALWAYS exciting (except the Trout fight IMO), but I have to agree with all of this. He has a tendency to fold under pressure and start running..

:lol1::lol1:

Close fight, where Marquez didn't get credit for dropping Norwood. A lot of people felt Marquez won. Yes and we are talking about the legendary Freddie Norwood. :lol1: This one wasn't that close, John got a hometown decision and the 2 points they deducted Marquez finalized the robbery JMM admitted it was a close fight. The pt deductions were BS but with them, you can't argue with a draw or a John victory. it was pretty decisive... Barrera is a HOF and even at the time they fought he was a champion and Marquez was older. But again i'm not surprised because from the very start your post was to discredit Marquez. It was a close fight and a lot of people think Barrera won, and it was a post-prime Barrera who managed to drop JMM. Being past your prime has little to do with age, only an ignorant boxing fan would bring up age. wow really? LoL That sounds pretty bad specially if someone just looks it up on boxrec with out any circumstances or anything surrounding the fight. Lets just take out the fact that Marquez was in his late 30's going up 2 weight classes against a fighter that didn't even make weight, happens to be an ATG and got titles at Junior Middleweight. None of that is relevant at all. this just told me how much of a joke your post is. Floyd was 2lbs bigger than him at the weigh-in, big whoop. Still doesn't explain JMM losing every freaking round. Floyd made him look like an amateur, and he didn't even impose his size, he simply outboxed the guy and won every minute of every round, easy work. That kind of loss does affect your credibility as an ATG. Yea lets take Marquez's 3 biggest fights out of his career. Where he's fighting an ATG in 3 different weight classes LoL he isn't that great except where - He's beaten 10 previous or current world champions - Oldest Lineal Lightweight Champion in the history of boxing - 4 division champion (not counting the 5th robbery) - +8 World titles - P4P fighter for how many years 7? that's all aside from Pacquiao, yea he's not great at all. if he would've gotten the questionable decisions he'd be a 5 division champion, with 3 Lineal Champion ships, and around 15 world titles he gets no credit for that though....as he shouldn't because it's not official and different people feel different ways. But the fact that his career would suffer so much from taking one fighter out of the equation, it says something. His lightweight reign wasn't that great. He beat Casamayor who was past his best and was a joke of a lineal champ after his gift against Santa Cruz. He beat Diaz who had already been exposed by Campbell who was the #1 at the time. Then he fought Katsidis who was far from an elite fighter, and got dropped again. His JWW "title" is a joke of epic proportion.

Lost to Norwood Close fight, where Marquez didn't get credit for dropping Norwood. A lot of people felt Marquez won. but already you established that you're going to give the other guy the decision because it benefits and proves your point. :rolleyes: lost to John This one wasn't that close, John got a hometown decision and the 2 points they deducted Marquez finalized the robbery barely got by post-prime Barrera it was pretty decisive... Barrera is a HOF and even at the time they fought he was a champion and Marquez was older. But again i'm not surprised because from the very start your post was to discredit Marquez. was shut out by Floyd wow really? LoL That sounds pretty bad specially if someone just looks it up on boxrec with out any circumstances or anything surrounding the fight. Lets just take out the fact that Marquez was in his late 30's going up 2 weight classes against a fighter that didn't even make weight, happens to be an ATG and got titles at Junior Middleweight. None of that is relevant at all. this just told me how much of a joke your post is. Take Pacquiao out of the picture and Marquez's career is not so great anymore. Yea lets take Marquez's 3 biggest fights out of his career. Where he's fighting an ATG in 3 different weight classes LoL he isn't that great except where - He's beaten 10 previous or current world champions - Oldest Lineal Lightweight Champion in the history of boxing - 4 division champion (not counting the 5th robbery) - +8 World titles - P4P fighter for how many years 7? that's all aside from Pacquiao, yea he's not great at all. if he would've gotten the questionable decisions he'd be a 5 division champion, with 3 Lineal Champion ships, and around 15 world titles he gets no credit for that though....as he shouldn't because it's not official and different people feel different ways.

The word "CHAMP" get's thrown a lot here, I feel it should only be used for lineal champions. You can refer to Cotto as a competitive titleholder in 3 divisions, but not a champion in three. If we only had one belt, like back in the day, then Cotto would be considered for what he is, a decent fighter who became a top 10 contender in the three divisions where he campaigned. The idea that Cotto is "3 division champ" sounds as though he dominated three divisions, which is not the case. Title belts don't mean much these days, but people seem to forget that for some reason. I know you didn't post that with Austin Trout holding the "regular" WBA title in your avatar. :lol1: Irony doesn't even begin to cover it. Yes it's easier to become champion these days because of all the titles but still, how many guys have become titlists in 3 divisions? It's still a great accomplishment. I looked at your sig and realized why you don't consider gatekeeper cotto a gatekeeper,..... you just compared Marquez who went up 2 weight classes to best an ATG at almost 40. To Cotto who just got beat up by Austin fucking Trout :lol1: Cotto decisively lost to Pacquiao, Margarito, Mayweather, Trout and had close fights who people think he lost against Clottey and Mosley. His best win is who? a one legged Foreman? how many lineal titles has he won? any career defining moments? No? sorry you can't beat Zab Judah and Bailey and consider yourself elite. A gatekeeper is a past prime fighter who is used as a stepping stone because he isn't elite. Which is exactly what Cotto was used as. You even thinking Cotto and Marquez are in the same stratosphere is a joke. Cotto is not on Marquez's level of greatness but Marquez himself is overrated as hell. Lost to Norwood, lost to John, barely got by post-prime Barrera, was shut out by Floyd. Take Pacquiao out of the picture and Marquez's career is not so great anymore.

a warrior with great boxing skills who's not afraid of fighting anyone, after seeing his last fight I believe he should hang up his gloves but if he decides to fight again i'm Team Cotto all day... this^^^^^^^^ all day!!!!

An elite of his generation yeah, beating an old ass Mosley and Yuri "the gimp" Foreman is truly Elite stuff.

Juan manuel marquez is just a solid gatekeeper too, right? : Look, i agree with you on marquez and all that, but since we are talking about 'legend'....why is he a legend? Because hes a tactician who has been in some wars, not always coming out on top when he faced the elites? And this doesnt apply to cotto? 'Legend' is a weird term, and subjective, but yes i believe marquez is a legend. And i also believe, like many other fighters and trainers, that cotto is a legend. Im not trying to make anything out of comparing marquez and cotto. The guy just made the gatekeeper comment, and i looked at his sig...and voila I looked at your sig and realized why you don't consider gatekeeper cotto a gatekeeper,..... you just compared Marquez who went up 2 weight classes to best an ATG at almost 40. To Cotto who just got beat up by Austin fucking Trout :lol1: Cotto decisively lost to Pacquiao, Margarito, Mayweather, Trout and had close fights who people think he lost against Clottey and Mosley. His best win is who? a one legged Foreman? how many lineal titles has he won? any career defining moments? No? sorry you can't beat Zab Judah and Bailey and consider yourself elite. A gatekeeper is a past prime fighter who is used as a stepping stone because he isn't elite. Which is exactly what Cotto was used as. You even thinking Cotto and Marquez are in the same stratosphere is a joke.

i wasn't impressed with cotto's recent performances, he was about to be tko'ed by margarito, luckily the ring side doctor stopped the fight (all thanks to pacquiao), mayweather was a more stationary target and cotto could not capitalize, trout out boxed cotto who was suppoed to be the better boxer. as it stands now, cotto does not belong in any top ten list

:look, i think hes stupid too. cotto is obviously far from a gatekeeper, he is one of the best of his generation. but he isnt on par with JMM, you cant even compare them tbh. cotto had a great career but JMM is a living legend. Look, i agree with you on marquez and all that, but since we are talking about 'legend'....why is he a legend? Because hes a tactician who has been in some wars, not always coming out on top when he faced the elites? And this doesnt apply to cotto? 'Legend' is a weird term, and subjective, but yes i believe marquez is a legend. And i also believe, like many other fighters and trainers, that cotto is a legend. Im not trying to make anything out of comparing marquez and cotto. The guy just made the gatekeeper comment, and i looked at his sig...and voila