Prime JAMES TONEY Vs Usyk @ 200lbs

[Nay_Sayer]

A loss to a world champion at the time is considered a loss to a journeyman wtf. You know salido at the time was a world champion right?

A loss is still a LOSS, the fact that Salido was a title holder at the time does not change this simple fact.

Last I checked, Crawford was undefeated and Alvarez only has the loss to Mayweather.

Lomachenko hasn't done squat since losing to Salido which puts him above either.

Like I said, losses COUNT - and they get factored into the P4P equation..

[elfag]

Looking at some clips of Toney-Jirov and Usyk-Bellow,


Usyk is too mobile, too fleet footed and has too big a reach advantage for Toney to overcome at cruiser. Jirov's style is complete opposite of Usyk, likes to crowd and try to pressure, plays right into Toney's mid to inside range countering.

Toney would have a better chance with Usky at heavyweight strange as it sounds, last fight Usky looked more sluggish with the higher weight. Still think Toney loses no matter what though.


Usky basically has both the natural size advantage and the style matchup in his favor.

[Nay_Sayer]

What about Toney's loss to an actual literal journeyman in Dave Tiberi?

Ok, let's just say for arguments sake that I agree with this sentiment. How does this change the fundamental truth here - which is Usyk is *not* on Toney's level? It doesn't.

Salido was a top 5 guy atleast for portions of his career. Top 3 even. Tiberi was never even top 20. And he beat Toney way clearer than Salido beat Lomachenko too.

Toney's resume defecates and urinates all over Lomachenko's..

[IronDanHamza]

Ok, let's just say for arguments sake that I agree with this sentiment. How does this change the fundamental truth here - which is Usyk is *not* on Toney's level? It doesn't.


Toney's resume defecates and urinates all over Lomachenko's..

Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. He LOST. And loss's matter especially to actual journeyman like Tiberi.

[billeau2]

Tiberi, Thadzi, Sosa, Williams, Johnson etc etc etc all hit Toney more than Bellew hit Usyk.

Usyk would have no problem what so ever landing on Toney. None.

Bellew was not supposed to be able to touch Usyk and its silly to compare this statistic to a point of ridicule. Like exactly how much more one guy was hit should tell us a story lol? Actually Bellew was doing a nice job and ran out of juice.

[Long jabber]

Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. He LOST. And loss's matter especially to actual journeyman like Tiberi.

Yea because of his losses early in his career lets ignore all his accomplishments that cam after. What kind of logic is this

[IronDanHamza]

Bellew was not supposed to be able to touch Usyk and its silly to compare this statistic to a point of ridicule. Like exactly how much more one guy was hit should tell us a story lol? Actually Bellew was doing a nice job and ran out of juice.

Well you said Bellew hit Usyk a lot and used that as some kind of argument.

Yet Toney was hit a lot more by inferior fighters to Bellew (other than Johnson)

Yeah Bellew did a decent job. And? Dave Tiberi beat Toney easily so what's your point?

[IronDanHamza]

Yea because of his losses early in his career lets ignore all his accomplishments that cam after. What kind of logic is this

Already addressed this.

I'm not ignoring anything I am pointing out all the times that he struggled or lost to C level opponents (at best) and there are a number of examples where this happened.

It's you that pretend his fights with Williams, Sosa, Tiberi and Thadzi didn't happen and to a much less embarrassing extent Johnson, Griffin x2 etc

[Long jabber]

Already addressed this.

I'm not ignoring anything I am pointing out all the times that he struggled or lost to C level opponents (at best) and there are a number of examples where this happened.

It's you that pretend his fights with Williams, Sosa, Tiberi and Thadzi didn't happen and to a much less embarrassing extent Johnson, Griffin x2 etc

Were arent talking about 160 or 168 weight drained toney. Were talking about cw and hw toney

Lets see. Toney can take Huge punches and on his best night could dismantle and batter prime undefeateds like jirov(undefeated CW prime fighter) and rydell booker(toney after one year lay off .today out of prime and after spending years in jail rydell still gives top hws problems). Usyk the basic boxer puncher with good but not great movement who has yet to even capture a title at HW unlike toney doesnt stand a chance. Make your case

[IronDanHamza]

Were arent talking about 160 or 168 weight drained toney. Were talking about cw and hw toney

Lets see. Toney can take Huge punches and on his best night could dismantle and batter prime undefeateds like jirov(undefeated CW prime fighter) and rydell booker(toney after one year lay off .today out of prime and after spending years in jail rydell still gives top hws problems). Usyk the basic boxer puncher with good but not great movement who has yet to even capture a title at HW unlike toney doesnt stand a chance. Make your case

Erm, Toney was in his prime at 160 and 168 dummy.

Toney does not hold a HW title.

Jirov is garbage and the fact you keep using RYDELL BOOKER as some kind of gauge is as funny as it is sad.

Toney can't handle movement, he's shown that. Toney struggled and lost to C level fighters from start to finish.

Could he beat Usyk? Very unlikely but one thing he definitely would never do is "destroy" "dominate" or "clown" Usyk because he never did any of those things against a top tier fighter at any point in his career.