Prime JAMES TONEY Vs Usyk @ 200lbs

[Long jabber]

Lomachenko Rigo was @ 130lbs - where Rigo has done nothing. Nor had he did anything @ 126lbs. Beating Rigo @ 130 is essentially meaningless. Plus, losses COUNT. Unlike Lomachenko, Crawford lacks a loss to a journeyman on his resume. There is nothing particularly impressive about beating a guy who's coming up not one but TWO weight classes.

A loss to a world champion at the time is considered a loss to a journeyman wtf. You know salido at the time was a world champion right?

[billeau2]

- -Most scientists say there is no scientific basis for race.

U gonna go poof on us?

'This is a fact and it means a lot regarding this whole debate.

Another way to look at this? It is 2000 years into the future and they are digging up the city state of NYC...people want to know
"what race was a New Yorker?" Cities have changed remarkably little... They always attract the brightest, the best, the downtrodden and everyone else in between. Egypt was a great society based on the interplay, the conflict between her two great cities in the North and South.

The best data to use is linguistic like Martin Bernal did in "Black Athienia."

[billeau2]

Toney is a great fighter who has many flaws. He could be inconsistent and lose fights. He also could win fights, and like the guy he emulated, the great Archie Moore, Toney could fight up and down which makes it hard to pinpoint how his great abilities translate. Is he great because he went up and beat up Holly and some of the heavyweights? Is he great coming up and beating Nunn? considered a fighter that was going to do great things?

Im suprised nobody has mentioned Nunn...Nunn was a great fighter at the time he fought Toney.

I think at his best Toney takes Usk. Toney, again like Moore, had power along with his shoulder roll counters. As far as his footwork, part of it was economy of movement...You make the guy come to you when you can in Toney's way. Part of it is a weakness, and montell Griffith was a guy who would exploit that easily.

Would Usk exploit Toney's slow footwork? Well...He would have to be able not to get countered in so doing. Remember how Tony Bellew could hit Usk? Toney would be able to do so as well.

At his worse? Toney would lose and look bad doing it. He would look like he did against Jones.

[IronDanHamza]

Usyk is basic dude. Lol @ ur delusion of thinking a basuc boxer puncher with **** work rate aand an average punch beats an atg known for his iron chin in toney. He cant do anything defence and counterpunching is wayyy too freaking good for a basic fighter like usyk to do anything. Let usyk grab a title at hw like toney did before you start comparing basic usyk to atg james toney

Well firstly Usyk is obviously not basic.

Secondly, Toney never held a belt a HW.

Thirdly, how can you seriously argue that an obviously elite fighter like Usyk "can't do anything" with Toney when Toney lost to DAVE TIBERI in his prime??????

Toney struggled and lost to C level fighters numerous times in his career. That's just a fact.

Toney did nothing in his career to suggest he could dominate a top tier, elite fighter.

[IronDanHamza]

Toney is a great fighter who has many flaws. He could be inconsistent and lose fights. He also could win fights, and like the guy he emulated, the great Archie Moore, Toney could fight up and down which makes it hard to pinpoint how his great abilities translate. Is he great because he went up and beat up Holly and some of the heavyweights? Is he great coming up and beating Nunn? considered a fighter that was going to do great things?

Im suprised nobody has mentioned Nunn...Nunn was a great fighter at the time he fought Toney.

I think at his best Toney takes Usk. Toney, again like Moore, had power along with his shoulder roll counters. As far as his footwork, part of it was economy of movement...You make the guy come to you when you can in Toney's way. Part of it is a weakness, and montell Griffith was a guy who would exploit that easily.

Would Usk exploit Toney's slow footwork? Well...He would have to be able not to get countered in so doing. Remember how Tony Bellew could hit Usk? Toney would be able to do so as well.

At his worse? Toney would lose and look bad doing it. He would look like he did against Jones.

Tiberi, Thadzi, Sosa, Williams, Johnson etc etc etc all hit Toney more than Bellew hit Usyk.

Usyk would have no problem what so ever landing on Toney. None.

[IronDanHamza]

Lomachenko Rigo was @ 130lbs - where Rigo has done nothing. Nor had he did anything @ 126lbs. Beating Rigo @ 130 is essentially meaningless. Plus, losses COUNT. Unlike Lomachenko, Crawford lacks a loss to a journeyman on his resume. There is nothing particularly impressive about beating a guy who's coming up not one but TWO weight classes.

What about Toney's loss to an actual literal journeyman in Dave Tiberi?

Salido was a top 5 guy atleast for portions of his career. Top 3 even. Tiberi was never even top 20. And he beat Toney way clearer than Salido beat Lomachenko too.

[IronDanHamza]

Lomachenko Rigo was @ 130lbs - where Rigo has done nothing. Nor had he did anything @ 126lbs. Beating Rigo @ 130 is essentially meaningless. Plus, losses COUNT. Unlike Lomachenko, Crawford lacks a loss to a journeyman on his resume. There is nothing particularly impressive about beating a guy who's coming up not one but TWO weight classes.

What about Toney's loss to an actual literal journeyman in Dave Tiberi?

Salido was a top 5 guy atleast for portions of his career. Top 3 even. Tiberi was never even top 20. And he beat Toney way clearer than Salido beat Lomachenko too.

[Long jabber]

" hey James Toney lost to this journeyman a long time ago early in his career so obviously now he loses to anyone in a head-to-head matchup, Let's ignore his performances against top rated Fighters and people way above his natural weight class yeah seems logical"
-Irondanhamza

How ****** can you get

[IronDanHamza]

" hey James Toney lost to this journeyman a long time ago early in his career so obviously now he loses to anyone in a head-to-head matchup, Let's ignore his performances against top rated Fighters and people way above his natural weight class yeah seems logical"
-Irondanhamza

How ****** can you get

He didn't just lose to Tiberi. He argubaly lost and definitely struggled with Sosa, Williams, Johnson etc.

Also lost to Montel Griffin twice and Drake Thadzi.

So, no it's a lot more than one.

******ity is IGNORING all this evidence and claiming he'd destroy Usyk. When he did nothing in his career to suggest he could destroy a top tier fighter. He never did that, ever.

The irony is I don't ignore his performances, it's you that blindly ignore his string of poor performances against C level (at best) opponents.

I deal with facts and reality, you deal with baseless fantasy.

[QueensburyRules]

What about Toney's loss to an actual literal journeyman in Dave Tiberi?

Salido was a top 5 guy atleast for portions of his career. Top 3 even. Tiberi was never even top 20. And he beat Toney way clearer than Salido beat Lomachenko too.

- -After eating a dozen low blows and another dozen hits on the break, Loma had ****** Laurence Cole pulling him off Salido to keep him from getting KOed.

No matter, Loma exposed boxing and those fans wearing the filth of boxing as an entitlement trophy.