Tunney Versus jack Johnson who wins and why

[billeau2]

I am not challenging your position here but let's be real, London's number one concern was selling newspapers, then came his racism. This was the height of the Yellow Press and every story, even the sports stories were over written, and the big bad Negro beating on the gallant but small white man is a seller.

London also considered himself a man of integrity... its a hard call as to how much he was willing to Muckrake, or yellow the sheets (so to speak)... Its possible.

[billeau2]

Not excuses but factors that must be taken into account.
Choynski fought Johnson in1901 Choynski had 69 fights Johnson11.
Choynski was probably just past his best, Johnson was certainly nowhere near prime Pollack states Johnson weighed in the the region of 168lbs for this fight.
Choynksi was a remarkable puncher.especially for his size, a trap setter like Fitz , he caught Johnson and stopped him, its that simple.
Johnson was stopped by Klon***e in1899.
George Siler, the great referee is credited with discovering Johnson, he was at the fight and said Johnson had been existing on the food at free lunch counters and hadn/ a thimbleful of victuals in him when he faced Klon***e.
Johnson did well early, dropping Klon***e but ,weakening under his body attack was finally overwhelmed.Klon***e was a leading black fighter no disgrace in losing to him.
Johnson drew with him a year later and stopped him in their last fight that year.

1901 Griffin 30 fights beat Johnson14 fights over 20 rds.Griffin deserved the dec by all accounts
Later that year they drew.
A year later they drew again.

1905 The Hart fight is so controversial I don't use it as any kind of yardstick George Siler called it," an exceedingly strange decision."

1915 Willard.Johnson was in front at the time of the ko ,Jack Welch stated if he was called upon to render a decision after 20 rounds he would have unhesitatingly have awarded it to Johnson.
Johnson was37 years old ,overweight and past his best, years of dissipation had robbed him of his stamina,and the circumstances of the fight the venue and the distance, 45rds were all geared to give the white man the advantage.
No way was Johnson going to be able to win a decision at the end of 45rdsand koing the giant cowboy was always a hard task.
These are not excuses they are just cold facts. From1905 until1915 Johnson never lost ,that's a ten year run during which period he was hounded and in exile on the run from the US authorities.
We might compare that with the fighters today ,and the reasons they trot out for losing?

Those are all relevant observations. Choynski had a reputation that a contemporary fighter like Michael Moorer had: A fighter's fighter lol. Choynski was very good and kind of like the Kenny Stabler of boxing lol... A trickster with skills a plenty! What is most relevant about Johnson's fight with the Chysthinsium man (sp?) is how much he learned from him subsequent to that fight... Lets just say that "loss" paid for itself credability wise a thousand times over in knowledge gained.

Yeah Johnson came in unprepared for Willard... it is what it is...I would say that this was Johnson's decision.

[Ivich]

Still lying Tony? Attacking sources that don't have your agenda, how typical. How many rounds did Burns win again? Try reading the reporter known as the amateur on Burns vs Johnson. Yes, Burns has reports of a Jaundice. The book says so and so do experts such as Kevin Smith. Why do you lie so often? I listed Johnson's known fights for you. Count them up and take note Johnson lost an early one to a man who weighed between 135 and 145 pounds! Needless to say he had far more experience the 14 fights and was fighting since 1894!

Do the Masons know you lie so much?

KevinSmith?The man who came on Classic Boxing just once and that one time to tell you not to ascribe his name to your tales,
Burns did not win a single round against Johnson I have the round by round reports from 6 different contemporary papers.

Anyone wishing to know the truth should buy Pollack's 2 volumes on Jack Johnson, there are tons of primary sourced quotes and news reports in them.
You will never buy them because you aren't interested in the truth,all you want to do is push your Johnson hate agenda here.
Maybe they will eventually get tired of you here and ban you for it as they did on Classic?

As it is you're just a bad smell, like dog **** on a shoe.
Go peddle your hatred somewhere else I'm not interested.

[Dr. Z]

KevinSmith?The man who came on Classic Boxing just once and that one time to tell you not to ascribe his name to your tales,
Burns did not win a single round against Johnson I have the round by round reports from 6 different contemporary papers.

Anyone wishing to know the truth should buy Pollack's 2 volumes on Jack Johnson, there are tons of primary sourced quotes and news reports in them.
You will never buy them because you aren't interested in the truth,all you want to do is push your Johnson hate agenda here.
Maybe they will eventually get tired of you here and ban you for it as they did on Classic?

As it is you're just a bad smell, like dog **** on a shoe.
Go peddle your hatred somewhere else I'm not interested.

Oh he was there more than once. You lie again. I report what is out there, unlike yourself who offers selective reporting according to your agenda.

[QueensburyRules]

I'm just curious, but were Unholz claims ever substantiated, or were they just that, claims? And you do know anyone can edit wiki, right?

And the video shows Johnson pushing and beating him all about the ring. The commentary supports this and more. Poor little Tommy. Poor little Queenie.

- - Poor little Jabberwinkle. He expert on JJohnson wif out ever seen JJ/Burns fight in proper order.

Too busy lecturing NASA on Rocket Science...

[JAB5239]

- - Poor little Jabberwinkle. He expert on JJohnson wif out ever seen JJ/Burns fight in proper order.

Too busy lecturing NASA on Rocket Science...

I've seen everything you have, and I'm still not ****** enough to think Burns was at all competitive.

[Ivich]

Oh he was there more than once. You lie again. I report what is out there, unlike yourself who offers selective reporting according to your agenda.

He came on the forum to put you in your place for using his name to bolster your hate agenda.

[Ivich]

- - Poor little Jabberwinkle. He expert on JJohnson wif out ever seen JJ/Burns fight in proper order.

Too busy lecturing NASA on Rocket Science...

Break that down to, I am ducking the question.
Now do you want to go back and answer my points?
No ,of course you don't!


WANKER!

[The Old LefHook]

KevinSmith?The man who came on Classic Boxing just once and that one time to tell you not to ascribe his name to your tales,
Burns did not win a single round against Johnson I have the round by round reports from 6 different contemporary papers.

Anyone wishing to know the truth should buy Pollack's 2 volumes on Jack Johnson, there are tons of primary sourced quotes and news reports in them.
You will never buy them because you aren't interested in the truth,all you want to do is push your Johnson hate agenda here.
Maybe they will eventually get tired of you here and ban you for it as they did on Classic?

As it is you're just a bad smell, like dog **** on a shoe.
Go peddle your hatred somewhere else I'm not interested.

Ivich dresses down another one. Is there anyone on here you don't fight with? It's that superior knowledge of yours coming out.

[Willow The Wisp]

I think
Kaufman was in his prime. he was considered one of the leading contenders when they met.
Childs was a claimant for the Colored Title when Johnson beat him,he was prime.
Moran was prime and a leading contender.

Martin was the Colored champ and prime
Flynn was a leading contender and was prime.
Ditto Ferguson.

All true. Lively thread.