Mayweather with out question is a great fighter and an all time great IMO. But I was blessed to see Sugar Ray Leonard in his prime and he had the same qualities as Floyd but he had dynamite in both hands. Hearns was a monster in his prime too. As good as Floyd is, I put him one level below those guys. That whole era was talented. To beat Hearns and Leonard, you would have to do more than try and outbox them. Leonard saw that he couldn't outbox Tommy because the reach and height was just too much. He had to bite down and fight him. Floyd is great but he has always got by on skills alone. That just wouldn't happen if he fought those 2 guys. Duran and Pryor would have given him hell too. He would be forced to go flat footed and exchange with those guys. Pot shotting would just not do it in that era. Anyone that disagrees, simply go back and look at old footage of those guys. Floyd gave Guerrero a boxing lesson, but can you honestly imagine what Leonard and Hearns would have done to him??? Tommy would have crushed him early like in round 2 or 3. Ray would have showboated and had the crowd on their feet humiliating Guerrero until the KO came in the later rounds. That was just a completely different era than this.
the problem with your comparison of floyd vs guerrero and hearns/leonard against guerrero is that youre comparing a 36 year old floyd to the best versions of hearns and leanord
by the time those two were 36 hearns was a blown up shell of himself and leonard was done
i think it would have been a toss up for floyd in either fight
Do you know how much Floyd weighed? No you don't, so he could be weighed anything but since he says he never balloons up, that's fact, right? Man please. Skip the fact that the man came up two weight classes to begin with. When Floyd has all the advantages it's acceptable but when one thing goes against he has every excuse from his fans not to fight. It's comical
look at his 30 day weigh in weights and tell me that floyd balloons up on fight night ... at 30 days out against guerrero floyd was 148, but im supposed to believe that hes 160+ on fight nights? cmon son
I think Canelo at 154 is a challenge because a guy with size, that can pressure Floyd will bother him, and force him to fight a less comfortable fight than he's used to. And if there is a blueprint to beat him, I think its sustained aggressive pressure from a lager fighter that he can't control distance on. I'm one that says I'm happy he never fought Margarito because of the whole plaster thing but the reason his camp turned that fight down was margarito's pressure, chin, and reach! Same things Canelo could use against him if they fight, plus the kid brings a decent skill set
147 Pac is a challenge, because of shear hand speed and punching power. Cotto proved Floyd can be touched and hit cleanly! Floyd showed in his last fight he will concentrate more on defense than he did in Cotto fight but I think Pac could touch him and make him pay when he does!
I just don't want to see him in with Alexander or Khan, especially not Khan.
mayweather is taller than canelo and has a longer reach ... also, canelo is not a pressure fighter (he has serious stamina issues) and his chin is completely untested
Damn, SRL on dat save a hoe campaign huh. Floyd is lame and that's dat. Besides Ray is lying his a$$ off. He's never done anything compatible. Sure the Lalonde thing was lame, however he never competed at lightheavy before that farce. Unlike Floyd who's a 2 time jr middleweight champ.
well u do know he did the same thing to tommy hearns rite?? smh. if u are a leonard fan, do some research before talking outta your ass
you gon learn today
Mayweather is CWeighing a guy who struggles to make 154 as it is... What's your point?
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what makes you say that canelo struggles to make 154?
He could take the cotto route and leave get fight get paid then return to fight tomato can and be called a beast again
exactly this
declining a long term extension isnt the same as leaving TR
why do u act like those fighters made 10-15mil more than the others? like i said all those fighters didnt see anything pass 10+mil. floyd has a set price where he offer his opponents so now it depends on what manny bring to the table? so explain why all of a sudden floyd is bringing up pac's ppv numbers?? hmm could this be a way for him to use against manny IF a negotiation was to ever happen?
its well documented that hatton, cotto, canelo made more than $10 mill fighting floyd ... stop the nonsense
That was my whole point, you said It yourself, "It takes a big name for Floyd to sell a massive PPV. So why are you down playing Manny's significance? I never denied that Mayweather does big numbers on his own but again for the third time, It takes two.
what you fail to realize is that irrespective of the PPVs sold, floyd still makes $30 mill plus per bout. fighting manny is an expensive promotion for his company ... i guarantee he profited more from a canelo bout than he will a pacman fight at this point
why do people keep saying that manny was offered $40 mill with no PPV money ... where do you guys think a majority of that $40 mill is coming from!?!?!
additionally, the odlh-mayweather fight was the highest grossing in history and their purses were a combined $77 mill ($52 mill to oscar, $25 mill to floyd)
how is offering more that half of the biggest combined purse EVER a bad offer?!
can someone please answer my questions?
anyone saying that manny is getting, "$40 mill with no PPV money" is completely incorrect ... where do you people think the bulk of that $40 mill is coming from? PPV money, thats where
this was arums quote about making one of the biggest PPVs (turned out to be the biggest) of all time ...
The split frees Mayweather to make a potential deal with De La Hoya without Arum as part of the promotion. His involvement would have made making a deal almost impossible: The head of Top Rank has openly feuded with De La Hoya, his former superstar, and their companies rarely do business together as a result.
Arum said he was simply not interested in participating in a De La Hoya-Mayweather fight, but not because of his distaste for De La Hoya.
"I don't want to, because if I did that fight, I would be working for such a small percentage, it's not worth it," he said.
sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382
if manny accepts $40 mill arum would be seeing an even smaller percentage and thats why he scoffed at the offer ... theres NO WAY manny makes more than $40 mill on a 50/50 co-promotion. hell, it would be hard for mayweather to make that much splitting everything down the middle
the only person that would make more money under a 50/50 split is bob arum
why do people keep saying that manny was offered $40 mill with no PPV money ... where do you guys think a majority of that $40 mill is coming from!?!?!
additionally, the odlh-mayweather fight was the highest grossing in history and their purses were a combined $77 mill ($52 mill to oscar, $25 mill to floyd)
how is offering more that half of the biggest combined purse EVER a bad offer?!
i really have no doubt Bob is bending MP over financially. Still that's not relevant to PPV buys. As of the last few fights Manny is deserving of 50%, though that probably changes if Cotto vs Floyd outsells Manny vs Cotto by 500K or more buys.
theres a reason why top rank doesnt release official numbers anymore ... i dont believe that manny is selling as many PPVs as arum says he is, if he was he would allow the networks to confirm his numbers
So they agree to change the weight of the fight threedays before the fight and you who claims to be a real boxing fan will say this isn't considered missing weight.
Just face it Floyd missed weight they agreeded to weight to a weight limit 10 weeks before the fight but since Floyd couldn't make the weight they changed the rules just three days before the fight so Floyd would't get punished by the commision. He still payed Marquez for missing weight, the originally agreeded upon weight, not no bull**** weight Floyd pull out his behind at the last minute.
Simply put Floyd missed the contracted weight limit, he got a pass on it by the commision because he notified them, not even on time however, about not being able to make weight.
cmon son ... he could have lost two pounds in three days, he didnt miss a thing
people keep saying that it would have been $40 mill with no share of the ppv ... but where do you think the lions share of that $40 mill would have come from? thats right, ppv revenue
manny was trying to have his cake and eat it too ... you either take a small guarantee, with a large back end cut or you take a large guarantee with a small back end cut. in this case, it would have been an enormous guarantee with no back end cut
a large guarantee with a large back end cut would have been floyd assuming all of the financial risk while manny had none
While I do think Floyd will win the fight, realistically, manny is the only guy who can beat him. He's got speed to match Floyd, he's got the power to knock him out ( if he can hit him cleanly), and he's got the stamina to keep up the intensity for the whole 12 rounds.
pac has not knocked anyone down at 147 (let alone knocked out) but he has the power to knock out floyd, who ass has never touched the canvas?
pac would have to win this one on the cards ... and i dont see that happening
So basically no PPV money on a fight that would do around (what I would estimate) 3 million buys? I know I sound a bit biased here, but that doesn't make sense
makes sense to me
odlh and floyd sold 2.4 million buys and they collectively earned about $75 million
LOL. Mosley beating Collazo? LOL. I am a Cotto fan. I think he's had a great career. But Cotto is not the same fighter he was when he was fighting at 140. Cotto to be honest as little left in the tank and Bradley is in his physical prime.
As far as those 2 Asians that beat Manny, we all know that was a young Manny who hadn't fully developed as a fighter. Bradley fought Manny in his prime. Oh, and by the way, I had Manny winning the fight.
My whole point is that Manny at LEAST fought Bradley. He fought a guy in his prime, a guy who is considered a P4P fighter, and a guy who cleaned out and was king of the 140 pound division AT THAT TIME.
You cannot tell me that Cotto was king at 154, or that Ortiz was king at 147.
Do you see my point?
when mayweather fought him, mosely was the king of 147 and #3 p4p AT THAT TIME ... yet you give mayweather no credit for the win
do you see their point?
It's not like the cold war started when GBP partnered up with Showtime. All Arum proved with this rant is that he is a shameless hypocrite.
seriously
TR-GB werent matching up long before GB made the jump the showtime
just another lame excuse from bob the builder
They're contesting for the lineal/genuine title at 154. How is a a CW OK? I mean, the winner will be The Man at super welter, but there's a doubt whether the guy is willing to face any challengers above 152. Aren't you a historian? Give me some precedents, preferably not shameful like DLH at MW
Chavez vs Whitaker (two of the biggest names in the sport at the time I believe) fought at 145lbs for the 147lbs title. But then, yoh already knew that, didn't you? It's all people talk about when the fight is mentioned, right?
I don't like the CW for title fights either. The belts sbould be off the table, but you think sanctioning bodies are going to miss out on fees for a fight of this magnitude?
Also, Mayweather can never mention Pacquiao and catchweights again. He sold himself out by doing something he flamed Pacquiao for doing.
that shut you up pretty quickly
Man listen u guys can go on complaining about this fight and that but the fact is Floyd ain't the best, Look at the guys resume after the Castillo fight. All the retiring and fighting guys who don't even deserve to share the ring with him. All the best names and fights everyone wanted to see conveniently missing from the resume. Dude might look like the best against robert guerrero baldomir type guys or old shane Mosley's but that don't mean he is. We all know Floyds game and its who can I neat the easiest to make some money. Doesn't mare him a bad person but we all know it's the truth. Money May is all about the money and making the "right" match ups and that first Castillo fight had a lot to do with it.
most professional boxers and trainers disagree with you, including the guy whom the article quotes ...
I think he should be in the top five in the world in boxing history.
- JLC
Back in Nov 2011, just after the Citron fight, Canelo stated to the BLH that he would go down to 150 for Floyd:
"It's what I want, the Mayweather fight. We put it on the table. It was a year of great experience, and I feel more mature. I'm willing to go down to 150 pounds. De La Hoya said he was going to try to make the Mayweather fight. We're ready for it."
The actual problem, now, is that Canelo is still growing and can't easily make even 154...
why do people keep saying canelo has trouble making 154?? he weighed 153.5 in his last bout
why is rhydration suddenly a problem for floyd? this has been standard operating procedure in boxing for quite some time now.
really? so moving up five weight classes is standard operating procedure? you know why hes concerned about the weight
Why can he fight Oscar and Cotto there but no one else?
I'll answer - they were old, broken down fighters who were past their prime.
because he didnt have a choice against either ... oscar called the shots and cotto had just turned down a lucrative offer from manny to fight below 154
According to Floyd, he came in at 168. Close enough. Also according to Floyd, weight doesn't win fights - skills do.
Floyd has punked himself badly here. I don't know why people try to defend it. I think he beats Canelo comfortably no matter what the weight is. Team Mayweather obviously aren't as confident.
the real reason mayweather is making canelo come down is because canelo has to bring something to the table in this fight besides some gifted titles
canelo has one legit win and no PPV resume ... he took the easy road to get the big fight, floyd likely resents that and made him pay for it
...........the moment he took a beat down from Margs and Pac, he became a viable opponent for Floyd.
speaking of 180s in a moment, remember when floyd got a his sentence pushed back and pacquiao suddenly could no longer fight on cinco de mayo weekend?
of course you dont
You forgot to mention that that's when Floyd offer Manny $40m flat fee, which was the deal breaker at the time.
floyd made that offer after bob said manny could no longer fight on the date because of a cut that needed 4 months to heal and a stadium that needed be erected on the vegas strip
If I have to explain how Manny Pacquiao getting none of the PPV money against Floyd Mayweather is an insulting offer, than I'm not bothering to discuss this.
where the hell do you think the bulk of that $40 mill was coming from?
if pac wanted a lower guarantee with more risk for back end money then he should have tried to negotiated that
instead he ran away from a legit offer ... again
People have been pulling excuses for Floyd on that fight since before it even happened.
Facts:
1. Floyd did not want to fight Castillo, he was forced to and it started the collapse with Arum. Even Floyd's trainer is on record stating they did not like the matchup and did not want the fight.
false
floyds camp wanted him to test the waters at 135 before he fought castillo, but floyd wanted to jump right into the fire ... but youre right, he was so scared to fight castillo that he gave him an immediate rematch after their close first fight
2. What was Floyd's injury? Because he only became injured after people ringside started saying he should've lost that fight..how convenient.
torn rotator cuff, he had surgery after the fight
http://youtu.be/1ov6xoYMfbI?t=45s
after the first round he mentions to his father that his shoulder his hurting him. he reiterated that at mulitple points during the fight they are constantly massaging his left arm in between rounds ... but you would know that if you saw the fight
3. Saying what happened in the second fight somehow nulls out any debate about the first fight is complete and utter noob logic. Castillo was never the same fighter mentally after he felt he was robbed in that fight. He isn't the first of last fighter to completely never recoup from taking a controversial loss.
see this ...
Complaining because people make excuses, then making an excuse. Tight logic.
looks like "noob logic"
Now as a fan of the sport, I have seen that first fight over and over again. Only truly blind fanboys can say that first fight was not debatable and had Mayweather been anyone else he in all likelihood would not have walked out of there with the win. Here is another interesting bit, the only other challenger to floyd with an unorthodox fight style that didn't give away reach advantage to Floyd was Paul Williams and because of that Floyd never fought Paul...interesting...now please give me an excuse as to why Floyd wouldn't fight Paul. I'll give you ten reasons why he refused to fight him.
i always liked paul williams, but he won his first title a few months after floyd fought oscar ... was floyd supposed to fight paul williams over a mega fight with ricky hatton? ... then after floyds fight with hatton, williams lost to carlos quintanna and then floyd "retired" ... but im supposed to believe that floyd was so scared of a guy that just lost to quintana that he retired to avoid him? yea, okay