Manny and the 40 million

This comparison doesn't work because you know the real value of your house but you don't know exactly how much money a Pac/Floyd fight would have generated. What if Pac had accepted the deal and Floyd had ended up making $60 mil even though half the people bought the ppv for Pac? Floyd would have screwed Pac out of money that he earned. But you do know the market value of Manny though. You know what has been the average amount Manny has been paid for his services. If manny has been worth an average of 20 mil and % of ppv for all his previous opponents that provides a basis for what many is worth. The rules of supply and demand apply to boxing just like anything else. and essentially since Manny's fights already generate a number close to what mayweather's do but he is making less he is already allowing himself to be cheated out of money by Arum.

I just wanted to see the fight so I didn't care about who gets what BUT the offer that Floyd gave him was BS and I knew that would be the roadblock to not getting the fight on. Floyd did not want to fight Manny. PERIOD!!!

dude gtfoh with that **** arum said himself that he was open to a marquez fight on may 5th but not may 5th with mayweather Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android So Arum being a jackass makes a sh1tty offer into a good one?

Quote: Originally Posted by Jordank When did manny call floyds bluff once? If anything Floyd called mannys bluff: 1. Manny said he would accept less money, floyd personally called him to to deal. 2. Manny was ready to fight JMM in may 2012, when floyd said fight me, manny said he needs another month to heal his cut. it's about time you stopped with all your horse drek. When Mayweather made the $40 mill "offer", Pacquiao imediately turned it down and COUNTERED with a $50 mill offer to Mayweather. Mayweather turned it down. You have incurable Arumitis. It affects inside the head first, then it travels to the typing fingers. You guys are just too stupid for words, and maybe i'm not too bright myself for bothering to post here. As for your stupid nonsense about the cut, He was not ready to fight in early May. Arum made it very clear that the standard healing time for a 3 layer stitched cut to the bone was 6 months, and Pacquiao could not be ready until the end of May at earliest, or beginning of june. It was all on this site, probably before you learned to read. dude gtfoh with that **** arum said himself that he was open to a marquez fight on may 5th but not may 5th with mayweather Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

yet pac was the only one refusing to make the fight happen You are clueless. Pac doesn't want Floyd. No wonder he fought 13 times in the last 6 years compare to Floyd cherry picked 4 fights. Pac put his.butt on the line 9 times more than Floyd. Yeah Pac was scared to lost his undefeated record to Floyd. No wonder Pac invented his own useless 2 months OST (not the real 24/365 in Olympics) when he was about to fight Floyd but not on his previous 40 fights. Smart ass man.

Given that Floyd inked such a (potentially) lucrative deal with show time and Manny's knockout loss to Marquez. Was it a mistake to have not taken the deal? Is it possible that Manny could possibly make that type of money in a future fight? When viewing this from a management standpoint. Assuming the 40 mil offer from Floyd was legit. Was it a better career move for Manny to continue his wars with Marquez where he makes the lions share but overall less money, Or take a smaller portion and possibly less than his true value to fight Floyd but for more money than he could make in any other fight? Also for reference does anyone know how many Fighters have broken 40 mil for a fight? It's not for fans to evaluate if the offer was solid because we're not the ones taking the risk and we're not the ones that suffer the literal pains of defeat. Like Tyson, Manny hasn't and probably won't figure out he's in the drivers seat. I find it odd that Floyd outsells Manny because Manny does exactly what's expected, that's what some fans want, blind and humble complicity, that's what they want. Pacquiao's mindless mob want a non-trash talking non-black guy to rally around, because after all, black people that assert themselves are to be shunned.

and instead of banking the 40 million, he got KTFO for less than 1/4 of that Clueless. Scroll back a couple of pages for education

lol! Floyd doesn't want any part of Pac. Remember when Pac was dominating everybody Floyd should already challenge him but guess what? Is Pac fault because he didn't agree to Floyd useless OST and 0% PPV offer. and instead of banking the 40 million, he got KTFO for less than 1/4 of that

I don't know man, I can see the 40 mil offer from both sides. The fan in me says it was a lowball offer, but seeing it from the business side that Mayweather was talking about I can see why he offered him that. From what I heard recently in a Floyd interview he wanted to cut Arum out completely. He said something to the effect of giving Manny the 40 mil while not including Arum cause he didn't want to put money in Arum's pocket. that in turn would mean more money for Pac as he wouldn't be paying his 25% or however much he has to pay to Arum Arum or not, a flat fee and no ppv revenue for what could have been the most lucrative fight of all time was a BS offer, unless it's a $100 million flat fee. Not to mention Arum would have never let that happen, he would have fought Pac in court. If You think of this with any other product: Say you are wanting to sell your house for 1,000,000. But some rich guy is only offering you 600,000 for it. And that is the absolute best deal that is out there. Even though you know its not fair if your other option is selling your same house to someone else for 300,000, do you then turn down the 600k and take the 300k because you know the rich guy was short changing you? This comparison doesn't work because you know the real value of your house but you don't know exactly how much money a Pac/Floyd fight would have generated. What if Pac had accepted the deal and Floyd had ended up making $60 mil even though half the people bought the ppv for Pac? Floyd would have screwed Pac out of money that he earned.

Yea it is a risk to go out on your own, but with that risk comes bigger rewards. However some people just aren't risk takers like that and considering how jacked Manny's team was/is that someone like Arum was actually needed to make it work as good as it did. What good is making more money if it is going out the door at a much faster rate~ He thinks of himself as a politician, not a promoter. That can be lucrative too, anywhere. And the bolded applies to Floyd at least as much, and many other huge names from the past.

I would say ultimately that is the best way to look at it. I started this thread just to talk about the financial ramifications of this fight and it seems to led to a good convo (for the most part) be really arguing between who missed out on more money between these two is pure semantics. Really it was just the fans who lost. I just like to see fighters do as good as they possibly can, because I know the history of boxers and there are not many happy endings. Also since I gamble and make money on boxing, I try to root for their success to make me feel less guilty about making money on the pain of others.

I'm sure Pac hasn't maximized his earnings, but like you said he's done well. For example, under some fictional 50/50 split, Pac would end up with 27% less than Floyd, at best. Still a ton of money. Very few guys have gone off on their own, and both had aspirations to be a promoter, which Pac doesn't. And it's easy to make a wrong move. For example he could have signed with 50 Cent and had to fight on TR cards, having to pay both Arum and 50. Yea it is a risk to go out on your own, but with that risk comes bigger rewards. However some people just aren't risk takers like that and considering how jacked Manny's team was/is that someone like Arum was actually needed to make it work as good as it did. What good is making more money if it is going out the door at a much faster rate~

Arum is out for number 1 no doubt and Manny has made him a bunch of money, that certainly isn't up for debate. That is why Manny had leverage to make something happen though, because Arum can't just replace Manny and he can't make him fight. Manny certainly did very well for himself though also, if only one guy makes a bit more in your field that isn't too shabby. So while I am critical of his choice on this matter, it is not like he is hurting that much from it either. I'm sure Pac hasn't maximized his earnings, but like you said he's done well. For example, under some fictional 50/50 split, Pac would end up with 27% less than Floyd, at best. Still a ton of money. Very few guys have gone off on their own, and both had aspirations to be a promoter, which Pac doesn't. And it's easy to make a wrong move. For example he could have signed with 50 Cent and had to fight on TR cards, having to pay both Arum and 50.

Arum is out for number 1 no doubt and Manny has made him a bunch of money, that certainly isn't up for debate. That is why Manny had leverage to make something happen though, because Arum can't just replace Manny and he can't make him fight. Manny certainly did very well for himself though also, if only one guy makes a bit more in your field that isn't too shabby. So while I am critical of his choice on this matter, it is not like he is hurting that much from it either. I would say ultimately that is the best way to look at it. I started this thread just to talk about the financial ramifications of this fight and it seems to led to a good convo (for the most part) be really arguing between who missed out on more money between these two is pure semantics. Really it was just the fans who lost.

And so far Pac has been a good bet for him. I bet he took a good hit on that 27% minimum on the Bradley fight, but more than made up with the 2 JMM fights. Arum is out for number 1 no doubt and Manny has made him a bunch of money, that certainly isn't up for debate. That is why Manny had leverage to make something happen though, because Arum can't just replace Manny and he can't make him fight. Manny certainly did very well for himself though also, if only one guy makes a bit more in your field that isn't too shabby. So while I am critical of his choice on this matter, it is not like he is hurting that much from it either.

Promoters work for boxers, not the other way around~ Arum gets his cut but Arum also takes more on the back end. Yes Arum does take risk, but Arum is good at his job so he doesn't lose often but he has taken baths in the past look up what he paid for Rahman-Maskaev II and tell me if you think he didn't lose~. No such thing as a business without risk, you do your best to mitigate them but nothing is certain. Those numbers are from where, what Arum says? What Arum says publicly and what is going on for real are not same thing. And so far Pac has been a good bet for him. I bet he took a good hit on that 27% minimum on the Bradley fight, but more than made up with the 2 JMM fights.

I see you're also struggling with this. When they say Pac's purse for JMM or Bradley is 26m, that includes liabilities to Roach, Koncz, may others, but not Arum. That's just how it is, when you get paid by your promoter (or any employer) you don't get to pay a fraction back. There is such a thing, it's called a loan, it's separate from a fight purse. Arum doesn't lose on the promotion. If he did, he wouldn't be in the business and the boxing promotion would not be viable anyway. Consider this: there was a pot of around 40m for Top Rank and Arum to split for JMM 3 and 4. Pac's minimum was said to be 26m. That leaves right around 30% for Arum. His "promoters minimum" is thought to be 27%. Coincidence? Promoters work for boxers, not the other way around~ Arum gets his cut but Arum also takes more on the back end. Yes Arum does take risk, but Arum is good at his job so he doesn't lose often but he has taken baths in the past look up what he paid for Rahman-Maskaev II and tell me if you think he didn't lose~. No such thing as a business without risk, you do your best to mitigate them but nothing is certain. Those numbers are from where, what Arum says? What Arum says publicly and what is going on for real are not same thing.

Arum takes all kinds of expenses out for promoting the fight and that comes out of the fighter's end~ that was a big issue for Floyd and Oscar when it came to leaving. Manny was getting a way bigger raise than 12%, if you don't believe that I have a bridge to sell you. I see you're also struggling with this. When they say Pac's purse for JMM or Bradley is 26m, that includes liabilities to Roach, Koncz, many others, but not Arum. That's just how it is, when you get paid by your promoter (or any employer) you don't get to pay a fraction back. There is such a thing, it's called a loan, it's separate from a fight purse. Arum doesn't lose on the promotion, esp on Pac fights. If he did, he wouldn't be in the business and boxing promotion would not be a viable business anyway. Consider this: there was a pot of around 40m for Top Rank and Arum to split for JMM 3 and 4. Pac's minimum was said to be 26m. That leaves right around 30% for Arum. His "promoters minimum" is thought to be 27%. Coincidence?

This is the aspect I think few people are realizing about this. The power to negotiate in this situation was not based on how much of a draw you were (as both of them are draws) but how lucrative was your next best offer. Clearly both of them did not have an opponent that would pay them as much as the other. But with the benefit of hindsight we can see that based on each of the alternatives that they had, not taking this fight has hurt Manny more than Floyd. Also I see you using some business vocab there! Ha! I am in the process of paying for it right now!

I keep trying to think about this from any other aspect than a business standpoint and I can't If I step into a negotiation knowing the market value of the product i want is 20 mill with ppv percentage Then my first instinct is to offer slightly more than that, which could possibly be 40 million flat. Its like anything else if you see a product on sale for $1,000 you don't want to have to pay more for it because you have more money than anyone else whose paid for it. I would really like to see if either side really looked in depth at the possible financial situations this fight posed. Like did mayweather evaluate the option to fight Paq against the option to fight cotto and really try to break the numbers down and see how much he stood to lose if he had to fight Cotto instead of Paq. Or if paq looked at the other offers he had and really tried to weight them against each other to find out what was the best deal for him. I know boxing is moving in that direction but I am not sure they are totally there.