I think when you're knocked to the apron, it's just like you got knocked down in the ring, so you get 10 seconds to get up. It's only when you're knocked to the floor do you get 20 seconds. But don't hold that to me. But yeah, had they broken the rules, Katsidis' team would've said something.
Look how hard they pushing for the supposed best middleweight bout between #1 Pavlik and #2 Wright. they fervently pushig Arum to make it for the good of boxing.
But why aint G pushing hard for the #1 and #2 welterweights to do battle, Cotto and May?
it just proves they are hypocrites and protecting money may who is scared of Cotto.
money may can do that stupid wrestling and still fight Cotto in June. after all he did dancing and Hatton at the same time. Fear of COTTO it's so obvious.
Who is pushing that Pavlik fight? With Winky? I don't know who you're talking about. But, as far as Mayweather ducking Cotto, I'm tired of these threads. Mayweather goes where the money is, it's always happened forever. Sugar Ray Leonard ducked Aaron Pryor, and Roy Jones ducked Bernard Hopkins. So, it's been going on...yall act like Mayweather fighting Cotto is such a big deal. I mean, Cotto has to get some more quality wins under his belt before he fights the best p4p. He knocked out Carlos Quintana and barely defeated an aged Shane Mosley and knocked out Zab Judah, who we all know aint much...
A fight with Pac would be ridiculous IMO. A fight with Trinidad would make sense, but I wonder how much weight Trinidad would be willing to cut.
Trinidad would have to come down to 154. I don't think Tito will ever fight again anyway. I mean Oscar would beat him regardless. Simply because of "ring rust." I mean he took 3 years off and stepped in with a bigger man who's been fighting. So, Oscar will always be around as long as people want to make $12 million...Hell, I'd fight em!! :) :)
Hopkins is a dirty fighter who always resorts to head butts, holding his opponents' arms, etc. He really isn't very good, just tricky.
He's never defeated an elite fighter his own size, just smaller men like Trinidad and DLH. When he has fought an elite fighter his own size, he's lost (Jones, Taylor).
He doesn't have a sportsmanlike attitude toward other fighters, respecting no one. He's done some bad stuff in the past like stealing old womens' purses and other criminal behavior, and did time in prison for it.
He was 40 when he lost to JT...
Beating Winky was not impressive. Beating Tarver however was a big moment.
You have to admit that even a second-tier 168 lber is a tougher fight than a 156 lb. Oscar De La Hoya. Sure, Hopkins is not the first to get famous beating on smaller men, but that doesn't change the fact that it has made him overrated.
So Hagler's overrated as well. His so-called toughest fight against Mugabi, a 154-pounder.
i'm resurrecting this thread...
Miguel Cotto
Strengths: Good body work, good overall boxing skills, shows a lot of versatility
Weaknesses: The chin is a little shaky, and struggles with fighters with quick hands that can get to that aforementioned chin
Manny Pacquiao
Nah I got over that one.
I kind of like Hopkins, he seems a decent human being at bottom.
But there are some issues here:
1. I know he didn't grow up a "thug," because I come from the same city he does, I know his neighborhood, which is by no means a ghetto, and all the kids I grew up with went to Graterford too, so I know better than other people here how bullshit his whole wannabe gangsta persona is.
2. He's simply overrated as a boxer. He lost twice to Jermain Taylor. Those fights were close, but he lost them, which is pretty sad. taylor would have been beaten senseless by Calzaghe.
3. The "whiteboy" comment was made after he walked away shamed and angry, because he saw how Joe doesn't take him seriously since the Taylor losses. He's a prideful man, and those losses bumped him from great fighter to good one, Joe knows that and Hopkins saw that Joe knows it.
4. He's not dealing well with being vastly inferior to a foreign, white, undefeated legend. It's killing his ego, what's left of it.
What r u talking about? Bernard Hopkins is one of the greatest middleweights ever. He is the only boxer to jump from being Undisputed Middleweight champion to Undisputed Light Heavyweight Champion. That's something Sugar Ray Robinson couldn't even do. So, what are you talkin' bout? Joe Calfaggy ain't fought nobody except an overrated Jeff Lacy. After Lacy his next competitive opponent is who? Mikkel Kessler...I rest my case
Well if Jermain would've been more accurate and precise when he had Pavlik hurt there might not even been a rematch. Kelly knocked Jermain out, but in the rematch it could go either way. Maybe this time they'll fight on neutral ground and the ref won't jump in to stop it so quickly. Cuz I thought Jermain was hurt just as much as Pavlik was and he didn't stop it then. Not taking anything away from kelly the ghost
I'm really sick of everyone talking about Bernard Hopkins, saying,"Oh he's a racist!" He's just saying this to sell the fight, he's always done something controversial trying to increase those ppv buys. And, Floyd Mayweather did something similar. Remember when Floyd stepped in the ring against Oscar he came out with the Mexican flag trunks and a giant sombrero. No one said that was racist or "nationalistic" that was just funny. See, I think there's just a lot of white people on this site that were personally offended.
Kelly ain't great, good analysis.... he's just 32-0 with 29 knockouts, taking away the middleweight championship from an undefeated Jermain Taylor still in his prime, a man who many thought would reign the MW division for years before Pavlik put that to rest, manhandling a man in Miranda who no one wanted to fight at the time. You're right, its time to face the fact that he's the linear champ, no one has beaten him and he's a knockout machine who sadly isn't that great.
Do you realize how you sound? That term "great" has been used to describe the All Timers. The Sugar Ray Robinson's and Marvin Hagler's and Carlos Monzon's. You would put Kelly Pavlik up there with them?
I think Roy is worthy of one of the best P4P anyways. He was virtually unbeatable in his prime. He had a rare combination of power, athleticism, speed, and flash.
I put a lot of stock into Paul Williams, but now I retract those statements. He's not that great a welterweight. He has the physical gifts but not the boxing skills to do those justice. He reminds of a Hearns with less punching power and less boxing skills. Paul Williams lost that fight on Saturday imo...Don't know what fight Harold Lederman was watching. Paul Williams should have controlled the geography in the ring, he has to learn how to dance. He has to understand that there is a distance in which he can land a punch and can't be hit, but he was just throwing out those little flicky jabs with no conviction and Quintana didn't have to worry about it. So then he just lunged in through Williams' horrible defense, but like Max Kellerman said that fight was more of a credit to skills of Miguel Cotto. Can't Wait for Cotto/Mayweather
who's talking about all time greats? when did I ever say I put Kelly up there as an all time great? I guess we can't call anyone great unless they're all time great now... I'll just call him "way above average", is that what you're looking for? Because he's not an all time great, you're right, and he's certainly far from an average fighter. So let's start calling people who aren't sugar ray robinson or muhammed ali "all time way above average fighters" since theres no room for simply labeling contemporary fighters in their present status, other than floyd mayweather, as "great"
No...no..no..I said Kelly isn't great. He barely edged out a win against an average middleweight who barely edged out a win against an old man. Then fought smaller unnatural middleweights(i.e Cory Spinks, Kassim Ouma) So, Kelly gets two wins of notoriety and now he's great? We'll see on Saturday.
Uh, he was not middleweight champion when he moved up. He lost two fights and was just chased out of the division.
Robinson went from welterweight champ to middleweight champ.
I know...Sugar Ray after getting the middleweight title and winning it back from Carmen Basillio he jumped up to Light Heavyweight to fight Joey Maxim. He lost in 14th round because he quit. They said itwas over 100 degrees inside the ring. So technically, Maxim stopped Sugar Ray, and Bernard had, at one time the undisputed middleweight champion and then fought Tarver, so you sound dumb...
by the way Mike, what exactly makes you so sure that he isn't that great? I understand he's been knocked down. But he's never been knocked out. He's been in against only 32 guys, fine, but two of them were Jermain Taylor and Edison Miranda. And he's still unbeaten.He's overachieved in every way possible since starting his pro career, and you write him off like he's some prospect who's about to be exposed. So honestly, how do you expect someone to react?
I'm saying that Pavlik is in his prime right now right? Well, he barely edged out a win against a "less-than-stellar" middleweight. And I'm a tell you something that fight JT fight can go either way any night. So, he barely beats Taylor and is barely the champ ina a time when the Middleweights are not that good. In a time when Hopkins was coming up, aint no way in hell Pavlik would of been at the top. He would've lost to Glen Johnson, James Toney, Trinidad, Antwun Echols, William Joppy, and definitely Roy Jones.
So you're saying that Taylor isn't that good because he barely beat a guy in Hopkins who hadn't been beaten in a decade, and he beat him TWICE, whether it was close or not. and you then rag on his other opponents, which include a draw with Winky, whom you just said could beat Pavlik, even though he couldn't beat Taylor, who is overrated, yet you also now talk like Taylor is gonna beat pavlik on the 16th. Theres so many holes in your argument I don't know where to begin.
Dude that pyramid theory don't work. You can't say A beat b and B beat c so A is the best out.
(i.e Leonard, Duran, Hearns)
Pavlik....... DOESNT...... have punching power..........??? :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:
32-0 29 KOs
I said he doesn't have "devastating punching power" which he doesn't. He has a puncher's chance, that allows him to always be in a fight. He reminds me of a younger Trinidad, how he was never out of a fight.
Not taking anything away from Monzon. I just thought Hagler and Sugar Ray had a better body of work. I mean Marvin Hagler had one of the best fights ever with Hearns. Monzon was good, only had 14 title defenses Hopkins had 20...do the math...no h8
winky is retarded if he thinks he wouldnt be KTFO by pavlik
U know what they say, "Styles make fights." And if you ask me, Pavlik's style would lend himself well to Winky outboxing him. In my opinion, Kelly doesn't have devastating punching power, and Winky would block those anyway. Pavlik's name wouldn't even have been brought up if Jermain hadn't have punched himself out after he knocked him down. Winky would walk Kelly down and land straight lefts the whole night, maybe not a knockout, but a UD.
UMMM excuse me..... When Bernard Jumped up to Light heavy.. he was not the UNDISPUTED middleweight champ.. he in fact had lost 2 fights to a Clown named Jermaine Taylor... who then lost his Title to a "white boy"
I'm not saying that he had the title when he jumped, I'm saying that he was at one time the champ, making him the first to ever do that.
Winky, I can see pavlik trying all night and getting frustrated.
Thank you. Winky would frustrate Pavlik because he couldn't land any of those power punches. I've seen Kelly Pavlik fight two times and both times he fought an opponent that was easily hit. (Edison Miranda and Jermain Taylor) but Winky is relatively hard to hit and he would eventually out box Pavlik. Because as much as yall might like him, Kelly aint great...
He's slowly gaining a following. You'd be surprised how many people like Sugar Shane. Now, after he has beat him, he's fighting Alfonso Gomez from the Contender. I agree with you there that there are a lot of casual fans that watch the contender and don't really tune in-depth into the sweet science. But, the Mayorga thing, I don't really see. What gives Ricardo that kind of leverage to fight one of the best welterweights out right now? Ricardo just beat Fernando Vargas. Shane just had a loss, so to bring himself back he's gonna fight somebody he can beat such as Ricardo Mayorga...not Cotto, say what you will but he's about money too. Ain't no money in fighting Mayorga...
yeah I agree with you. Like I said in the other thread, Hopkins is the better boxer, he's more technically sound and has great defense. I think Pavlik's only chance to win is if he hurts bernard, or KO's him, and I just don't think that's possible to do against Bernard, he's much too cautious and smart, so Hopkins by UD.
Also, if Hopkins does beat Calzaghe, he should really retire. Father time will catch up with him eventially and he is already pushing it pretty damn far. The only reason he's able to compete at such a high level is because of his insane work ethic and being an absolute health freak, but eventially all that wont matter, so if possible he should go out on top.
I agree father time is sprintin' and gaining on B-Hop. But you know he's after paydays.