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Emmanuel Augustus. If he'd had good management (hell, any management) a consistent trainer, and resources for proper training, he'd have been world champion. The corruption of the sport broke his will and he stopped caring about winning.

Wilder would lose to both versions of Foreman. He doesn't have the boxing skills to stay away from him, and George is always coming forward, which makes it hard for Wilder to get that long runway he needs for the big right. I say Foreman bangs that long body with some big hooks and KOs the Bronze Bomber. Fury has a good chance to beat him, with his long jab and mobility. Young Foreman could gas out, which could give Fury a late KO chance. He probably UDs 90s Foreman. But that's just "odds" are - even the guys that beat Foreman in the 90s were utterly exhausted by the effort and ate dozens of "telephone pole" jabs.

Emmanuel Augustus gave him a heck of scare at lightweight with not much time to train and without even knowing who Mayweather was. At 140lbs with a proper training camp, that could have been a different result.

Shavers hit Holmes with a punch that would have KO'd a horse:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoGTufCNN7o Jose Luis Castillo's lead uppercut to KO Caesar Bazan is another favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2h3bo2HSSs And of course, BOOM! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLWYnTFz9PE IIRC the ref said it was "as hard as a man can be hit".

I wonder how many people really watched that fight. Everyone parrots some things knowing floyd said it was his hardest and knoing floyd had a rough go but a lot of people's comments (not picking on the dude in this thread) suggest they never really watched it. Credit due to augustus because he kept coming and took a ton of punishment, it wasnt as one sided as gatti, it was more give and take but agustus was getting spanked in the processes, he did make mayweather miss a lot but this was young mayweather who threw a lot that fight to. Most similar to the hatton fight in that he really made floyd work hard and push him out of his comfort zone but took an ass whooping in the process. Floyd himself has said that EA was his toughest fight. Some folks swear that when Floyd goes his corner after round 2 he tells Roger "I can't hit him - I don't know what to do". EA came up with some great tactics on the fly. Throw a short left hook inside Floyd's overhand right. When Floyd goes to the ropes, don't just bear down and bang his elbows - throw pawing shots to goad him into countering, then counter him. Now, Floyd definitely wins down the stretch. EA's trainer told the press that Emmanuel had injured both hands by mid-fight, which is why you get the odd stoppage where EA doesn't even seem hurt. (That's what the trainer says anyway!) Overall, Floyd was just too fast for him. But if they were at 140 and both had proper camps, Floyd's a little slower and EA has a bigger gas tank...

Kownacki needs to go back to the drawing board and add some defense to his style. If he comes back with an Archie Moore style cross-guard, or some Joe Frazier style bob-and-weave stuff, he might be able to restart his career. His team is a problem. I remember watching a post fight interview back when he was supposed to contend against Wilder, and he was asked "but what about Wilder's right hand?" and his trainer responded with "he'll walk through the right hand". That's not what the trainer should say. If he dismisses the loss as a fluke, then he's done. He's never going to be "agile", but guys like Foreman and Liston weren't agile either - they just knew how to defend based on their strengths and weaknesses.

Nobody else has ever become HW champ, cleaned out the division and beat everyone, then come back after a long layoff to do it all over again 10 years later. The only other HW that even comes close is Foreman, and he was pretty choosy in both his runs.

That Ali had to come back form defeat is part of the reason he's the GOAT. After the losses to Frazier and Norton, everyone thought he was finished, an also-ran. He went into the fight with Foreman as something like a 7 to 1 underdog and won by KO. One of the reason's Fury's comeback is such a story is because of the parallels with Ali's comeback - it's the drama people love. Sure, if you dig into Ali's second title reign you can find some controversial wins and serious cherry-picking opponents. But almost every champ has some "controversial wins". The ones that don't were either cherry-picking bums, or they weren't champ for very long because they lost!

Atlas is pretty extreme on Tyson, and he does exaggerate, but there's truth in what he says. First off, I've never bought the contrarian idea that Tyson is actually really smart. I listened to his whole Joe Rogan interview and no, he's not a clever guy. He's in his fifties and seems to just now be coming around to the idea that his upbringing might have been unusual and unhealthy, and that maybe that's why his personal life has always been a disaster. It took 53 years and two blunts for him to take the first baby steps toward being reflective. In the same interview he swore off ever returning to boxing, saying it would be a terrible idea mentally and physically for him, and now he's posting training clips and trying to land a fight. He's impulsive and short-sighted, and those haven't improved much with age. Lots of boxers have had sad ends to their careers, but few are more pitiful than Tyson on his butt, having been knocked down by Kevin McBride. Getting counted out, fully aware, not because he can't get up, but because he wanted to quit. He did have some tough wars where he had to out-slug the guy, but he never pulled off an upset or came from behind. He never got off the deck to win a fight, or even finish a fight. He never made a clear mid-fight adjustment to try to win, even when it was clear he was losing. If things weren't going his way he'd keep slugging, hoping for his power to bail him out, but he wasn't really trying to win so much as save face. He's just not someone who seems to have it in him to truly overcome something, or accomplish something that's really hard for him. He likes boxing when he's winning and it's easy. If it's not easy, then it's not fun anymore and he wants to quit.

Floyd fought, consecutively: Arturo Gatti Sharmba Mitchell Zab Judah Carlos Baldomir Oscar De La Hoya Ricky Hatton Juan Manuel Marquez Shane Mosley Victor Ortiz Miguel Cotto Robert Guerrero Marcos Maidana Marcos Maidana Manny Pacquiao Andre Berto 15 straight world champions to end his career (I don't count the McGregor or Nasukawa nonsense) Just for fun, lets pick this apart to illustrate how basically anyone's record can be made to look "questionable": Gatti was never that good, and he was a slugger that was tailor-made for Floyd. Judah had already lost to Tszyu, Baldomir, and Cory Spinks, and his consistency problems were well known by the time he fought Floyd. Baldomir was never that good and his improbable run was going to get exposed anyway. De La Hoya was old. Hatton was a hype job with hardly any good wins coming in. Marquez had to go up two divisions for the fight and got weight bullied. Mosley had already been through a ton of wars and was shot. Cotto was never the same after Margarito and everyone knows it. Maidana was a no-skill brawler. He waited for Pac to pack on mileage before he fought him and he was injured. Berto was a cherry-pick who had already lost to other guys Floyd had beaten. There's ways to throw shade on anyone's accomplishments.

I've never gotten whole idea that Norton had "nerves" against big punchers. He just didn't have a good chin, and IMO his whole style was built around that fact. He had great defense and countered before the other guy could get a combination off. But against huge punchers (Foreman, Shavers, Cooney) it only took one punch to stagger him, and his defense collapsed. But against guys like Ali, who couldn't hurt him too bad with one punch, his style was very effective. His only other weakness was that, being a counter-puncher, he could get outworked or at least give the appearance of getting outworked since he was always waiting for the other guy to go first. Against today's heavies: Wilder would probably KO him, just like Shavers did. Joshua would have a harder time, and would have to hope he caught him clean with something big before eating too many counters - pretty even fight. Fury would really struggle - it's a style nightmare for him, just like it was for Ali. Can't KO him, can't get him off you, blocks & counters everything... he's have to try to stay outside and jab his way to victory like Holmes did. Holmes said Norton was the hardest fight of his career.

As though Beterbiev has the option of turning down the gift... Boxing is a global sport, and sometimes it's a great laboratory for learning about other systems of government. So here's a thought experiment: You're a star boxer from a country governed by a dictatorship. The dictator vaingloriously likes to associate himself with your sport because it makes him appear tough. If he's like most dictators, he's also vengeful and petty. Anyone who makes a perceived snub likely finds themselves, or a member of their family, the victim of an "accident". The dictator decides to give you a car as part of a photo-op for his "re-election". What do you do? I'm gonna suggest that unless you've already manged to move everyone you care about out of that dictator's reach, you say "Thanks for the car! You sure are a great leader!"

There is also a rich tradition of Mexican fighters resenting each other over who's a "real" Mexican fighter. See Chavez vs. De La Hoya. I'm not saying he is, but it's certainly possible to see Canelo as a "sell-out", not least because of his association with De La Hoya.

Pac should fight Crawford because that's probably the most money he can make going out the door. Porter wouldn't pay as much and might give him a sustained beating that would affect his health. Spence might be out for another year, and it's not clear that's a better fight for him. Garcia would be for less money than any of the others, and he might still lose. Pac probably can't beat Crawford, but if the objective is to leave the ring with a big cheque and not be in a coma, that's the fight to take.

It's not just about size. Earnie Shavers and Mike Tyson were both small heavyweights too, even for their eras. A lot of it seems to be genetics - i.e.: how many type 2 muscle fibers you happen to be born with, how much leverage your particular skeleton can generate, etc. I'm sure part of it is learned too - how to throw your arm with total abandon, rotate your shoulders just right. But I've heard a lot of trainers say that punchers are born, not made.

Joyce reminds me a lot of old Foreman - he's slow as all hell, but he has a good jab and there's just nothing you can do to stop him. Really good boxers like Usyk and Fury could just outbox him and win on points, provided they don't get tired. His jab isn't as good as Foreman's and he doesn't have that bludgeoning power, but he has that "unstoppable golem" thing down pat. Joyce vs. Wilder would be like Foreman vs. Cooney.

The Usyk win blows up his master plan, and he has to recalculate. If AJ had won, as expected, then he would fight Wilder and probably blow him away again, easily outbox AJ for a gazillion dollars and become undisputed, fight maybe two more times, then retire rich and host award shows or something. Usyk is a much harder fight for him, and probably worth a lot less money. To beat Usyk, he has to either outbox the only HW that might rival his skill level or try to use "bully mode" on a guy that has much better footwork than Wilder. So does he still want AJ for the money, even though it means less every time he loses? Does he wait for Usyk to lose and fight someone else for undisputed? Fury has to cheer for AJ to win the rematch without making it sound like he just wants to make his own life easier...

Roach has often seemed to me like a big name that old guys hire when they don't want to work hard anymore. Certainly it's a generalization - I'm sure many of his fighters work very hard, and it's not like Pac showed up to a bunch of fights fat and undertrained or anything. He's kind of like the new Angelo Dundee, where he'll work for you if you pay him enough, and having him as your trainer gives you credibility with promoters. For lots of fighters, especially older ones with deep pockets who maybe don't think they need guidance anyway, the added name recognition is appealing, even if he's not actually a good match for them as a trainer.

Staying on the outside, throwing quick counters, and then continuing with movement has always been how you beat Pac. Just very few guys have had the skills to actually do it, since Pac used to be so fast. Jab a lot and counter when he rushes. Don't get in exchanges, and don't let him look like he's outworking you. That's Spence's bath to a UD victory.

How many black fighters has Terence Crawford fought? This is an extremely weird question. Is the suggestion that he avoids black fighters for some reason? Prefers them? Tries to fight an ethnically diverse list of boxers? I mean, I suppose if you're a star fighter, picking opponents is kind of like casting them in a movie.

Parker is still young enough to have another title shot or two in him, and this fight is better than having him just fight cans while he waits his turn. There's an argument to be made that he should really fight another contender to try to make himself a mandatory, rather than a gatekeeper like Chisora. Usyk, Whyte, Ajagba, or Joyce would all be more meaningful wins for him, but it's because those are all harder fights. A rematch with Whyte after this makes a lot of sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL9TDcXvDCw This guy has a LOT of robberies on his record. "My quarrel is not with you sir, but with the laws of physics!" Absolutely The Rubberman Emanuel Augustus: the world's first and only surrealist boxer. Is his winning? Losing? Getting robbed? Dancing? Fighting and dancing? Does he even care if he wins? There's only one of that guy! If he'd ever even had a manager he could have been a world champion at 140.

Saying depression indicates "mental weakness" is like saying leukemia indicates "blood weakness" - yes, of course those things are literally true. If you are severely depressed at a point in time, then your mental health is weak at that time. Yes, depression is often a chronic condition, so someone who's been there before is always at a higher risk of it happening again. The question seems to imagine that depression might caused by some kind of "mental weakness" that is distinct from the depression itself. Depression is a very complex illness, as are most mental health conditions. I'm pretty sure that if you can prove definitively what causes depression, you will win a Nobel Prize.

Personally I feel that Mayweather was always boxing these young up and comers in the gym. He sensed he was slipping and got out. Nothing wrong with that. Smart man in my opinion. Pac, I feel, is just a ball of energy. He still LOVES boxing, basketball and exercising. He has great genetics too. I really wish he would retire though. Dont want to see him get hurt. This. Pac loves to fight. Floyd loves money. Floyd took financial control of his career early, and made a long-term plan for how he was going to make a ton of money and get out before his health got ruined. He learned from what happened to his father and his uncle. Pac has made a lot of money too, but I'm guessing a lot more of it has gone to other people. Usually guys keep fighting into their 40s because a) they're like the Rolling Stones - they keep going because they don't know how to do anything else, or b) they didn't handle their finances and they need the money, or c) both. Nobody knows Pac's situation except him and his accountant, but I'm guessing it's some amount of c).

Bowe - Holyfield III. Evander, fighting with hepatitis, looked so sick and so exhausted between rounds that Foreman was yelling at the ref from ringside, begging for it to be stopped. He thought Holyfield was going to have a heart attack and die in the ring. Then Evander goes out and knocks Bowe down for the first time in his pro career. Bowe outweighs him by 40 pounds. Comes within a hair of winning, but gets too tired to finish him off. Most people with hepatitis can barely get out of bed. Amazing.

George Chuvalo - 93 pro fights including Foreman, Frazier, and Ali (twice) and was never knocked down. George Foreman - lots of guys could hit him. Almost nobody could hurt him. Evander "Bombproof" Holyfield - unreal ability to recover from a punch. Ali, of course - and he obviously paid long-term for what he could absorb in the short term. But punches he took from Shavers, Frazier, and Foreman were enough to kill most people twice. James Toney - a middleweight that went up to fight heavyweights. Only knockdown in his whole career was a balance shot against Roy Jones. Honorable mentions to Larry Holmes, Jose Luis Castillo, Vitali Klitschko, Emmanuel Augustus, and Tex Cobb. All incredibly hard to crack.

Lol, if Floyd had beaten Bernard Hopkins at 160 in 2007, then been banned from boxing for 3 years because of racism and his political stance on the Iraq war, then came back, lost to GGG, then beat very other middleweight worth fighting, then beaten GGG, then taken the title back from Canelo, then beat GGG again, THEN maybe he'd be the GOAT. (Because he'd have had to go up in weight to do it, and Ali didn't.)

Andy Ruiz has made himself the Hasim Rahman of 2019. The story is a least as much about him blowing it as it is about AJ beating him. AJ definitely deserves credit for making the proper adjustments and boxing better than a lot of people, including me, thought he could. But his victory is muted by having Ruiz do seemingly everything possible to sabotage himself. Holyfield didn't get much credit for beating Buster Douglas because Douglas came in fat and basically laid himself on canvas. So it is with AJ vs. Ruiz 2.

Ever heard of Rugby? Ever heard of playing more than one sport? I thought rugby was mostly beer leagues - never heard of a rich or famous rugby player. But I'm not a Brit so feel free to correct me. Very few elite athletes play more than one sport. Even boxing/MMA crossovers are usually silly circuses, not actual athletic events.

Because the big Americans go into other sports.... Brits didn’t get better America athletes went into higher paying easier sports. /agree The Brits don't have another sport that draws all the big athletes. An athletically gifted 160 pound Brit probably plays "football" (soccer). A 220 pound Brit is too big and slow for soccer and the Brits don't play American football, baseball, or hockey. So they go into combat sports.