Does anyone come close to matching Ali's 10 toughest fights?

Floyd fought, consecutively: Arturo Gatti Sharmba Mitchell Zab Judah Carlos Baldomir Oscar De La Hoya Ricky Hatton Juan Manuel Marquez Shane Mosley Victor Ortiz Miguel Cotto Robert Guerrero Marcos Maidana Marcos Maidana Manny Pacquiao Andre Berto 15 straight world champions to end his career (I don't count the McGregor or Nasukawa nonsense) Just for fun, lets pick this apart to illustrate how basically anyone's record can be made to look "questionable": Gatti was never that good, and he was a slugger that was tailor-made for Floyd. Judah had already lost to Tszyu, Baldomir, and Cory Spinks, and his consistency problems were well known by the time he fought Floyd. Baldomir was never that good and his improbable run was going to get exposed anyway. De La Hoya was old. Hatton was a hype job with hardly any good wins coming in. Marquez had to go up two divisions for the fight and got weight bullied. Mosley had already been through a ton of wars and was shot. Cotto was never the same after Margarito and everyone knows it. Maidana was a no-skill brawler. He waited for Pac to pack on mileage before he fought him and he was injured. Berto was a cherry-pick who had already lost to other guys Floyd had beaten. There's ways to throw shade on anyone's accomplishments.

At least 1 and arguably 2 fixes versus Liston, 1 and possibly 2 gifts versus Norton. Patterson was washed up and he still fought him twice. Foster was a light heavy. Gift over Young, and some argue Jones. Quite a few fighters out there who had ten opponents and performances that were more impressive. Not really arguing about what his record should have been...Patterson was only 30 the first time they fought though...and was 9-0 even before the rematch with Ali. Foster an ATG light heavy as well...I don't really see one anyone can hate on that 10+ fight opponent wise for Ali. Floyd fought, consecutively: Arturo Gatti Sharmba Mitchell Zab Judah Carlos Baldomir Oscar De La Hoya Ricky Hatton Juan Manuel Marquez Shane Mosley Victor Ortiz Miguel Cotto Robert Guerrero Marcos Maidana Marcos Maidana Manny Pacquiao Andre Berto 15 straight world champions to end his career (I don't count the McGregor or Nasukawa nonsense) Man I assume you're a Floyd guy....and don't get me wrong, he is a great boxer...I don't take that away from him...but to be honest I just don't really know how people look at that list you gave, especially considering the ages/form of some of those guys, and any weight/home field advantage restrictions...and come away saying 'wow, look at how impressive this was'...sorry just don't really see it.

Just was looking at it again And Liston 2x...Norton 3x...Frazier 3x...Foreman...and I'll say Holmes even though Ali was done at that point...but you could easily add Foster, or the first Patterson fight, Shavers, Lyle, Young. I just can't think of anyone else who took on that level of competition in like 10+ fights, vs top fighters all in their relative prime physically...a lot of them in pretty neutral venues/not just one venue. Just crazy. - -That U can't think describes the limitations of U assertion. Just crazy!

Floyd fought, consecutively: Arturo Gatti Sharmba Mitchell Zab Judah Carlos Baldomir Oscar De La Hoya Ricky Hatton Juan Manuel Marquez Shane Mosley Victor Ortiz Miguel Cotto Robert Guerrero Marcos Maidana Marcos Maidana Manny Pacquiao Andre Berto 15 straight world champions to end his career (I don't count the McGregor or Nasukawa nonsense)

At least 1 and arguably 2 fixes versus Liston, 1 and possibly 2 gifts versus Norton. Patterson was washed up and he still fought him twice. Foster was a light heavy. Gift over Young, and some argue Jones. Quite a few fighters out there who had ten opponents and performances that were more impressive.

That Ali had to come back form defeat is part of the reason he's the GOAT. After the losses to Frazier and Norton, everyone thought he was finished, an also-ran. He went into the fight with Foreman as something like a 7 to 1 underdog and won by KO. One of the reason's Fury's comeback is such a story is because of the parallels with Ali's comeback - it's the drama people love. Sure, if you dig into Ali's second title reign you can find some controversial wins and serious cherry-picking opponents. But almost every champ has some "controversial wins". The ones that don't were either cherry-picking bums, or they weren't champ for very long because they lost! Ali beating Foreman is just probably the best win ever in my book...considering the circumstances...Fury does have a bit of Ali in him, I think that is true...both very smart fighters in the ring.

That Ali had to come back form defeat is part of the reason he's the GOAT. After the losses to Frazier and Norton, everyone thought he was finished, an also-ran. He went into the fight with Foreman as something like a 7 to 1 underdog and won by KO. One of the reason's Fury's comeback is such a story is because of the parallels with Ali's comeback - it's the drama people love. Sure, if you dig into Ali's second title reign you can find some controversial wins and serious cherry-picking opponents. But almost every champ has some "controversial wins". The ones that don't were either cherry-picking bums, or they weren't champ for very long because they lost!

Yes, Ali never ducked anybody. And he won his fights late in his career with an iron chin, and wearing down his opponent. Very different from how he won fights early in his career. And that is an incredibly rare thing in an athlete. If both Liston fights were fixed (good chance they were), is it possible that Sonny Liston was the best heavyweight of the era, and one of the greatest of all time? Certainly arguable, if that were the case...I don't know enough about those fights to comment on whether or not they were fixed...though the rematch did seem odd. With Liston dying, and with the uncertainty about his age, I don't think he was really in Ali's era anyway...more like the era before.

Carl Froch. Starting with the Pascal fight, that was a serious gauntlet with the exception of the Mack fight.

As much as anything I respect his ability to take on great fighters routinely on (seemingly) level terms Yes, Ali never ducked anybody. And he won his fights late in his career with an iron chin, and wearing down his opponent. Very different from how he won fights early in his career. And that is an incredibly rare thing in an athlete. If both Liston fights were fixed (good chance they were), is it possible that Sonny Liston was the best heavyweight of the era, and one of the greatest of all time?

Good points. I think Ali probably benefited from numerous fixed fights during the course of his career. Not that Ali was aware of this, but they were too many fights, like the ones against Norton, and both of the Liston fights, that seemed suspicious or that went against him. Ali was a truly great fighter. But maybe not even the best heavyweight of his era. Well never know. As much as anything I respect his ability to take on great fighters routinely on (seemingly) level terms

Probably not to be honest, top of my head. Certainly not at Heavyweight that’s for sure. Someone like Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Harry Greb you could probably argue. To beat Liston and Foreman when they were Champion is an extremely impressive feat alone. Let alone the rest.

This is true...all you can really do is be the man of your era and then let the chips fall where they may I'll have to look into those 2 guys again...can't quite recall their resumes in full...BHop was a guy who came to mind for me as well but I didn't go through his resume again in detail either DLH fought a modern day great list. Genaro Hernandez, Miguel Angel Gonzalez, Rafael Ruelas, Oba Carr, Felix Trinidad, Ike Quartey, Pernell Whitaker, past prime JCC, Shane x 2, then Bernard. Annoying as a promoter but great fighter.

If Ali wasn't at least a very good fighter, he would not have been able to beat so many other good fighters. I believe LL fought a more diverse crop of fighters (tall, boxing Klit, short squat Tua, all around athletic Holyfield), and I would venture to say that many of those he beat would have been favored over Ali's opponents. That is keeping in mind that LL and his opponents were generally much larger than Ali and the gang. "Big" George was only 220 lbs when he fought his stupid game plan vs Ali. This is very fair...I generally am not one to over-rate past eras...athletes tend to get bigger and stronger over time...hard to compare eras in most sports...especially boxing, even at HW

No, off the top of my head i cant think of anyone. And dont forget Ali literally used sparring as a way to prepare for the punishment to come in the ring, he was a heavybag for some huge punchers that Ali let pound on him as he lay on the ropes, you are talking about taking punishment day after day from the likes of: Holmes Witherspoon Dokes Jimmy ellis Tony tubbs Eddie mustafa muhammad No wonder he started showing signs of brain damage in his mid to late 30s. Btw i just finished the Jonothan Eig book about Ali, and i cant recommend it enough.

I think Ali's showing in those fights is important too...you bring up a good point...which for me is to say that when a great, even ATG, faces other great fighters in their primes...it will largely be a mixed bag in those fight...averaging about .500 probably. Personally I don't see the comparison skill-wise between the guys I mentioned for Ali and those you mentioned for Lewis...3-5 of those fights may fit the bill...but not 10-11 fights like Ali had. I do think that dominating against solid pros is as good of a win generally as a less impressive win over a faded former great...but the difficulty of facing 10+ guys all in their primes, at HW no less, I mean I see why many call him the GOAT...I can't think of anyone else who faced that level of top competition...unfortunately he probably felt the affects of that for years to come. If Ali wasn't at least a very good fighter, he would not have been able to beat so many other good fighters. I believe LL fought a more diverse crop of fighters (tall, boxing Klit, short squat Tua, all around athletic Holyfield), and I would venture to say that many of those he beat would have been favored over Ali's opponents. That is keeping in mind that LL and his opponents were generally much larger than Ali and the gang. "Big" George was only 220 lbs when he fought his stupid game plan vs Ali.

He was in some great fights. The problem I have is that we know that Liston 2 was rigged, he lost to Frazier, and very well could have lost to Norton 3x. Good points. I think Ali probably benefited from numerous fixed fights during the course of his career. Not that Ali was aware of this, but they were too many fights, like the ones against Norton, and both of the Liston fights, that seemed suspicious or that went against him. Ali was a truly great fighter. But maybe not even the best heavyweight of his era. Well never know.

All you can do is be at all the beasts of your day. Holyfield fought everyone as did lewis. This is true...all you can really do is be the man of your era and then let the chips fall where they may Oscar De La Hoya and Shane Mosley I'll have to look into those 2 guys again...can't quite recall their resumes in full...BHop was a guy who came to mind for me as well but I didn't go through his resume again in detail either Sorry, Lewis didn`t fight Foreman, Bowe, Holmes, Moorer. So, no, Lennox didn`t fight all the best. Also fair...no fights with Bowe and Holmes hurts him in a way...even if it was Bowe's fault Nobody else has ever become HW champ, cleaned out the division and beat everyone, then come back after a long layoff to do it all over again 10 years later. The only other HW that even comes close is Foreman, and he was pretty choosy in both his runs. To my mind I agree Lennox is top 10 hw, but nowhere near Ali. Norton was a great fighter himself, so having 3 close fights with him is nothing wrong. I don`t know If you even know Ali also beat Patterson, Chuvalo, Lyle, Shavers, Quarry, Folley, Bonavena and so on. Good post To be a great champion you have to face every possible contender in your division, and beat them 'Or duel with them'. That is what Muhammad Ali did, that is what Lennox Lewis did and even Wladimir Kiltschko. The only championship holder doing that today is Anthony Joshua 'This is why I don't rate Tyson Fury as a champion, he is the number 1 heavyweight right now but? As soon as he going gets tough, he wants to get out of he game'. Wlad did...but it was a pretty weak era by all accounts...AJ, he hasn't even fought who many feel are the top 2 guys yet lol...and Lennox was great, but as some have said, he had some misses too.

He was in some great fights. The problem I have is that we know that Liston 2 was rigged, he lost to Frazier, and very well could have lost to Norton 3x. That is 5-4-1 in those 10 bouts. Lewis beat prime Tua, Klit, Ruddock, Bruno, Holyfield 2x, Mercer, Morrison, Tony Tucker, blasted out Golota, Grant, Botha, Rahman in revenge match... I think Ali's showing in those fights is important too...you bring up a good point...which for me is to say that when a great, even ATG, faces other great fighters in their primes...it will largely be a mixed bag in those fight...averaging about .500 probably. Personally I don't see the comparison skill-wise between the guys I mentioned for Ali and those you mentioned for Lewis...3-5 of those fights may fit the bill...but not 10-11 fights like Ali had. I do think that dominating against solid pros is as good of a win generally as a less impressive win over a faded former great...but the difficulty of facing 10+ guys all in their primes, at HW no less, I mean I see why many call him the GOAT...I can't think of anyone else who faced that level of top competition...unfortunately he probably felt the affects of that for years to come.

To be a great champion you have to face every possible contender in your division, and beat them 'Or duel with them'. That is what Muhammad Ali did, that is what Lennox Lewis did and even Wladimir Kiltschko. The only championship holder doing that today is Anthony Joshua 'This is why I don't rate Tyson Fury as a champion, he is the number 1 heavyweight right now but? As soon as he going gets tough, he wants to get out of he game'.