I would say Ivan Drago is the best white heavyweight of all times, this guy hit that thingee with something like 2000 pounds pressure, that is more than the aVERAGE heavyweight (700) and your typical pit bull`s bite (900).
Commentator: "What's your gameplan against Roy Jones Jr. on Saturday?"
Tony Thornton: "Huh?...you tell me....."
Commentator: "What do you have to do tonight to be victorious?"
"Smokin' Bert Cooper: "I'll do what it takes...I got bills to pay."
Commentator: "You fought the Kid right before he fought and died by Grifffith, right?"
Gene Fullmer: " Yes, I fought him right before he faced Griffith, I remember...that was the worst beating, er...I beat him worse than anybody that I had ever given a beating up to in my life up to that point"
Bill Miller (former James Toney trainer, before Jones fight): Roy can't fight...Because nobody taught him how to fight. It's like a lamb being led to the Slaughter...he doesn't want it...but he's gotta have it. Better give him what he ask for"
I really admire the sense of humor that most of you have. Chavez-Taylor is one of the most controversial fights of all time. Period. I will break it down for everybody using 5th grader logic. Chavez-Taylor=controversy, Chavez-Whittaker=controversy, Chavez-Randall-Contoversy, Don King=Controversy, Chavez+Don King=? Yep, controversy. Steele took some bribes for this fight and others, Everybody and their grandma knew it was last round, less than 10 seconds left in fight(warning bell rings when 10 seconds left in round) They both took punishment, Latinos are more vulnerable to body shots than face...Taylor had uglier face, Chavez had body damage...great fight though
I dunno about the best or worst or whatever, but the most memorable and classic goes back to the 90's...Hector Camacho vs. Vinny Pazienza. Vinny goes to the ring first, playing his usually music of the time and doing his Vinny dance or whatever. I remember Camacho coming into the ring wearing Native American (Indian) outfit with the Chief head thing full of feathers and a bunch of Native peoples following him. Instead of the country anthems we get today, Camacho chants some Indian rituals while doing that dance that Tatanka (WWF) made famous. All the while Pazienza just looks at him, as if to say "this guy must be on coke". Funny stuff, classic stuff and Camacho wins the decision pretty easily. Look on you-tube for it.
Great guess and theory about what was in the mysterious bottle in Pryor vs. Arguello. Aaron Pryor is one of my fave boxers of all time (39-1, 36 Kos). Using 5th grade logic let's find out what was in this bottle. Aaron Pryor=great boxer/coke head, Panama Lewis=infamous trainer/scumbag, Alexis Arguello=legend boxer/classy guy, Pryor-Arguello=great superfight of 80's/tiring fight, Pryor's past fight history=rarely goes distance/much less 15 rounds, Mysterious bottle=coke/caffeinated concoction. It was well documented that by this time, Pryor was a coke fiend (much like Whittaker years later) and both were somewhat defeated by the white stuff. A bit of the white stuff mixed with whatever liquid would rejuvenate Pryor and Whittaker. Much like when Robocop 2 was re-energized by some pink stuff in that movie after getting a beating.
I agree with that last guy...Mosley was so talented...even though he has 5 losses now, he has never been stopped and showed well vs. Cotto. At age 36, I had the fight a draw. You get the feeling, if he gets in shape he can beat everybody on the list. Also Tito fought everybody, ducking no-one, and mostly lost to bigger guys (no welterweight beat him), he gets points for that. Mayweather is talented but he the most boring on the list.
P4P top Ten: Centepede Version
1) Sugar Ray Robinson
2) Muhammed Ali
3) Roberto Duran
4) Henry Armstrong
5) Willie Peps
6) Marvin Hagler
7) Harry Grebs
8) Carlos Monzon
9) Emile Griffiths
10) Eder Jofre, Ray Leonard, Sandy Saddler
I saw alot of superfights during the 80's when they were on free t.v. or replays, we had tons. Hearns-Leonard saga, Leonard-Duran trilogy, Hagler-Duran, Hagler-Leonard, Pryor-Arguello series and Tyson-Spinks. Hagler-Hearns was a war as we all know, but the most ferocious fighter I saw during these times was probably Aaron Pryor. He was ahead of his time, probably why nobody talks about him. He was part Tyson, part Paquaio, part Gatti. This is as close a description I can give. He was never boring that's for sure. During a Ring Magazine interview years ago he complained about top fighters ducking him during his career, he named names and it was shocking.
How to punch with awesome power= Cory Spinks
Amazing footwork and boxing techniques= John Ruiz
Solid boxing fundamentals= Naseem Hamed
Body Punching 101= Yuriorkis Gamboa
How to cash in after boxing career=Mike Tyson
Good point there...I really did not know Mayweather fought a guy that was 1-13. That is an embarassment for Mayweather fans. At least Gamboa fights tough guys with winning records. He keeps his hands low like Naseem Hamed, but he gets centepede points for fighting a tuff, experience guy like Jiminez, who had a solid record and outstanding amateur career(4 time Golden Golves champ). This in Gamboa's 10th fight. But lets face it, Leon Spinks won the Heavyweight title from Ali in his 10th fight and kept his hands up while doing it. There is no real connection there, I just felt like throwing that in. My bad.
I agree...but a good promotional company doesn't hurt a defected Cuban boxer trying to make money. Mario Mesa is even more accomplished than Gamboa...he beat Amir Khan for Gold Medal at the last Olympics. Look out for a Cuban Heavyweight to start making noise...Gamboa is only 1 part of the Cuban hitlist(defectors). And to be honest, his name is cool sounding, but he is not the best Cuban I ever saw fight on t.v. Stevenson was smooth, Savon was calculating and athletic, Casamajor was just phenomenal(1992 champion, same Olympics as de la Hoya).
Edwin Rosario was a top boxer in the 80's. Jr. Lightweight and Lightweight. He had an extraordinary chin for a fighter that small. He Fought everybody back then, real tough guys. I have never seen or heard of anybody actually knocking him down, though he was stopped a couple of times, I don't think anybody actually knocked him down though. You guys might have to check on that. Anyways, Jiminez made me remember Rosario...who was a great warrior.
Gamboa is a typical Cuban fighter...gifted but after years as amateurs, they have perfected the amateur style to the point where they show up flaws as pros. Just about every amateur Cuban boxer fights like that... though not as arrogant as Gamboa. Casamajor was brilliant as an amateur...the best I ever saw...he was like a Pernell Whittaker and both adapted well as pros. Gamboa fights like Naseem Hamed and we all know what happened to him when he faced a seasoned pro(Barrera). There was another Cuban fighter called Mario Mesa...who was even more accomplished than Gamboa. This guy beat up Amir Khan a bunch of times and then retired. In fact, Khan lost to him for the Gold medal, and got silver instead. Cuba is the best at amateur boxing, last time they got 9 medals in boxing (there is like 12 divisions) U.S.A. got zero medals...they suck.
I saw this film called "Ring of Fire"...which is pretty much a boxing doc about Emile Griffith killing Benny "the Kid " Paret in a title match. The old man in the movie (some kind of coach/former boxer) said the reason Griffith is a legend is because he fought whoever was the #1 challenger at the time, then #2, and so on until no one was left. He went on to say that nowadays, the promoters look in the yellow pages to find a "suitable opponent" for the champion to fight. This guy was old and seemed to know alot...He made good sense to me. Sometimes a legend is little more than what is expected from being just a "champion". Griffith also visited Paret in the hospital before he died, but they wouldn't let him in the room. I don't want to spoil the end for anybody...watch it for yourself.
The question needs to be more clear...In terms of "wasted potential" Zab Judah is the top. Keep in mind that in terms of talent he could have beaten all the guys he lost to. He was leading Mayweather on my card up until around 8, then he messed up, he was still in the fight even after the brawl. I think Naseem hamed is a close second, followed by Mike Tyson. Iron Mike was never the same type of fighter after Buster Douglas knocked him out at age 23. Nobody what anybody thinks. Mike was done after that fight.
Ice Man is absolutely right. Even though I am a Hagler fan and thought he won the fight anyways. Props to Ray Leonard for fighting " the best fight of his life" hands down. Personally, he should have retired afterwards since he didn't give Hagler a rematch...He didn't have any significant matches after that and got stopped by an old Hector Camacho of all peoples. here are my reasons why he gets props:
1) He didn't fight for 3 years at least, no tune-up at all, not even against a mandatory "gimme" (I don't like to use the word "BUM") fight.
2) He was handicapped (Detached retina surgery)
3) He boxed cleanly (he might have ran abit, but it looked good)
4) Hagler was still strong as a bull at age 35.
5) There were no clearcut advantages for Leonard other than the ring, which was about the size of a hockey rink.
6) A real exciting fight for 2 Legends, worth the money, unlike the fights we get today (i.e. Mayweather/De la Hoya)
Roy Jones, James Toney and Michael Nunn in that order. Roy in the 90's was unbeaten and pretty much invincible. He was only beat when he became a shot fighter (old). Toney in shape beats everybody at that weight except Jones. He was only beat because of too many hamburgers ( he gained 17 for Jones fight). Nunn was under-rated because of his style, but when fired up could outbox everybody and he had a great upper-cut (a punch you don't see much anymore). I think the last middle-weight champ with no known weaknesses was Marvin Hagler: iron chin, power, combos, technique, intimidation, bald head. yep, Hagler is the man.
Stevenson and Savon are in a class by themselves, because of politics we never got to see these guys win pro titiles. They could have though because Cubans are tough mofos...I visited Cuba several times and was impressed, the average Cuban street thug looked intimidating, he also spoke 3 languages. Back to the question, Ike could have been a world champ easily. Howard Davis jr. beat Aaron pryor in the amateurs twice, and held Meldrick Taylor to a draw in his prime(pre-Chavez), he also beat some Cubans for his gold medals(best U.S. Olympic squad ever)...I agree with you guyz on that one, he tanked in the pros.
I have visited Cuba and respect the people and the fighters there. They are tough, and have honor and work ethic(discipline). Not their fault they have communist politics. This question not even close IMO, If Cuba had same Capitalist politics and opportunity, they might very well dominate the pros. Also don't forget, unlike the Mexicans and PortoRicans, Cubans have fighters in all the weight classes. If they fight this hard for free, imagine if they all got paid. Mayweather is filthy rich and doesn't even fight half as hard as the Cubans. Kid Gavilan is a legend Cuban guy, fought everybody...never been knocked out in over 100 fights.
That was a controversial call, not the fight cuz it was a fantastic fight. Steele got paid off simply put. Even me grandmother was watching the fight with me back then and jumped up and shouted "Why did they stop the fight?". Seems to me that this was in his mind all fight long, to stop it prematurely if Taylor was rocked once. Taylor took some good shots there, but he's a pro and it comes with the territory, Steele knew this. He was paid off IMO. Chavez was a bull though, a great fighter. Mexicans try to follow in this guy's footsteps...a good thing. Mexican fighters are the most exciting right now to watch,
Best American fighter: ....who really cares?
I think J.C. Chavez was greatest mexican fighter. He was like a mini Mike Tyson...a real bull. And he had some pretty good skills to match. I was always impressed with this guy, and I think he paved the way for this era's great Mexican boxers with technical skills (Barrera, Marquez, Margarito). I'm sure he is considered god-like in Mexico. A quote he said that I like before his fight with Hector Camacho (translated of course).
"If I lose to this F*GG0T, I would not be able to show my face through-out Mexico"
Man, I miss guys like Chavez, hell, I would take Naseem Hamed right about now. At least it was fun watching him so he could get beat up.
Partly agreed. International appeal is a factor. Manny Pacquaio has this. Exciting style is a factor. Arturo Gatti had this, Pacqio also. PPv numbers is a bonus factor. Hoya mastered this.
Nope. Whitaker beat A Prime Hoya, Chavez, McGirt and Floyd`s Uncle Roger. Mayweather a great fighter, but he dropped the ball vs. Hoya and Zab was a close fight until the chaos. Castillo beat him the first time. he avenged the loss, but still...Prime Whitaker beats this clown. I don`t know where you guyz get your info...I just watch the tapes or classics on Satelitte.
You guyz know your stuff. I am not as politically correct as you all, but I agree. I always maintained that Latinos cannot take a good body shot. Head shots they absorb like nothing. Cotto, Chavez, Morales, now Margorito all wilted after a sustained body attack. That is basically the key in beating a Latino fighter...Mosley did a good job there.
Agreed. Margorito. But Hagler has the greatest chin of all time pound-for-pound. Chuvalo is the best, but gets hit too much. Hagler was unmarked after his last fight, and walked thru everybody`s bombs. Mugabi, Hearns, Brisco, Seales.
This one is almost a no-brainer. Here`s my list of top corrupt boxing referees of the last 50 years. Before that, the majority were corrupt anyways.
1)Marlon Lewis (Bute vs. Andrade) doesn`t get any lower than this guy. He is like Bute`s best buddy or something.
2)Richard Steele (Taylor vs. Chavez, and many others) The most infamous ref of them all. He`s dirty, rotten and scoundrel. Always favors 1 fighter over another, and we usually find out during the fight who he favors.
3) Cortez ( Many fights featuring latinos) Another ref who takes many bribes, in english or spanish he is bilingually rotten.
4) Randy Neumann (Heavy-weight fights) This guy is dirty, fat, and ugly. He also spends alot of his bribe money on escorts and hamburgers.
5) Referee X (Tunney-Dempsey 2) Long count is one thing, but super-long no count is just plain ridiculous. Tunney was on the floor for 15 seconds, before getting up. After 10, you are knocked out! End of post.
JM Marquez is a great fighter, probably the best-skilled mexicano of them all. His counter-punching ability is phenomenal and believe it or not, I rate him above Chavez, Barrera, or Morales. I think only Salvador Sanchez and Ricardo Lopez have top skillz for a Mexicano. Marquez joins this group. He beat Casamajor, who had 400 + fights in his career. Blah Blah Blah
One of the great Superfights of the 90's. Toney was awesome throwback and got to showcase his skillz after knocking out Michael Nunn. Too bad Roy Jones was at his pinnacle that night...he would have beating up anybody. Classic is the videotape of the fight, which we still have on VHS. Here's the best line from Toney's trainer Bill Miller; "Roy can't fight, nobody taught him how to fight. James will beat him...uh...It's like a lamb being led to the slaughter...he don't want it...but he's gotta have it... Gotta give him what he ask for." This was called the "Uncivil War" and though it was pretty one-sided in favor of Jones, Toney would keep coming back and stay competitive for the next 12 years or so. While Roy...well he never looked this good again. Period.
Casamajor has got this. Even at his age, he can still hang with the best. His weight advantage will be the decider as Marquez hasn't got the power to crack Casa's chin.