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good times.
i actually agree. this is no different than roy jones calling out fans to fight him. if conor makes this competitive or god forbid wins boxing as sport will suffer the worst black eye ever. there will be no recovery from the humiliation. conor wins regardless because a loss doesn't affect his status as an MMA fighter and it doesn't taint the UFC. all pressure is on floyd. the whole sport is on his back.
as far as influence nobody is surpassing ali. but it needs to be understood that ali in his prime was hated even more than floyd. he had his hardcore fans but most ppl disliked him for his loud mouth and affiliation to islam. white america even adopted joe Frazier as their own when he faced ali. this is all history. ali became universally liked and admired when he was frail and sick and the world saw him shaking and barely walking at the Olympics. thats when ali was placed on a pedestal.
tyson was like a damn action figure. his aura was unmatched. still to this day nobody has reached that tyson aura. even though his "prime" was short tyson reached god status around the world in no time. being heavyweight champ was like being king of the world. being the greatest welterweight will never carry that heavyweight aura. ray robinson is supposedly the best ever at welter yet he didn't reach half the recognition as ali in his prime.
if were strictly talking boxing skills though then floyd is TBE. period. better than ali, tyson, robinson, whoever.. hes the most accurate, the least touched, the greatest boxing iq etc.. hes the perfect boxer. bottom line.
i dont give a damn if ward hit his nutz with a sledgehammer. he came in the ring promising to end Ward's career, break his hands and ribs.. then resorts to crying like a hoe to the ref?! man fck outta here. this is the big bad wolf, the krusher right? ward the smaller guy moving up to take your crown.. and kovalev allowed himself to be manhandled and thoroughly beat down. ward was destroying him. kovalev body language told the ref "im finished" because earlier in the fight he was complaining about shots that were legal and ref had to tell him to stfu and keep fighting.
Kovalev wanted to quit and was looking for an exit strategy. he didn't dispute the stoppage until he saw his corner crying like hoes. he didn't want to be in the ring anymore.
tony weeks should've sat back and let ward put him on a stretcher. thats my only complaint. kovalev was on his way to being knocked out cold and was saved.
Your favorite boxer won and by KO so enjoy it. I was hoping and expecting a Kovolev win but it didn't happen. Sometimes fights don't go the way you think they will or the way you want them to go. You shouldn't be too hard on Kovalev fans like me for backing the boxer we liked and believed in. After all you backed Ward to the hilt because you like him and believe in him. Nobody really has to eat crow for backing the wrong boxer in such a close fight. I have changed my mind about both fighters. Ward is much better than I thought he was with punching power I didn't think he had. I doubt any boxer his weight can beat him and he can leave boxing as an undefeated winner whenever he wants to. Kovalev is not as good as I thought he was. I wish him well but I am no longer a big Kovalev fan. I think Ward ruined him and he won't ever be as good as he was.
lol wtf. im guessing this is how Pacquiao fans felt after floyd schooled him.
rigo still a hoe. talked way too much sht to quit like that. loma had to hear nonstop how he was ducking. rigo clowned walters for quitting now look at him..
Floyd never fought any of them at their best. So your argument is null and void. His legacy is smoke and mirrors, fodder for casuals who drink up his self-congratulatory "0", that was built upon B-rate fighters and elites who were never at their best. If Loma becomes undisputed champ at any weight he will already accomplish something Floyd never bothered to do.
floyd was undisputed beating baldomir. its just that baldomir refused to pay sanctioning fees. then he also beat judah. if thats not undisputed nothing is. and like I said you can tear apart any resume if thats what you set out to do. just how ppl say ray leonard beat an out of shape duran in rematch then got a gift vs hagler. any resume can be ripped to shreds I dont care who it is. the thing is this name one boxer from floyds era that defeated the same level of comp he did?
he didn't fight any of them at their "best"? now what does that even mean. this "prime" talk is out of control because if you wanna be realistic floyd hasn't been "prime" since he began suffering horrible hand injuries. and that was more than 10 years ago. yet he continued to beat these guys. so Imma need you to define "prime". does it strictly have to do with being young? cuz if thats the case canelo was at his absolute prime vs floyd yet detrators say he was "green". explain "prime".
again Im not saying loma is not capable. but he doesn't have the same big name opponents that floyd had to choose from. corey spinks was also undipusted so you must rank him above floyd then? quality of competition means more for a legacy than undisputed. period. for example if crawford was to beat thurman that one win alone would be his biggest accomplishment even bigger than undisputed at 140. loma doesn't have the names available.
Hey man im not saying Salido is as good as Castillo lmao, i'm just saying the Floyd-Castillo fight resembled the Salido-Lomachenko fight and both fights could have gone either way...
those fights did not resemble each other at all.. salido/loma was foul filled throughout. both guys guilty. salido had low blows and loma was nonstop hugging. ref let both do whatever they pleased.
1) I never claimed or insinuated that Montell Griffin was ever a 'bum'. I have a very strict definition for what constitutes as a bum (BELOW - USABLE - MEASURE) to me. That is: a boxer with less than 12 fights or boxer with 12 or more bouts with 25% losses out of their win/loss career record.
So it was actually to the contrary. I was actually making the point that Montell Griffin was one of the only few boxers Roy Jones Jr ever boxed against that was technically and fundamentally sound from a boxing skills perspective.
2) Roy Jones Jr did get 'exposed'. Even though he made adjustments later on and then managed to beat Montell Griffin. He was losing the early rounds and subsequently had his weaknesses exposed (technical deficiencies). However, he also exposed his own advantages (athletic attributes) that enabled him to eventually defeat Montell Griffin. This is merely constructive criticism without any bias or hate.
3) Roy Jones Jr has beaten no opponent in his career to suggest he can easily, if at all beat the likes of Artur Beterbiev or Oleksandr Gvozdyk. Simply because, Roy Jones Jr has never proven himself by beating opponents with styles that Artur Beterbiev and Oleksandr Gvozdyk use, along with other attributes they possess at light heavyweight. Roy Jones Jr never faced or beat an opponent with the punching power of Artur Beterbiev that was in his prime. Nor did Roy Jones Jr ever beat an opponent in his prime who is as fundamentally sound, fluid, rangy, as good an out-boxer, as good a lateral and in and out mover as Oleksandr Gvozdyk.
and what opponents have biterbiev and gvozdyk faced to suggest they would beat roy?
define "expose" because we're on different pages now. if griffin exposed roy he would've won the rematch. period. exposed to me means you have your opponent measured and figured out. a good example is marquez vs pacquiao. marquez had manny figured out. that KO punch he landed was choreographed through his whole camp and the exact sequence happened. thats exposed.
and roy also schooled toney who is light years ahead of any LHW today in terms of technical skill. james toney beats the dog sht out of gvozdyk.
biterbiev in front of roy will look like he stuck in quicksand. he slow as a snail roy will light him up like a christmas tree.
you put this on a poll and roy will win a landslide. from 93 to around 2004 roy was arguably the greatest boxer in history. I would pick him to beat anybody I dont care what era it is. ppl say he just relied on athleticism and lacked technical skills. well maybe you should not define "technical skills" as jab jab right hand.
lebron james also relies heavily on athleticism and hes arguably the most complete ballplayer in history. you can say tim duncan was "technically" better as far as fundamentals but put them head to head match up and lebron smokes him.
roy jones is lebron. gvozdyk is not even a tim duncan cuz he hasn't accomplished sht. gvozdyk at this point is just chris dudley (google him).
and biterbiev with his slow ass wont land a damn thing. he will look just like john ruiz his arms will look like they weigh 500 pounds.
watch this video in its entirety >>> https://youtu.be/OBYxHoBmzls
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this mofo has prescott problems
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biterbiev - roy beats the dog sht outta him. slow ass built like a transformer he'll be swinging at air all night.
kovalev - roy beats the dog **** outta him. I think you must've forgot how blindly fast roy is. kovalev will be gun shy.
stevenson - punchers chance. he has that one hitter quitter so I'll give him the best shot.
gzvdky (is that how u spell it? fck it) - he aint matching roys speed what planet u from. roy beats the eyebrows off his ass.
and when df did roy "struggle" with griffin? fake news. you clearly must've forgot.
Wow the RJJ dick riding is off the charts in this thread. He was great. Saying he would clean up the LHW division of today is fantasy.
How would he do against Stevenson? Possibly well because I think he would neutralize that left hand quite skillfully.
How would he do against Kovalev? Nobody can say for sure. RJJ might eat a jab and it could wobble him, let alone a right from Kovalev. His chin might hold up but will RJJ be able to maintain his composure and focus after getting hit? Kovalev’s boxing skills are very underrated, he is much more than just a puncher.
What about Gvozdyk? Gvozdyk is skilled with a strong punch. He reminds of Kovalev. He might hang in there skill wise, land and hurt RJJ.
Against Bivol? Not enough for me to base upon. We would have more to judge Bivol with after the Barrera fight. Bivol is a strong puncher and if he touches RJJ he could hurt him.
Against Beterbiev? Beterbiev is a strong puncher, but he is very inactive and might not have the boxing skills to hang in with RJJ, but again this is boxing, a punch might land and hurt RJJ.
RJJ was great, today’s top LHWs are great as well. They have different boxing skills, but have crazy strong punching power. And no matter the skill, anyone eating a few punches to the head from these guys might lose all focus, forget about skills and go into survival mode.
exactly. you just gave all these guys a punchers chance. meaning even you know RJJ would mop the damn floor with all of them. every opponent has a damn punchers chance.. well maybe not malignaggi.
montell griffin had two wins over james toney (debate those decisions all u want) which basically gives griffin a better resume than all those guys you listed combined. but since RJJ beat the breaks off montell hes now disparaged as a bum.
being humble or not can be just fighters playing a character. for how many years did ppl say manny was humble then turns out this mofo was cheating on his wife, paying hookers hush money and rolling with crooked politicians. then floyd plays the villain role and gets hated but he paid for the funeral of a fallen boxer. that's some humble sht to do. and in the aftermath of his fight with manny he is giving his opponent nonstop love and respect while manny refuses to return the favor.
this whole humble/brash sht is an illusion. we don't know these mofos behind the cameras. theres people that know mcgregor personally that say hes not really the way he portrays. but the sht works for him.
floyd portrays the nightlife and party life but you've never seen him out of shape, in drug rehab and he never takes an opponent lightly. isn't that humble?
de la hoya was marketed as the humble pretty boy all his career. but look at the sht he was into that was later exposed. promoters need guys to create an image that they can push. some fighters are willing to play along while others say fck all that and just focus on winning fights.
after the pacquiao/hatton fight someone from pacquiaos corner motions him to get on his knees and pray for the viewers. showing his whole image was fabricated. im not saying hes a horrible person but boxing is theater at the end of the day.
sugar ray robinson has 185 losses and hes the goat 🐐. so a loss shouldn't matter that much. loma has the skills but what he lacks is the big name opponents, something floyd had an abundance of throughout his career.
john david jackson turned algieri into an animal that night. gotta salute the trainer for that overnight transformation. nobody saw that coming he wanted to take khans head off. . I haven't sat down to score it but I remember thinking I would have no problem with a draw.
unwritten rule in boxing you keep whatever happens in the gym amongst yourselves. spence runnin his mouth like a ol hoe. just say no comment and keep it pushing. even though he says it in a half asleep tone you know hes bragging. you gotta respect the culture. he did the same wit broner.
In the first match, Montell Griffin was indeed superior because he won and was ahead on the scorecard. I mentioned nothing about the second bout. Ergo, that's irrelevant.
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he was ahead on one card. basically losing the fight. so yeah you are fake news. if he didn't fake being hurt he would've met a brutal end because roy was just turning the heat up. stop making up sht.
and he didn't "expose" sht because if he did he wouldn't get his head taken off in one round the next fight. exposed means you have a fighters number and they have you figured out. you can say tarver exposed roy but not griffin. and we know roy cut his prime short losing all that weight.
jones would beat the dog sht out of every LHW today. and stop making griffin out to be some bum. he has two wins over james toney (debate those wins all you want) so that basically gives him a better resume than all those names on your list. griffin was a short slick mofo who could counter punch you to death.
this reminds me of a question posted on boxing forum 24 asking the same thing but about sergio martinez. it was 20 plus pages of debate whether sergio was really "white". ill post the link but it doesnt let me.
as far as loma being the most athletic white boxer. I'll say its between him and calzaghe.
In case you didn't notice I was replying to a Floyd fanboy. Context is everything.
loma cannot surpass floyds legacy. impossible. theres no big name opponent out there that'll put him on the map. mikey vs loma is a harcore fans dream it will not crossover into mainstream. floyd had an endless choice of big name opponents. and you can pick apart the wins on any boxers resume if you focus on that. just like some people say rigo was old, inactive and small. walters was inactive and oh yeah the shadow of salido hanging over loma like a black cloud. you can destroy any resume if you put your mind to it.
cotto, canelo, mosley, de la hoya, marquez & pacquiao are wins loma could never match. not because hes not capable but there are no opponents on this level out there for him.
floyd benefited from a deep talented hall of fame era.
i remember floyd saying he warned broner not to fight maidana. he jumped two divisions to fight the biggest puncher at the weight. yeah he faced paulie with the feather fists but going from that to maidana is night and day.
but my pick would be joan guzman. this dude had all the talent in the world. one of the best defenses I ever seen. I rememer he was being trained by floyd sr in 2007 and they were calling out pacquiao. I remember back then saying he would've been a style nightmare for manny. but it never happened. he suffered from lack of dedication to the sport.
a more recent guy I would pick also is rigondeaux. the guy shot himself in the foot with inactivity and continually stinking out the arena with lackluster performances. no it wasn't the "system" it was his crappy management team and his refusal to make exciting fights. he was constantly matched with bums on the big stage and still felt safe just cruising to a win under an avalanche of boo's. those guys he accused of ducking were never under any pressure because rigo was turning off so many fans. and with his quit job vs loma he buried himself.
broner is still young and thanks to his personality (even if you hate it) he continues getting opportunities on the big stage. he still has time to achieve greatness. first thing I'll do is fire his trainer. broner doesn't respect that guy at all. a boxer who respects his coach wont destroy their own bodies like broner does with alcohol and night life. that guys voice carries no weight. i think robert garcia will be a perfect trainer for him. the culture in the garcia camp is boxing all day and discipline.
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my condolences to all the beautiful souls we lost aboad this train. prayers up. :crucified
one dimensional doesnt necessarily mean the boxer sucks though. winky wright to me was one dimensional. he walked you down shelled up and shot jabs and straight lefts all night. but winky was a nightmare matchup for whoever.
a good example of these styles clashing is provodnikov vs algieri. yes ruslan is one dimensional but he arguably beat the guy with the more "polished" skills.
joe frazier was one dimensional (swarmer) but he gave the more "polished" ali hell three times. you can be one dimensional and be great and even a legend.
I remember lennox lewis once called mike tyson one dimensional. do you agree with that?
but then there are boxers who get this label that I disagree with. golovkin is far from one dimensional but some detractors call him that as if an insult. think of floyds comment "straight up and down" basically calling him basic. a "basic" fighter doesn't do what he did to lemeiux. period. that was a polished boxing clinic.
also there are so called "specialist" boxers who are also one dimensional. I believe rigo was this way. he only had one gear. he measured with the left hand all night. one dimensional doesnt mean you're trash it simply means you are stuck in your ways and everybody knows what to expect.
but then there are boxers who start out one dimensional then add other layers to their game so the label doesnt apply anymore. manny pacquiao a perfect example.
arthur abraham, brandon rios, kelly pavlik, winky, margarito, edison miranda, angulo, joe frazier, trinidad, ricky hatton, wladimir, marciano all come to mind.
and then you have UFC fighters/fans that call ALL boxers one dimensional since their only weapon is hands. so yeah theres that too..