empiricix

That last post should tell you that pac fans don't even know about anything lol ariza is a known cheater smh This lie has long been disproved but flomos keep recycling it in the hope that people who don't know any better will believe it and join their bandwagon of PED-wishers. :loser:

Roach has admitted to having a "don't ask don't tell" policy regarding PED abuse at Wild Card...but saying he supplied them is wrong. Ariza has an affiliation with Trevor Graham and has brought him in as a consultant for Pacquiao's regimen on numerous occasions...the Trevor Graham who is currently serving a lifelong suspension from training olympic athletes due to knowingly doping many athletes. I don't know what the deal is, but often times where there's smoke there's fire. The only consultants that Ariza works with are UCLA nutritionist Teri Tom and dietician Aundrea Macias. The smoke is purely up in your ass.

Nah...There are other examples...But, truthfully no one gives a ****...The only reason why some fans care is because they're Floyd dickridkers...Now there are a few very small percentage that really do care about PED's and better testing. But, it's a very small percentage. Everyone else is making a big hoopla because they have a horse in the race. But, if this was any other fighter for example AA-Ward no one would care. No one would make a fuss about it. Because, no one truly cares. Because, if they did then they would ask questions about other fighters for example AA-Ward. No one dared and still doesn't dare to ask why didn't Ward-AA have the testing? Some don't even know about that situation...But, yet people want to sit here and say atta boy JMM(like if JMM has been doping before) and act like they're some PED experts. When only a very small percentage know anything about it. Pac dickriders will believe the man is clean, no way he juices. Which is fucking ridiculous to think that. While Floyd dickriders will believe or act like he's the only one...And, will not question anyone else of using... They talk about Pac should have an asterisk. I have only read of Pac having an asterisk but yet no one dares to say SRL should have an asterisk as well or Holyfield or even Oscar De la Hoya. Hell people still brag about Roy Jones as freak of nature amazing specimen and fans(who diss Pac) still won't label Roy with an asterisk...But Pac, oh man....Lets shit on him and only him. But, lets not question anyone else who might be juicing ;) And, act like if we're great fans, true fans. What is ridiculous is to accept something without any proof whatsoever except the rantings of flomos and the Mayweathers. Facts and statistics clearly dispute the so-called "signs" that detractors cite when accusing Pac of PED use: the rapid increase in weight over a period of a few years; the increased KO power at the higher weights; the increase in head size; the accusations that Ariza is/was connected to Trevor Graham or had a shady past with PEDs; etc. Even the accusation that PAC rejected OSDT because he has something to hide is wrong because he had always agreed to any test demanded by Floyd even from the start. First, what Floyd demanded was not even Olympic-style drug testing. Second, they only disagreed with the cut-off dates during the first round of negotiations. Third, Arum and Pac have clearly stated that they are now willing to agree to any testing demands that would come up during future negotiations with Floyd. Painting everyone with the same PED brush is what's ridiculous.

Kirkland wanted to catch up on lost time so he fought more frequently soon after leaving prison, perhaps believing that prison made him a lot tougher. Also, he dumped Ann Wolfe, if I'm not mistaken, as soon as he got the Goldenboy contract. ****ty move and cost him against Ishida. He's back with Wolfe now, I believe.

Trevor Graham is banned from coaching any Olympians...He has been brought in by team Pac on numerous occasions Not this again! :pat: Can you give us any link to any credible source that can show that Pac even knows who Graham is, let alone consulted him? Since when has Pac been a track-and-field athlete?

I don't have authority it's the just the way it is and the way most people look at it. Their's nothing wrong with being chicano or mexican. It's just what you are. I don't hate chicanos. I'm just saying why is it that alot of them hate mexicans growing up but once they grow up they root for mexican fighters? The question does boxing bring out the fake in people or the good in people? My 30 yr old cousin has 2 roomates who he grew up with, who would make fun of mexicans including him. But once they grew older he started talking to them and they realized how stupid it was and now all they do is root for mexican fighters. I remember them saying their mom was born in mexico yet they made fun of mexicans. I'm just guessing it's maturity.... I'm not one of them posters that wanna start a race i actually wanna find out about this There's your answer right there. Kids can be so cruel in their ignorance, and the differences don't even need to be racial for them to gang up on other people. It is only when we mature that we can appreciate the beauty in diversity.

Holy crap....another sooo true comes out!! I'm talking about the Fil-Ams that pretend they are another race, the one who's ashamed to be what they are. Then Pac comes out and they are pinoy again....lol. Rather than seeing it as Fil-Ams merely jumping on the Pac bandwagon, why not view it as Pac reawakening Fil-Ams' appreciation for their heritage? I never had the chance to re-discover my roots until Pacquiao, being adopted when I was six by a white couple. Up until ten years ago, I saw myself as just an American. When Pac came on the scene, I was compelled to find out more about my heritage, learn the language and study Phil. history. I guess the same could be said of the Chicanos. They may have seen themselves in a different light as their Mexican brethren due to differences in culture and upbringing, but when a Mexican boxer captures their imagination, their pride in their heritage is awakened.

This is a fight worth salivating over.

what about the clottey fight? that fight told me that pac doesn't have welterweight power. pac threw, what, 1000+ punches? and still could never break through clottey's guard. yet, judah and cotto were able to break through that guard to land hard shots. In his fights with Cotto and Judah, even though Clottey used his high guard frequently, he was confident enough to exchange punches whenever he had the chance. Thus, his wins in those fights. In the Pac fight, Clottey could not to abandon his high guard and slug it out, even though he was having some success in busting up Pac from his infrequent punches. The reason is because he felt (physically) that he had a high chance of getting KTFO'd, which was not the case with Cotto and Judah. So, that tells us something about Pac's power. yeah i know pac kd'ed cotto, but cotto has been knocked down before, and he's been chicken legged before. plus the 145 catchweight may have been a factor. (gotdamn i hated that catchweight bs). after the fifth rd of pac-cotto, when cotto was already finished, pac hit cotto with clean, full power shots, repeatedly, for the rest of the fight, but cotto never got staggered. yeah he bled like a mufukka, but never staggered, never got put on queer street. those same clean shots from a true welter would have dazed cotto. In round 6, Cotto WAS staggered against the ropes, enough for him to wrestle the smaller man to stop his onslaught. and no way pac hits as hard as mosley, so good luck trying to replicate rd 2 of mosley-floyd. By the same token, Mosley couldn't even daze Cotto, who Pac put on queer street. size will be another factor. floyd is too big for pac when you consider that he's just as fast if not faster than pac. i think pac's only chance is to use his quickness and try to outhustle floyd and out-workrate him to a decision, while trying to survive floyd's pinpoint incoming. even if pac somehow is able to find floyd, he ain't knockin out floyd. in other words, it's a longshot that pac beats floyd. Im a pac fan and i even realize this shit. i would love to be proven wrong though. reverse jinx in effect, bitchez! I'm a Pactard, but even I consider a Pac victory 70-30 at the most. There is just no denying May's greatness, skills and physical advantages. But that is precisely why I find this match to be compelling. It gives Pac a chance to achieve his full potential as an ATG fighter, and it gives his fans the opportunity to witness true greatness in their lifetime. Win or lose, that is all any true boxing fan can wish for.

Sorry dude but beating Pac is just not that big a deal! If floyd wins everyone will ask him to fight williams, martinez or cotto.The fight will be huge but when floyd wiins it will be same as it always is on to the next one! Of all of Floyd's previous opponents, no one had been as awesome as Pac in their last fights. Everyone, including Pactards, will give Floyd props if he emerges victorious. So, quit with the excuses and sign already!

Manny Pacquiao is a good fighter but I feel as though he is overrated and people are falling into the HYPE the media surrounds him with. Not to take anything away from him but his career has been crafted to make him into a super star these last few years. Fighting Oscar, Hatton, Cotto & Clottey didnt prove much to me. Oscar at his age could not perform at 147 so that was a give me fight. Hatton had suffered a ko against floyd and in his return bout was staggered in the 10th round only to escape with a victory to be ko in his next fight. Cotto was damaged after the margarito fight and hasnt been the same since. He wasnt the same against jennings, clottey, pac, or foreman. Cotto needs to RETIRE ASAP. And clottey? Well we wont even talk about that character. All im saying is people are blowing this fight up the way FLoyd would want you to. He's been in this hot seat numerous times and one other time that was similar was against Hatton. After Hatton stopped Castilo with a body shot he said "These 4 rounds had more excitment then Floyds whole career". People bought into it, the hype was crazy, I was considered a flomo then as well as now. At the end of the day Floyd is just to technical & Manny makes too many mistakes that Floyd will capitalize on. The fight will be a shut out victory for Floyd. You might not like his style but u have to respect it. Only in hindsight can anyone call Pac's career hyped or deliberately crafted. He took on most of the best in each division that he fought in and won, not only in a convincing fashion, but in devastating fashion. That's why he was able to capture the imagination of fight fans around the world. It cannot be denied that Floyd is a great boxer with overwhelming skills and physical advantages over Pacquiao. But there is a reason why you, me and every other fight fan and boxing expert are salivating over this dream match.

Floyd will be hurt more than Pacquiao, as it is Manny is already overachiving, I am pretty sure none of you guys EVER thought BEFORE, he will reach where he is at now ... This is it in a nutshell. Pac is already viewed as an over-achiever while Floyd is seen as the more talented but under-achieving boxer.

When today is viewed by future generations through the foggy prism of history, only one thing will be remembered about each boxer: Pacquiao's unbelievable championships in 7 weight divisions, the only boxer to have done so; and Mayweather's unfulfilled potential as one of the most talented boxers in history. All other issues such as OST demands, PPV buys, quality of opposition, etc. will no longer be remembered.

This is something that I've always wondered about. Can "skills" in boxing exist even without being validated by tangible results, such as wins? Can we call a boxer skillful when those so-called skills fail to give him solid wins? Or is the proof of the skill in the pudding (winning)?

Money has more HBO fights. They'll be remembered. Pac dodging Shane will be remembered. And the big money draw just like Ali, Tyson, Robinson, Hagler and Leonard will be remembered. What people remember most about Ali, Tyson, Hagler and Leonard is not how much PPV buys they generated or how many HBO fights they had, but their mythical images as great fighters who fought great fights. Pacquiao is somewhat of a mythical figure already at this point in time, what with his remarkable wins over the 3 Mexican greats plus his recent David-and-Goliath bouts against Dela Hoya, Hatton and Cotto. His myth will only grow over time until no one else remembers the details of those wins, only their spectacular outcomes. Further adding to this myth are his difficult-to-replicate 7-division championships and the Fighter of the Year award, in the very same decade where he co-existed with Floyd. On the other hand, Mayweather's wins are less spectacular, and thus, not the stuff that future generations would tend to speak of in glowing terms. In addition, he is not the first nor the only fighter to retire undefeated (if he does retire undefeated). Even his highest-grossing fight with DLH can be overtaken in the future. Thus, Mayweather's only legacy would be his reputation as one of the most skillful boxers who ever fought, albeit one who failed to fulfill his true potential.

All fighters will always have haters who will try and discredit every win. But that shouldn't stop their fans from wanting to see their favorite fighters take on worthy challenges. The problem right now with Floyd is that it's not only his haters who are questioning whether he has lived up to his true potential, but even boxing writers, experts, historians, neutral boxing fans, and, deep in their hearts, his own fans. You can bet the farm that beating Pacquiao would be acknowledged as a legacy-defining victory for Floyd by the vast majority those who are not yet his fans. Only then can succeeding criticisms against Floyd be rightly called as hating.

No one is saying that Omar can't be a boxer and have a life, too. But no one can be a great champion without dedicating himself to his craft first. We've seen too many talented prospects going down the drain without fulfilling their potential due to 'outside distractions'. This is the point in his career that Omar needs to put in those hours of hard work and commitment. The tone of his texts indicate an obsession with celebrity-hood. We all know how that story goes.

Putting aside the fact that Margarito is a cheat who doesn't deserve a payday against Pacquiao, I think he poses a significant threat to Pac. I'd be willing to overlook my prejudice against Margarito just to see that battle.

if funny how you peope try to act like PEDs work for other sports but not a sport such as boxing. its a high activity sport so of course PEDs help just as they do in other sports This is a great example of an a priori argument with nothing to back it up. Does having large muscles provide the same benefit to all athletes from different sports?

HGH is actually counter effective to athletes. http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nat...-from-sta.html http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...U5c&refer=home http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...tool=pmcentrez Harvard Health Letter. Harvard Health Publications. 2008-01-01. https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsl..._Health_Letter. "Used by athletes to build muscle, human growth hormone may in fact make muscles bigger, but not necessarily stronger. HGH is also marketed as an anti-aging treatment, but there are no data about possible side effects from long-term use." A few quotes from the link in bold: "The conclusion is that growth hormone does indeed have powerful effects on fat and carbohydrate metabolism, and in particular promotes the metabolic use of adipose tissue triacylglycerol. However, there is no proof that net protein retention is promoted in adults, except possibly of connective tissue. The overexaggeration of the effects of growth hormone in muscle building is effectively promoting its abuse and thereby encouraging athletes and elderly men to expose themselves to increased risk of disease for little benefit." "In fact, as is argued below, the evidence that GH is anabolic in healthy adults is very poor. Furthermore, there is good evidence that chronic high serum concentrations of GH decrease performance and acutely may even cause metabolic changes in the short term that are likely to diminish the capacity for strenuous physical activity." And I assure you the quotes are not taken out of context, if you dont believe me just check. What makes the issue complicated is the fact that, while the physiological and pharmacokinetic properties of PEDs are well-known and widely-agreed upon, there are NO actual studies that determine their clinical efficacy in a particular sport, such as boxing. No self-respecting scientist or physician would be caught participating in such a study because of its moral implications. Thus, just like in the study you cited, there is no actual empirical proof aside from well-reasoned-out conclusions. The problem is that other studies can reach different conclusions using the same set of data.

im talking about EPO not HGH. i believe pac is on PEDs that enhance endurance and stamina. not promote muscle growth. keep up Sorry for confusing you. The muscle-example was used to illustrate the weakness of your argument that what works well in other sports stands to work equally well in boxing. Have you ever come across a study that empirically shows the level of improvement in endurance and stamina due to any PED? You can cite any sport, if you want.

That's a good question. Oh and could you include a requirement that it be just within a span of two weeks? Cuz that's the window of opportunity that Pac has to ALLEGEDLY CHEAT. I want this put to light to show the shallowness of those questioning Pac's 14 days cut-off. You just made a difficult assignment impossible.

The simple fact of the matter is that no one really knows with scientific accuracy the effects, benefits and side-effects involved in using EPO, HGH or any other PED by boxers. While the physiological and pharmacokinetic effects of any substance is observable from animal and human test subjects, their exact influence on a boxer's performance can only be determined through a random, double-blind study. For instance, Victor Conte may be an expert in how EPO can increase red blood cells, but he doesn't really know with scientific certainty if it will result in significant improvements in a boxer's performance. The improvement may not even be as statistically significant as that from a change in diet or training technique. In fact, a trainer can inject plain saline solution in a boxer and tell him that it is an effective performance-enhancing drug and still see a marked improvement in the boxer's performance. This is because of the placebo effect, wherein the mind is conditioned to expect improvement by the simple act of taking something, and thus, actually results in improvement. Even the tangible benefits provided by PEDs to athletes from other sports cannot be used as a reliable yardstick to measure how effective those PEDs will be for boxers. Cycling, baseball and even MMA require different physical capabilities and skill-sets from boxing, such that no one can say with scientific certainty that the level of benefits of PEDs seen in those sports will apply in the same manner in boxing. Thus, without a scientific study to investigate the effect of PEDs among boxers, all claims are nothing more than conjectures, suppositions, extrapolations, circumstantial evidence, and anecdotes.

I'm not denying that PEDS won't benefit boxers. My question actually is not on PEDS. I'm simply asking how effective is using HGH two weeks before the fight. I can't believe how many times i have to repeat myself to get a simple answer for a simple question! As I mentioned earlier, there is no scientifically accurate answer to your question for the simple fact that there has never been a study conducted on it. It is much easier to just rely on anecdotal evidence and half-assed assumptions like the previous poster.

A fighter signs a fight and then backs out. How is it not him.the media trying to put pressure on Floyd but it ain't going to do nothing but backfire. Once Floyd tax mannys azz It's going to make it even sweeter. Flomos are still delusional that Floyd will ever fight Pacquiao. Go and eat some Krispy Kreme and a lobster dinner with your idol! :trink26:

That's all i'm saying...........yet just a few posts ago you wanted to argue this point just like every other MP fan on this site. Why is it so hard to admit Floyd has a bigger PPV audience in the market that matters?? But that wasn't what we were arguing about. :pat: Quote: Originally Posted by check hook View Post Please STFU. The overwhelming majority do not pay to see floyd lose.....they pay to see him win. Dude, floyd said so himself. Google it. Also, you flomos were touting Maynever's role as a villain as the key to his PPV performance. Now you're eating your own words. Who's the mental midget now?

but that just shows what one special fighter that is one in a million for the pillipines can do.he is a special fighter that comes in a lifetime.i talk about mexico as a whole vs pillipines as a whole and that is what matters and like that mexico>>>>>pilipines.i rather have great boxers all the time then one great boxer every 50 years because i will be able to enjoy boxing all my life unlike you guys who only adore pinoys and after he is gone you will have to turn to another sport while i will still be here enjoying this great sport. Dude, we've been enjoying the sport of boxing since the 1920s. When the Philippines was still an American colony and Filipinos could easily get fights in the US, we had our share of greatness as well (Pancho Villa and Ceferino Garcia are the most well-known). But you are right. In terms of sheer number of champions, Mexico is far, far ahead of the Phils. But didn't Mexicans also adore past Mexican champions? Why would you criticize Pinoys for adoring their own countryman as well? Can't you just let us have our moment with Pacquiao while it lasts without turning everything into a country vs. country pissing contest?

He also said MP is on PED's. In your mind is that right?? He said he appreciates his haters and that if more people are paying to see him lose than win he is ok with it. How about you use your brain and realise the near 1 million followers on twitter aren't there because they hate him and want to see him lose. You are basically saying the majority of Floy'd PPV numbers are made up of MP fans wanting to see him lose........funny how more tune in to see Floyd lose than to watch Manny win.:thumbsdow Again you are a mental midget........now fuk off. :bsflag: Unlike you flomos, I can distinguish when floyd is telling what he feels to be the truth and when he is just simply blowing smoke up his fans' ass. Also, your reading comprehension sucks. I never said that MP fans tune in to see him lose. But the fans of his opponents did buy the PPVs to see him lose. LOL at Twitter followers! It's like when you drive by an accident on the road and everyone slows down to take a look...

what happened in the first two fight is, pac knocked down marquez, then JMM outboxed pac And still got a draw and a loss. :bottle:

Can you imagine the mass suicides in the Philippines that will take place once Floyd schools this guy? Can you imagine the mass ejaculations among flomos if Maynever ever finds the balls to fight this guy?