Fair enough
I totally see JCC's POV. He sees Cotto and Mayweather making more money than before as a FA. He thinks he has the name value to bring in more cash. More power to him - the longetivity for a fighter at the upper levels in short normally - so I want him and all boxers to make as much as possible.
For the others - I just see no reason to villify Arum for making a business decision. If him and other promoters were in the business of letting fighters bank 3M and then walk away - nobody would be in business.
You won't really give up, will you?
Why are you just reaching? What's leading you to assume ***8211; or reach your conclusion. ***8211; that JCCJ is not worth 3 million against GGG, anyways? Shouldn't a fan be happy that a fighter tries to get the most he/she can?
In most cases during negotiations, you get what you can negotiate, not what you deserve, my man.
P34c3
Some weird folks on here are more interested in Pacquiao's political career than his boxing career...yet those minute number of posters will claim they're fans of the sport? SMH.
P34c3
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who use gloves without padding?? is it Maidana or pac?? as i recall all of their's glove were approved by boxing comission, there are no scandal about maidana or pac gloves.
Floyd wear special gloves made for his brittle hands and insist his opponent wear them too.
You're being economical with the truth or your recall. What actually happened was that the commission agreed with Floyd that the pair of gloves initially presented for use by Maidana, had no padding in it, therefore the commission ruled it illegal and rejected it, as Floyd did. So, Team Maidana indeed tried to cheat - or cheated, just like Maidana's coach, Garcia, was blatantly urging Maidana to repeatedly throw illegal punches during the fight itself. I never heard a trainer/coach be that brazen before.
You can refer though, to the second pair of gloves that Maidana later presented to use. The commission then approved this second pair, which Mayweather objected to. If I were Mayweather, I would have been equally suspicious of anything Maidana proposed to use at that point. Sh1t happens.
P34c3
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So are you saying that Pac is a liar? He said that he agreed to split, gloves, testing.
In other words it must be something else that has created the stall.
We know Bob is a liar. Even if you trust Pac 101%, have you yourself considered that Pac could possibly have been regurgitating lies told to him by Arum?
Goes both ways, mehn...no one is definitely innocent, at least as far as one can see.
P34c3
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IDK how Pac can agree to all your terms and then you say it's Arum fault. PAC HAS TO SIGN OFF ON ANYTHING ARUM DOES. So if Pac agrees Arum agrees. I am so close to being done with TMT.
What is the "all your terms" that Arum agreed to? And who said those are indeed Floyd's terms?
Why are guys so easily sold by the normally self-centered Arum?
P34c3
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Canelo is Oscar's big fish who will allow Oscar's company to survive and Canelo wants those dates so Oscar has to at least try to keep his man happy.
He has little control over Floyd but that is still a big fight so it is something they want to do also.
Oscar knows it is not going to go like that and he is probably hoping that getting Cotto will be enough for Canelo this time. Next time who knows Canelo seems pretty adamant about this stuff and it is Oscar's job to keep him happy.
Oscar is probably also secretly hoping that Cotto demands the fight be in June in New York, so he can negotiate off that date as part of that deal to get out of that needless conflict.
This ^^^ is a well-reasoned post, and I totally agree with it.
P34c3
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your whole argument is false..it's based on your own distorted view of boxing being a floyd vs pac fight.. let me clarify something for you...floyd has lineal titles in 4 weight classes and 5 wbc titles ( most in history).
floyd had a legacy before pac came on the scene in 2008. floyd's legacy is to retire undefeated winning 6 titles (5 lineal) in 6 weight classes the first fighter to win titles from 130-160 undefeated against legit champions at the weight. that carries far more wight than a pac fight since pac has no legacy at 147-154 or 160.
pac is not competing against the best right now cotto is so floyd should jump on this chance to solidify his legacy with a fight against cotto who is also a legit 4 weight world champion himself.
the pac hype train is over..pac is fighting rios, algeri, and vargas he is finished as a fighter at the weight classes floyd competes at.
^^^A very solid post. Thanks for articulating the issues so well.
P34c3
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I'll pay to watch Mayweather vs. Cotto II, it'll be a little bogus if it's at 155lbs and for the WBC Middleweight Championship but I'd still watch it. Cotto has to listen, and it just gives him further leverage against Canelo in their negotiations and I'm sure MA yweather knows that as well.
Even if it's Mayweather vs. Khan, it'll still happen on Cinco de Mayo. They just put Leo Santa Cruz vs. Abner Mares as the co-feature and it should sell.
Good thinking, this^^^.
P34c3
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If Pacquiao-Margarito didn't make you stop watching boxing for a period time (and that was 100x worse), I doubt this will, my friend.
Well said.
P34c3
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Bob Arum does not have an single reason for not making this fight at this point in time.
The luster disappeared from Manny when he got knocked out by Marquez.
Maybe 5 years ago he didn't want to risk an embarrassing loss to Floyd. At this point he sees Floyd is slipping a bit and Manny is almost finished anyway.
This fight makes him tons of cash...the guy is a businessman, he knows when to cash out on someone..he wouldn't have a 50 year career as a successful promoter if he didn't know how to play the game folks.
So why is Arum aggressively blocking the fight from happening on May 2 - a date/holiday Mayweather penciled down a long time ago - and has traditionally fought on consecutively for the last three years or so - and to which Pacquiao himself has already agreed?
This situation is also eerily similar to the following: When Mayweather was sentenced and it appeared he would not be able to fight Pacquiao, Arum said Pacquiao would go ahead take up that May date and fight. But as soon as Mayweather a few days later got a postponement of the commencement of his jail time to enable him fight on that day in May, Arum backed off that date and said Pacquiao's injury would take longer (making it about six months in total) to heal!
Mehn, it's difficult to defend Arum.
P34c3
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May 2, Pac not getting anywhere near $40M and it should be ONLY in Showtime PPV... and more to come... That May 2 date, yeah, blame it to Arum but the rest, anyone with common sense knows its Floyd.
Don't know how you define common sense. Who says the terms put out there by Floyd (or Arum, for that matter,) cannot be negotiated?
P34c3
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Im just looking for confirmation, links, sources. Not spreading lies, rumors, etc.
How about starting by disclosing/pointing to the thread on which you read about it? That would be a source.
P34c3
As I write this:
The Pacquiao-Bradley thread has 789 posts in 132,307 views, a ratio of 1 post for every 168 views.
On the other hand, the Mayweather-Maidana thread has 604 posts in just 29,940 views, a ratio of 1 post in just every 37 views!
Morals of this statistics: Participants on the Mayweather-Maidana thread make posts 4.5 times more posts than participants on the Pacquiao-Bradley thread.
This, to me, means that the Mayweather-Maidana thread is more vibrant, and arguably much more interesting, compared to the Pacquiao-Bradley thread this far.
Does it also mean that participants on the Mayweather-Maidana thread are more more intellectually alive/aware compared to the generality of the participants on the Pacquiao-Bradley thread this far? I wouldn't know.
P34c3
he is not boring at all, I dont understand how any true boxing fan can find his style boring tbh? the amount of skills and athleticism the man has is just unreal. I really really like him in the ring, its the **** he does outside the ring that pisses me off.
Very well said Pac_tard ... my opinion exactly... and, thank you for putting it so eloquently.
P34c3
The only fight out of those 3 that gets any credit from me is the Punisher. Kirkland was being forced to fight injured & Ortiz never deserved the fight.:sad6:
I hope you've not been hiding under a rock, because it was later revealed that Kirkland was NOT injured, he just feigned it because he wanted more money.
GBP should just offer Kirkland more money, and we have a legit fight. That's one of the best options I see for now, short of Mayweather agreeing to fight him on Sept 15.
P34c3
So Kirkland didn't get injured again? I missed that. When will he be fit enough to fight? Why not just wait out another month or so for Kirkland. Oh but I forgot the rival child promoters need to get one over the other
Correct, NO chance in hell GBP would agree to give up on that date and venue, nor should they.
P34c3
He was injured in Molina fight and fresh after surgery. Only him injuring his shoulder AGAIN was not really true(reportedly).
Thanks for clarifying; I should have used the expression "NOT under injury," instead of "NOT injured," in my own statement.
P34c3
well as a fan, who wants to watch a mismatch? why fight guys you are far superior to? why not move on to the next challenge?
mayweather vs guerrero isnt credible if you ask me. mayweather vs ortiz isnt credible. mayweather vs khan isnt credible.
klitschko vs Pianeta isnt credible, mormeck etc etc
So, by your way of reasoning, if the 160-pound division were to be currently weak also, you'd simply look for a credible threat for Mayweather to fight at 168? And, if not, you move on up still?
Gottcha.
P34c3
Years ago - I've been writing and editing outside of boxing/sports for a while now - the editorial staff and many of the writers felt that Manny represented boxing as a 'fighting' elite champion more totally than Floyd did... thus, the 'natural' leaning was certainly toward Manny... Mayweather was seen as a genius in the ring, but not the best face for boxing, a manipulative figure with the business of the sport to a large extent... Pacquiao was seen - relatively speaking - as a more up front, populist figure...
Regardless of whether or not that was an accurate representation/consensus, that 'feeling' and 'preception' was held by a LOT of important boxing writers and editors across the WEB and print journalism... Manny was seen as an 'authentic' ring warrior and fighting champion, in the traditional sense AND Floyd was seen as a ring genius, given to parcing out 'title' fights as leveraged business deals, tailoring his elite career...
Both were considered absolutely GREAT fighters across the board by writers and editors... and effectively the top pairing in terms of ring accomplishment and financial magnitude... however, the resentment Mayweather's personality, public behaviour, tendancy toward ludenss and criminality certainly influenced most in the writing/editing trade, TO ONE DEGREE OR ANOTHER...
For what ever his particular faults, Pacquiao - by strict comparison - was an almost unimpeachable figure/champion...
AND ONES character, reputation and public dealing DO influence people, as objectively as they may try to adjudicate otherwise...
Mayweather, though in my mind the greater fighter, was not the champion nor the man nor the figure to represent boxing as the Fighter of the Decade
(2000-2009) by that measuring...
Patrick Kehoe
This is a honest, well reasoned, and balanced post.
P34c3
Maybe Pac should demand a clause in the contract for their next fight that states that Marquez cannot train for the fight within 30 days of the fight and must inform Pac of the days that he does train, just as he insisted on knowing the days that he would be drug tested by Mayweather and refused to take a test within 30 days of the fight. That way, Pac could easily avenge his knockout loss.
LOL, that's an appropriate response, and also properly sarcastic.
But, seriously, I wouldn't know what it is with these die-hard Pacquiao apologists such as the OP. Their shoulda, coulda, woulda line of self denial, makes them seem like imbeciles, or of way self-overrated intelligence, or both. It's truly a pity one has to deal with these effectively 14-year olds on forums.
I end up having to hold myself from having to dislike their idol on account of them. Hmm.
P34c3
I too have noticed a change in Floyd. He genuinely seems more humble now. Although more boring. I miss the old Floyd lol. But I didnt like the old one...And I dont like the new one any better. I guess I just dont like Floyd idn maybe something about his personality rubs me the wrong way.
Oh I just figured it out. Its his superiorority complex. The dude is incapable of doing anything that would make himself look inferior to someone. It is near disgusting to the degree he is. He has no humility and is not self-deprivating at all. It he would atleast try to balance it out by making fun of himself every once in awhile and not taking himself so serious, but he doesnt do that.
Floyd could win fans over if he could just make fun of himself a little bit.
^^^This tallies with my thoughts, so I quite agree with it.
P34c3
Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android
I didn't compare who they both fought to see who is better. No matter what you post you know floyd is better. Anyone manny fights whether it be jmm, bradley, rios, alvarado etc would be seen as a cherrypick for floyd. You and other posters have actually written that rios is a dangerous fight for manny. Is there any jww or ww that you feel is dangerous for floyd? No.
Right now floyd would have to fight a mw champ to be less than a 2-1 favorite. That speaks volumes. You are entitled to your opinion as am I. But the evidence is clear.
If manny handled the ped thing in 09 like he did with the rios fight there would be no discussion. The only people who question whose better are diehard manny fans like yourself because you've ridden with him so long and so hard your pride won't allow you to admit it.
Floyd simply works harder on his craft and it shows.
Great post. Thanks. P34c3
I didn't compare who they both fought to see who is better. No matter what you post you know floyd is better. Anyone manny fights whether it be jmm, bradley, rios, alvarado etc would be seen as a cherrypick for floyd. You and other posters have actually written that rios is a dangerous fight for manny. Is there any jww or ww that you feel is dangerous for floyd? No.
Right now floyd would have to fight a mw champ to be less than a 2-1 favorite. That speaks volumes. You are entitled to your opinion as am I. But the evidence is clear.
If manny handled the ped thing in 09 like he did with the rios fight there would be no discussion. The only people who question whose better are diehard manny fans like yourself because you've ridden with him so long and so hard your pride won't allow you to admit it.
Floyd simply works harder on his craft and it shows.
Great post, thanks.
P34c3
I don't like catchweights at all but once you say you'll fight someone at a catchweight, you're stuck. When Dawson called Ward out and said he'll fight him at 168, he has to stand by it. Canelo called Floyd out and he actually said 150 so Floyd being the biggest star in the sport made him stay true to his word. Is Floyd a hypocrite? of course but if someone off offers to sell you a house for $100, 000 but you can really afford to pay $110, 000, are you still going to pay $110, 000? I don't think so.
This is one of the more accurate posts over this issue on this forum.
And the analogy? Brilliant. Thanks.
P34c3
I don't believe the 147 offer. Floyd knew for a fact that would NEVER happen. Big Floyd maybe wanted 147 but I've yet to hear that from ANYONE in Floyd's camp other than Sr (who has never been at part of negotiations of any floyd fight) or from anyone from Golden Boy. I repeat I don't like catchweights but if I'm the smaller man and the bigger guy says he would fight me at a lower weight in the past, I'm making him standby that. Lastly, just because a fight is at a catchweight doesn't mean EVERY larger fighter is drained !!!! Weight cuts affects everyone different. I wish the fight was at the full 154 so there could be zero excuses.
This, ^^^, is a very good post.
P34c3
Although I don't like the catchweight, I honestly don't even care anymore. The fight is happening and i'm happy. Can't wait for September 14th. People act like Floyd has never contradicted himself before or shown that he's a hypocrite
That's the spirit, mehn ; makes one live longer. ;-)
P34c3
Not a *****, but i think a lot of people here don't really understand how negotiation works. You don't just come straight out and say what you want, you make an offer, receive a counter offer and then keep negotiating until a compromise is reached.
I severely doubt that Floyd thought that Canelo would ever come down to 147, or even 150. So 152 is seen is an acceptable compromise. I don't really see the criticism of the catchweights here, Mayweather is a massive star with a massive ego. It's a good fight that people want to see made.
Mayweather isn't even going to weigh 152, so why shouldn't his opponent weigh the same?
It's not much of a sacrifice for Canelo to make, if he's busting his ass to make 154 then maybe he shouldn't be in this division. It probably weakens him a little, but it's all part of the mindgames before a big fight. If Canelo was as bothered by some of the fools on this forum by the 2lbs, then there would be no point him getting into the ring....he'd have already lost
.....but the whole "I want him to be as comfortable as possible" "miguel Cotto has never truly lost" is pretty funny tbh :lol:
I'm in full agreement with this^^^ post, and couldn't have put it any better myself.
P34c3
100% FALSE
FLOYD wanted 147, and then 150. they negotiated at 152.
Golden Boy wanted the fight at 154, Floyd wanted 147. stop spreading misinformation you fucking flomo
Floyd never requested for 147 against Canelo, it was his Dad - Floyd Snr. - flying a kite unauthorized, without him ever being a promoter, without him making the offer to anyone (just like Roach was fond of doing for Pac,) and GBP promptly dismissed that misadventure / misdemeanor by Floyd Snr. So you're the blatant liar spreading misinformation, blinded by hate. SMH.
In any case, it was Canelo that originally called out Floyd, saying he would fight Floyd at 150. Should Floyd have accepted now? Probably not, but Floyd has consistently demonstrated that he is a businessman first and foremost, so no surprise he'll chose to follow the path of least resistance to money if offered. Technically, you can't knock a man for that.
Canelo made his bed, so shall he lie on it. In fact, he's lucky he's getting away with 152. Deal with it.
P34c3
Does anybody know how much the fine would be for every pound over the catch weight?
Also does that mean floyd also has to come in at 152lbs or can he get away with being below that weight?
Big Dun is correct. Plus, 152 is that agreed maximum either fighter can weigh in at. Which means either man can weigh in at anything below and up to that.
P34c3
you know what else is reality???
Cherrypicker said he wants the guys that he fights to be at their most comfortable weight
... And Canelo previously called out Floyd @ 150...and is now saying - emphatically - that he's comfortable fighting Floyd @ 152, as negotiated. So what, exactly, is your problem?
Why are you being holier than the Pope? Why don't you just be reasonable with your mind so you stand a better chance of living a healthier - and longer - life in this world, assuming you so desire? Why don't you just let go, and prepare to enjoy what you enjoy?
P34c3