BTW, to the gentleman infering that Billy Conn was a blown up Lightweight and Chris Byrd was a much bigger Light Heavyweight. Might be important to note that Conn started his pro career when he was just under 17 years old. When Byrd was the same age, he was competing in the amateurs at Light Welterweight and a few years later competed in the Olympics at Middleweight. So in reality, Conn & Byrd are naturally about the same size and have the same physical dimensions.
There are no "A-Level" guys at Heavyweight. From top to bottom. Regardless of the recent excitement factor that everybody's enjoying in the division, the guys at Heavyweight today are not as skilled & talented or comparable in a p4p sense to most of the top fighters in the lower weight classes, and it's been that way for about 15 years now.
Sadly, Ortiz was the only guy in recent memory that had a "p4p" like skillset.
The reason why he is not showing signs is because is he is getting regular shots in his shoulder (the same shots he was denied by NSAC) u idiot.
You mean shots like xylocaine? Which according to pac stans prior to may 3rd 2015, is the equivalent to using PEDs. :thinking:
And are you implying he was using xylocaine at the time of this workout? You do realize xylocaine usage wouldn't have been permitted at the time of this workout?
Probably has something to do with there being roughly 100x more Mexicans in the Americas than Panamanians.
But Duran is easily the greater fighter of the two without any dispute. And would destroy Chavez H2H.
And i can't speak on Latin American opinion...but in the states, Duran is generally held in much higher regard by most boxing fans both casual & hardcore. Outside of probably mex-americans.
He had 50% of his normal output. Have you ever watched him fight before? Evenbefore the injury was revealed, everyone was saying that something was off. This really isn't that hard to figure out.
Even before this fight it's already been proven that that you can significantly lower Pac's output with the threat of right hand counters and/or by sticking a jab in his face as well as by using lateral movement...both Bradley & Marquez employed these steps and lowered Pac's output substantially in their fights...Mayweather is levels above both Marquez and Bradley and it showed. Pac's uncharacteristically low output had everything to do with the man infront of him, which was leaps and bounds the best opponent he's ever faced. There was no injury. The result of the fight had more to do with the stark gap in skills between the two. Pac is just not on Mayweather's level and it showed.
Come on man. Lowering Pac's output is one thing. But he threw less than Maidana in the rematch where Floyd 'ran' and clinched even more than he did this past Saturday. Obviously something was off with Pac.
He ate like 2,000 right hands from Marquez but always threw and threw and threw, even when Marquez's counters and movements cut down his normal output. Didn't seem like anything Floyd threw at him hurt enough to stymie him. Manny said as much after the fight.
Just couldn't let his hands go like he wanted outside of spurts here and there.
In all of the Marquez fights (the ones that went the distance) Pac's workrate was waaaay below his average. Especially the 3rd fight. As it was in both Bradley fights. I guess his rotator cuff blew out on him in all of those fights as well? :lol1:
Both Bradley & Marquez took certain steps that led to the lowering of Pac's punch output. Bradley mainly with his jab & lateral movement. Marquez with his right hand counters and some lateral movement (specifically in the 3rd fight) Floyd with his speed, reach, footwork, timing, elusiveness etc. allowed him to take what Bradley & Marquez did to a whole 'nother level. The lopsided outcome of the fight was due to a gulf in class between the two. Nothing more, nothing less. Pac is just not capable of competing at Floyd's level. Stylistically, Floyd is just all wrong for lil buddy.
Since when has Pacquiao ever thrown crisp NON-SLOPPY straight right hands? :thinking:
His right hand is usually used to set up his left...or used to throw hooks.
Moot point anyway because THERE WAS NO SERIOUS INJURY (at least one that took place pre-fight)
And we have irrefutable visual proof as well as Pacquiao's own signature stating such.
Should've been a wide pts win for Chambers.
This is a good example of what it looks like when you have a serious arm/shoulder injury in the ring...you're not gonna be able to punch with it at all, or even lift it.
because jcc was the P4P best for most of his career
Duran lost to guys like Kirkland Laing and to robbie sims, how do you call yourself one of the greatest of all time when you were really a top contender in every division apart from lightweight. Apart from the lightweight division where Duran ruled JCC was by far the more dominant champion.
Duran also had a padded record at lightweight.
Duran- 103 wins 16 loses
JCC- 107 wins 6 loses
Yes...let's just pretend that Chavez didn't get gift decisions against the likes of Juan Laporte and Frankie Randall :lol1:
And how could possibly compare the route both took as it pertains to their "p4p" status and rulership over their respective divisions? You think Chavez could move up to Welterweight/Junior Middleweight/Middle and compete with the likes of Leonard, Hagler & Hearns and rule those divisions? :thinking: The idea of Chavez stepping in the ring with any of those men sounds asinine let alone even having a competitive fight with either of them. But Duran did it. And keep in mind, Chavez & Duran are naturally the exact same size and have the exact same physical dimensions (identical height & reach) and started out at about the same weight. Chavez wouldn't have dominated or ruled diddlyfuk if he took Duran's route...he woulda been a stepping stone/gatekeeper type of fighter. :lol1:
When a past prime, blown up Welter in Cotto was able to easily destroy one of GGG's career best wins...that proved how bad this Middleweight field is that he's been facing this past few years.
He has nothing but B & C level fighters on the top end of his resume...nothing close to resembling a hall of famer or all-time great on his resume...so i don't know how people can consider him one.
If he beats Canelo, it'll be the 1st time he's beaten someone above B-Level...and full credit to him if he does. Then you can call him a "great" fighter.
Soviets/Cubans treated amateur boxing back then as if it were pro boxing. most of their boxers were in their 20's and in their prime and well seasoned with 100's of amateur fights... And still were getting the shit beat out of em by teenagers from the U.S. who were using the amateurs as a means of development for the pro game...or at least the Soviets/Eastern Euro's were. The Cubans would go tit for tit with the U.S. and dominate in stretchs in the Heavyweight division...Cuba is the only country/region you can really make the what is they were able to turn pro earlier hypothethical argument for...but even then it's kinda stupid...
Mayweather
Pac
Rigo
Ward
Wlad
In about that order
Although i can see Bradley in the top 5 in place of Wlad based on quality of opposition faced and beaten.
Canelo & Froch are on the fringes of the top 5.
And GGG doesn't even deserve to be in the discussion as of right now. He's not even top 10 in my book.
Wlad hopefully...i miss the sight of seeing him flopping all over the canvas every other fight :lol1::lol1::lol1:
Fury would make a nice highlight reel KO as well though
There's either one champ per division or NONE at all. And i don't give a shit what a alphabet soup org has to say about it.
Unless you fulfill the historical & traditional criteria of A/THE champ...you're a glorified contender sporting an alphabet soup trinket.
Only one champ in the Heavyweight division and it ain't Wilder.
Irregardless...
Wilder destroys 'the champ' in 2-3 rds if K2 ever lets that fight happen.
He'll get in off the gimmick of being boxing's 1st tag team Heavyweight champion of the world.
But based solely off the merit of his resume? No. He doesn't deserve to be in.
But he surely isn't alone in that regard...
Depends on how you define "ducking".
But none of the fab 4 were all too keen on facing him...or Julian Jackson, Sambu Kalambay & Michael Nunn for that matter...all would've made much better & viable opponents than alot of the stiffs that the fab 4 were facing during the mid-to-late 80's.
Pacquiao
2 relatively dominant wins over top 10 fighters in his division in the past year.
One was the #2 ranked fighter in his dvision (Bradley).
That win over Bradley can be considered the single best win of any top fighter as far as quality of opponent + margin of victory over the past year.
Bradley is arguably on the same level as some of guys in this thread being named p4p #1...and Pacquiao beat him with relative ease.
that is horsesheet. trillions were poured into the ghettos where all is paid for rent phones utilities food air conditioners . people in the hood with $300 sneakers warm up suits gold teeth and chains. over there no money for anything. not even close.
Trillions? LMAO! In the 70's/80's/90's it was the norm to not have air conditioning, lights, running water and other basic ammenities in inner city neighborhoods. And whoever has $300 dollar sneakers and the like, are probably engaged in extracurricular black market activities in these neighborhoods...stuff like that isn't the norm at all. You can find a subculture in just about any semi-3rd world nation, like Russia, Mexico, Brazil etc. where there are folks that utilize the black market to buy nice things...that says nothing about the standard quality of life in these places.
Americans don't have no idea what it's like growing up like this. That childhood can make you mentally ****ed up. And you don't know what will happen tommorrow. I've seen all these American movies, everybody got cars and all that, they just can't relate to this
I know what he went through, because it was 90's and that period of time couldn't be worse. **** 90's, everything was completely ****ed up at that time
There are plenty of Americans that grew up similarly bad if not worse conditions...particularly ones grew up in inner cities in the 70's/80's/90's. Even today...some parts of inner cities are literal low level warzones.
The Brownsville, New York that Mike Tyson & Riddick Bowe grew up in was hell on earth.
This is not atypical of how alot of boxers came up. GGG and his brother used to pick strangers at random to beat up and rob when he was growing up. Pacquiao was a common thief and drug addict before he got into boxing...i always laugh at boxing fans who create this idealistic image in their head of guys who dole out brain damage to other human beings for a paycheck :lol1:
Boxing is a sport which has both historically & contemporarily, attracted folks from the lower end of the socio-economic strata, people that had no other outlets in life but the fight game...when you come from the type of enviroments that alot of these guys come from, where there aren't alot of resources, infrastructure, basic ammenities and economic oppurtunities...enviroments like these foster a savage, cutthroat, dog-eat-dog approach to life in order to sustain yourself ...this is the makeup of a large majority of participants in the fight game...
Like Larry Holmes once said...in order to step in that ring in participate in a sport like boxing, and actually be good at it...you have to be fuk'd up in the head at some level.
Well the difference is that in the former Soviet bloc it was whole cities not neighborhoods that where in that condition.
There was no racial aspect to it, it was class and money based and touched everyone.
I already agreed that poverty was more widespread over there and touched the average person in a way that the average american wouldn't understand. Case in point, Nacho Daddy's comment which asserted that the average person in the "ghetto" has $300 sneakers and gold chains :lol1:
They don't even have an understanding of how the "poor" in their own country live.
There's environments like that everywhere, in every country, my point is average American don't know how messed up that life can be. In Russia, average Russian who grew up in 90's in some small city know how foul that period of time was. That's the difference
I agree with this.
The average American can't even empathize or relate to how folks have to live in their own inner cities.
The avg Russian probably understands and has the ability to empathize with "struggle" than the avg American for sure.