seriously he could have fought anyone and made money. i think oscar should be looked at differently, he fought that fight knowing he was not as strong especially after seeing what hopkins did to trinidad.
i'm not saying it makes him any greater but he doesnt need to be called gay or anything. anyone fighting hopkins when they didnt have to or expected to is a man.
I think he had various reasons: the cash, maybe he wanted to sign Bernard in the GBP eccetera.
The real reason I think it was the fact that DLH did fight always the best and I also think that he was thinking about himself as done in the SW division beating Vargas and Mosley II (yeah he defeated Mosley II).
He had big balls even if that fight was a clear mistake. I like to remember that he had a competitive fight until the KO, he was clearly doing better than Tito and Joppy did, for example.
Threads like this always miss the point that ducking is never one directional.
it's easy to open a thread screaming that Jones duck this one and that one but none is interested in the opposite side (Jones was feared, maybe someone ducked him).
This 3d is not even that interesting because I find hard to understand why Jones fought the number 1 SMW of that time and ATG James Toney and not Graciano Rocchigiani :-O.
I always find discussions on Jones' record very hard to understand. I always read something like "Jones beat Hopkins, but Hopkins was green" (lol) / Jones ducked this & that / Jones beat McCallum but McCallum was old / Jones beat Hill who is overrated and so on.
According to these arguments I could say that
1) Bernard Hopkins is a dirty fighter and always beat smaller guys
2) Hagler wins are a not middleweight glass chin Hearns and a lightweight Duran and got his ass whooped by a former welterweight Leonard
3) Carlos Monzon is a pure idiot
and so on.
That's why I don't like this kind of 3d. They are not realistic and I could dismantle every fighter in the world (even Ali screaming that he cheated against Cooper, lost 3x against Norton and blablabla). I dunno like this kind of things, mostly because I have no idea why Jones ducked Rocchigiani or Rocchigiani ducked Jones and I am deeply sure that the 98,45435% of people in this forum doesen't even know that Rocchigiani in german boxer and not a bra brand.
I do know that Roy Jones vacated his LHW title with Michael Nunn being his number 1 challenger and after vacating his title, briefly contemplated a move up to the heavyweight division and returned back to 175 lbs.
He was then given the title back by the WBC despite Rocchigiani having won the vacant title during the time Jones spent talking about how he was going to fight Tyson, Holyfield or Rahman, with none of those fights actually happening.
Rocchigiani sued WBC and got millions for it.Jones didn't vacate anything he has never won the vacant WBC belt.
I don't know the story you're telling me but I trust you.
Let me ask you 2 questions about Nunn and Rocchiagiani.
I live in Europe and in this forum the 98% of the boxer from Europe are eurobums. Why Rocchiaggiani now is the new "oh-my-god-Jones-ducked-him"? Rocchiagiani is no better then Zsolt Erdei, come on. If you want to choose someone tough just choose Henry Maske or Darius impossible-surname.
Michael Nunn was the number 1 contender. At 36. Now tell me why McCallum in Jones' record was shot and Nunn was the ducked
Roy Jones vacated his WBC LHW title after the second Montell Griffin bout where he had won it. It took him almost a year to contemplate the decision to move up to heavyweights, and he decided to come back down to fight Virgil Hill in a non-title bout at a catchweight of 177 pounds. WBC then decided to give Jones his title back and Rocchigiani was left without a title even though he had beaten Michael Nunn for the vacant title.
Sure Rocchigiani wasn't great but he deserved to keep his title belt which he had won legit. Instead it was stripped off of him in favour of Jones who had already vacated the title.
I don't understand what's the problem. Roy fought Hill, a tough fight at the time. I am pretty sure that he wasn't involved in the Rocchigiani problem.
This discussion is not realistic IMO. If I wish i fight that didn't happen I would say "Roy - Darius". And we are discussing about graciano. Come on :wtf:
I think it's been the decision of the WBC... I mean, from 15 round to 12 anfter che Kim Mancini fight. that decision saved many lifes imo.
From pure boxing I could remind the entire Gerry Cooney - Larry Holmes story (white hope-biggest LV bout ever-dead people 'cause of the fight-racism), the Meldrick Taylor - Chavez bout (it's in early 1990, mh...), Arguello - Pryor I&II (black bottle included), Hagler vs everyone, Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson.
Malignaggi - Hatton is a great example. Hatton has great tecnique in a body-going forward fight but he does not how to go backwards. Malignaggi is a better technician, but...
Marquez Pacquiao II could be an example too. We all know that Marquez is better in boxing tecnique but he does not the power to knock the pacman down, witch mattered in that fight.
Judah lost to Baldomir and Tszyu.
David Haye could have a possibility against Vitaly fighting slik & smart but I think Dr. Steelhammer could knock him out.
Eddie Chambers is the only one with a decent tecnique but I am not sure he has the power to get toe to toe with Vitaly (but with his Winky defense could go to the distance, not that easy against Steelhamer uh).
I would pick prime Lewis, Holmes, Ali, Tyson and Foreman against him. Not sure Frazier, Dempsey and Liston beating him.
I pick Trinidad beacause he had more power and was more impressive in his prime, he was just a black tank that was destroying everybody (almost).
Tito had problem with technical fighter and Cotto is not one of them.
Simple question, is DLH the most robbed fighter in the history of boxing? I mean the fights with Tito, Shane, and even FLOYD. Has anyone been screwed by the judges more times than Oscar himself?
Oscar - Whitaker: could have gone either way.
Oscar - Ike: Close but Oscar won by 114-112.
Oscar - Tito: Close fight but it was pretty much obvious that Oscar won.
Oscar - Shane 1: Oscar lost.
Oscar - Shane 2: Ah! Oscar won 116-112 against a fighter on roids.
Oscar - Sturm: Oscar lost but it wasn't that monster robbery... O_o
oscar - Floyd: quite close but Floyd deserved the decision.
IMO Oscar gave away Floyd fight without throwing his jab which was way dangerous and gave an excuse against Trinidad dancing to much with the main difference that Oscar lost to Floyd and won against Tito.
He won against Shane II, period. No excuses.
Ike e Pernell fights were damn close, Pernell's in particular.
He lost to Sturm, period.
DLH should have entered against BHOP 39-1 IMO.
Not much has changed.
Why is Williams fighting in California anyway?
I don't know but is strange. PWill has beaten margarito and he had a marvellous match against the new middlew. champion of the world. Plus, he was facing a guy with an high KO %. And don't forget that accoring to The Ring Pwill is P4P right now.
Strange.
Overrted: right now is Froch. The guy is a dumb slugger who lost to Dirrell and almost got owned by an unprepared Taylor. I'm not saying is shit, I'm just saying he's a decent titleist. Just not that morvellous "new margarito". Even Darchinyan is here. Everytime he faces a skilled boxer with good chin he loses.
Underrated: Joan Guzman is easily here. Celestino Caballero too.
No, boxing's been around for a long time, surely someone would have came up with the idea that rolling a shoulder could be good about the right shoulder, Ive seen Willie Pep and Locche do this.
Totally right. Locche and Pep were using this technique and also did Walcott. But they did not use it very regulary. In the 70's there is a match between Mayerather Sr and SRL where they both use the shoulder roll.
I think Toney established the s.r. as a technique, especially in the LH and Cruiserweight division but surely Mayweather he's the great master.
I pick Toney using it in the middle of ring and Floyd on the ropes. This technique is very useful to me... you're almost untochable to the body ( -> mexicans owned) but you have to be careful to the straight right hand. In fact the only decent punch that JMM landed on Floyd was a straight righthand when Floyd was on the ropes.
The Vitali vs Kevin Johnson fight has already sold out, 17,000 arena. Pretty amazing, when Johnson isn't even known in Europe.
And in Wlad's last fight, he gets 60 thousand attendance for his fight with Chagaev.
Both sell out every arena they go to in Europe. Heavyweight boxing may not be big in USA, but it's never been better in Europe.
The Klitschko's are so damn big in Europe!
I live in Europe (Milan).
The Klit brothers are very famouse in ukraine, in germany, austria and switzerland. But, for example, German people ove them but they prefer Sturm or Abraham, patriotic stuff.
Bernard has got (a every fighter, including SRR) his strenghts and weakness. Of course he loves fighters as Tito or Pavlik, he can handle them without big problems.
But just look at his loses: he lost to a young one-handed Jones: i truly believe this is Jones greatest win... but remember that bernard gave Jones much more problems then McCallum or Toney did to Roy. He lost to Taylor, but Taylor was a younger skill, big and talented middleweight.. he lost himself after those 2 fights. He will be a big thing in SW: it's not a shame losing 2 fights against someone talented like him (at 40 years old).
He lost to Calzaghe at 43... but he gave Joe lot of problems. A lot. It has been the most difficult fight (included the Reid fight) for Joe. Period.
Summin' up: he lost to 3 tough guys.
He's a legend.
Lew Tendler, Tiger Flowers, Flash Elorde, Dulio Loi, Freddie Miller deserve mentions.
Edit: Khaosai Galaxy as well.
Duilio Loi was not a southpaw. At the time, in Italy thy converted every lefty in righty, just like DLH. Pure lefty were not accepted.
Now, shouldn't this be an important criteria when rating a fighter? Serious question.
I don't think so. Lewis didn't fight any southpaw 'cause southpaw are very rare in the HW division. I think that the first southpaw champions has been Moorer, followed by Sultan Ibragimov in the entire HW history.
I even read some paper sheet about the fact that southpaw are very rare as much as the weight increase. It's true, just think about how many southpaw are in the WW division and think about HW and cruiserweight.
I think Ali never faced a southpaw too.
I think Mosleys gonna win but he needs to be careful. Very careful. He's 38 years old and the key to defeat Berto is the speed, I hope Shane still has got his fast hands.