Phirsole

Thanks for bringing it up again. Yes, I think the HW division is still semi-dead. The main problem is, that boxing is not the mainstream sport anymore. For a multitude of reasons: - big athletes go to football or basketball in the US instead of the gym, - the champion fights appear boring - PPV has discouraged off many poorer watchers - other martial sports (like K1 or wrestling) take some share off the viewers - there are many people who believe a martial carreer is against their faith Here in Germany, most fighters come from poorer families - few "German" boxers have German names. Arthur Abraham and Felix Sturm were not born under these names. Boxing is less and less a sport for the masses. The Klitschkos may be big stars, but even Floyd, Pacquino, or DeLaHoya are almost unknown here. Even the "neighbor superstars" Hatton and Kessler are unknown. Boxing is on a decline. It might come back if there are more poor people who consider a martial carreer a viable choice to get off the street or to get rich.

LL aint dumb enough for a rematch with Vit. You hit the nail on the head. Lewis has more to loose than to gain in this fight, money or not.

Just found this thread. Interesting to read, four years later.

I can't think of a sport that matches the physical demands of boxing, going 12 rounds with only 1minutes rest in between. It's not like a team sport where you can relax and rely on a team member, or even another solo sport where you can take a (physical and mental) breather as you know by doing so you could get seriously hurt.. MMA maybe close but as there is take downs much less rounds it stops the chances of a 12 round warrior type fight. Peak for peak I can't think of another athlete that would be as fit and in such a physical shape as the likes of pacquiao and mayweather.. Your thoughts? There are a few sports more demanding on the endurance side (cycling, triathlon), but all in all a 12-round boxing fight is among the most health-endangering sports event out there (barring accidents). Diving can be very risky, too (apnoe-diving).

Great stuff!!

He's going to milk his belt and the mandatories for as long as he can, and will finally cash out with one of the Klits. I'm afarid this hits the nail on the head. Haye stated more than once he'll not be boxing forever, so I assume he needs as much money as fast as he can. If he is shut down now (which he knows both Ks will), his belt & market value are both gone.

It would be very competetive. Wlad would try to get a boring security jabfest - Wlad would be afraid of those bombs. If Foreman could pressure Wlad enough to break through the jab, Foreman could destroy Wlad. Wlad is a very skilled fighter with enough pop to keep even Big George at bay. But not for 12 rounds. I assume, of ten bouts, about 6-7 would go to Foreman. So I voted for Big George.

The German word "fast" means "almost". No change of nickname needed, IMHO.

People were critical of Lewis and his style in his later years. The opinion of him rose greatly after he retired and people saw the lack of other genuine talent. Likewise when the Klitschkos are gone people are going to see how truly talented they were in the years that follow. +1. I assume they'll leave a huge gap if they retire. But at least the ABC belt fights will be more competitive, then.

There's a difference into how the fights played out, though. One of them was won after clear losing for most of the fight and their opponent not being able to continue due to a fluke injury. The other was after cutting your opponent with a clean punch and starting to win more rounds before the fight was stopped. Big difference. Vitali lost fights twice, but was defeated only once.

I was born in Ukraine, moved to Vancouver, Canada when I was a very young kid. I'm Half Ukrainian/Half Russian. A good reason to root for the Klitschko brothers. No reason to diss their opponents, though. At least Chambers, Arreola, Chagaev, and Peter entered the ring. Not like Valuev or Haye.

I was there for the event. Our tickets were EUR 55,- each. Nominally, it was sold out, but of the top seats, there were some hundred free. I assume there were some 48,000 people watching. A very memorable event.

Haye and Wlad would not put up a street fight - not enough money in there. If forced to fight, I would put my money on Wlad - he is careful enough to avoid an onslaught. To cave in a skull, he needs only a few of his jabs (if not wearing gloves).

Lennox defeated many great fighters AFTER their prime. Their names give him a very impressive resummee. IMHO opinion, LL's win over Vitali is one of his best (legacy-wise), 'cause Vitali was in his prime and dominated for years to come. Wladimir fights many contenders, who had never been defeated, or knocked down, or stopped before. Their names are not as big, 'cause only a hand full of them had big names on their resummee. Wlad takes young hopes apart, before they get the chance to be 'greats'. It's like picking fruit before they have full flavor. He could think about fights with great "has beens" (like Toney, Tua*, or Briggs), but I doubt any of them would be more of a challenge than Chambers. *Tua's left hook was and is a killer, but Wlad knows this - he is far too big and defends his chin pretty well.

I want to see the look on wlads face, when the fight starts, and Haye is bouncing around the ring, coming in and out with lightni ng fast combos that are hurting Wlad, before he can even land a Jab. I wish we could see that. It's been a long time since Wlad had a true challenge. I still think Haye would lose.

News from BILD should be taken with a grain of salt, but their sports news is reliable - usually.

1) Ward (schooled the favorite fighter) 2) Dirrell (great development since Froch fight, but not as good as Ward) 3) Abraham (best puncher, good guard, but has problems with fast guys) 4) Froch (brawls, but is too open; the Dirrell of today would spank him) 5) Kessler (was taken apart by a quick boxer, worse than AA by Dirrell) I cannot rank Green, since I have not seen anything so far. I'd not be surprised, if none of the fighters gets three wins in a row. I think Froch has the hardest fights ahead now - Kessler and AA are both good punchers, and even Froch has only so much chin left for the rest of the year.

Wlad is skilled and athletic But hes no Ali by any stretch of the imagination. Two completely different level of fighters. I'd say different KIND of fighters. Both are/were very good in the ring. Ali was just more dynamic and entertaining, in and out of the ring. The level of domination of the HW division is similar, or even better by the Klitschkos. Even if the HW Top10 behind the Klitschkos is not as good as it was in Ali's time, they rule the division in a way only a hand full of ATGs did before.

Bet Offer Neither do I have 100', nor do I bet larger sums at all. I offer 5,000 on AA over Dirrell, though. Deal?

I was looking forward to seeing how it went. I thought AA scored a legit KD against Dirrell, and was starting to land more regularly, so the last round would have been interesting, IMO. Shame that either man was robbed of a clean win, I'm sure Dirrell is unhappy that he had to win viw DQ. I hope so. I've always thought of Abe as being a decent guy, and have always supported him. I even argue that it was an unintended foul, but when he comes out with this shit... :wtf: Exactly my thoughts. I bet on AA to win via late KO. He KOed, but it was a clear foul. DQ was justified. And he should take the DQ like a man and not try to bring this to court (rematch). And, BN, I don't think AA was "schooled" by Dirrell. Dirrell was better, yes, but not that much better that I'd call the fight a "schooling".

Back in the early 80s we had a "great white hope" in George Cooney. Then in the 90s we had a movie The Great White Hype What kind of hope is Haye for the heavyweight division? Some say after Haye ducked the Klitschkos he's not a hope, he's really just a hype like the dude in the movie. :lol1: If Haye doesn't make a statement and KO the age 38 John Ruiz (who hasn't beat a top 100 heavyeight since 2004), then he's clearly just a hype. GOOD POST. I totally agree. Really? I don't find Haye exciting at all. He ran away for 99% of the fight with Valuev, and failed to KO him. Wlad chased his opponent for most of the fight with Chambers, and then BRUTALLY knocked him out. Wlad is much more exciting than Haye. NOT A GOOD POST. Nobody looks really good vs. Valuev. I think Haye has a dynamic style, trades, and - thanks to his limited chin - brings the kind of excitement, that his opponent could take him down, too. Don't tag "not exciting" to a single fight. Wlad is a great fighter in all regards. But he dominates his opponents that much, that the only excitement comes from "in which round will he win". If he would be forced to fight a really competetive opponent, who brings out Wlad's best (including testing his chin, his guts, and perhaps even brings out his fierce side), THEN the fights would be more exciting. I think Haye is the only fighter who could turn Wlad into a beast in the ring (w/o the aid of Manny Steward between rounds). I think Haye really managed to get under Wlad's skin with his behavior. But Haye would be taken apart by Wlad. And since Haye is a smart guy, he avoids the K brothers in the ring. Sad but true.

Uhh Vitali was dominating byrd, what the hell are people talking about. He got hurt by punching Byrds face too much. I mean are you arguing that Byrd was winning that fight? Or had a chance to win that fight? Did you see what Wlad did to Byrd...twice? According to youtube, he ruptured his shoulder by MISSING Byrd too many times while punching with full strength. Vitali may have won most of the rounds, but a good defense pulled Byrd through to a win. And a prime Ali is NOT known for being a stationary target...

The Klitschkos are something special, 'cause they are a) well trained and don't drop off between fights b) among the largest 10% of the division c) but despite their size they are fast enough to match the speed of smaller boxers - they appear slow, but in reality they are fast enough that they are rarely hit at all d) both developed a fighting style which works for them. Wlad covers his average chin by his jab/holding/leaning back defense, which has not been really been bested since Peter (2005). Vitali seems to lumber in the ring, but despite low hands and his size, he hasn't been really troubled since the Lewis fight (2003). There has not been another boxer since Lewis of a comparable size (6'4''+), who could combine size with speed & power & brains. And the talented guys out there either lack professionalism (Solis, Arreola), skill/speed (Dimitrenko), size (Chambers, Chagaev), heart (Povetkin, Haye), or several (Valuev) to become a true champion.

Looks like the Klitschkos are GREAT at H2H fantasy matchups, simply by their size/power/skill, while they are considered only GOOD if measured by their accomplishments (lack of opposition). That's fine, I think. They make tons of money, beat everybody who dares to enter the ring, and are nice&intelligent characters. Only their fighting style appears to be robotic and boring.

Not exactly. For one, every freaking HW contender seems to be a fat sob, cept for Haye, a cruiserweight and the K bros of course. That on itself is a good indicator. Worse news is we had a clear separation from eras with no handing of the torch per say. The last unified HW champion successfully defended on his way out, against the prime version of the best of this era, Vitali. That's another indicator the division isn't very strong. Of course you can argue a Vitali would win at least 6 out of 10 fights against the 38 year old Lewis, that is probably true but the fact he still lost doesn't help the whole division. Finally, they simply have no game opponents. Every fight looks the same, a target practice featuring 1000 jabs, 10 right hands and when the crowd starts to boo, 1 hook and of course a fat guy. Are Chambers, Chagaev, Gomez, Sosnowski, Adamek or Kevin Johnson fat slobs? I'd agree on Solis, Arreola, Ustinov, and perhaps Peter, but not the whole division.

Props to Ward for winning vs. Green. I could not see the fight (yet), but I intend to do so - even if it was not too exciting (too one-sided). But a 120-108 decision is as lopsided as it gets. The only minor nitpick I have with Ward is - he is fighting mostly at home. I hope he is willing to travel in the future.

That was never getting overturned. AA should've kept his cool and KO'd him in the 12th like he was fittin' to do. My thoughts, exactly. So, there seem to be no news on the petition. Which is a good thing.

After this result I see Ward as a favorite in the Super Six. If Abraham does not catch him off-guard (and flattens him with the Abrahammer), Ward should be able to outbox AA as Dirrell did.

We all know the fight WON'T happen. If it would, Wlad's jab would keep Floyd at bay or send him to the hospital. :stupid: But we are in a fantasy matchup. So, give Floyd his due. In a fantasy matchup, he could somehow gain 60lbs and 6 inches size and reach without losing a microsecond of his speed. THEN he has reasonable chances to outbox any HW, including the Klitschkos. Or, the other way around, if Wlad somehow loses 90 lbs and 5 inches size and reach, without gaining any speed and agility, THEN he is just cannon fodder for Floyd. Hey, it's a fantasy, and as nice as getting a prime Tyson or Ali for a matchup with Wlad, or a prime Oscar de la Hoya or Pacman for a Floyd matchup! :owned2:

For pure height, speed, reach, strength, there is no boxer close to this machine. Unlike ali who lost to puny guys such as cooper and ken norton, wlad would wipe the floor with them. Well, Wlad lost three fights against lesser opponents himself. So, no favor there. Wlad will not be recognized as a GREAT boxer, for as long as he fails to excite the majority of the boxing fans. He might be unbeatable right now, but he simply fails to appear "great" in regards of excitement, and resummee. It's not his fault that he cannot fight any ATG right now. The only boxers who would matter for his resummee are running scared right now (Valuev, Haye, Povetkin), or he cannot fight (Vitali). Nonetheless, I can imagine ten years after his retirement, he will most likely be regarded as ATG, at the level of Lennox, Tyson, or Marciano. On dominance and KO-% alone.