Title Defenses: W. Klitschko 13 Lennox Lewis 12

Does anyone want to heap any additional praise of Lewis for beating David Tua after Tua's awesome performance yesterday?

I'm usually a troll against Floyd though :p I guess I just want to bash the Floyd fans who go overboard, but then I also go overboard :o But thanks bud. You are a good poster and I enjoyed reading and typing. Infact this whole thread is one of my favourites ever. Some very good posts and people gave their honest opinions with well thought out info/data. Yeah Vitali's injuries really dampened his career. An injury free Vitali may even overshadow Lewis's career for me. That's how highly I rate him, although I defend Lewis when people say he got lucky. Yes he was losing, but a boxing match can turn around at any time, for any reason, and if legal, then I feel you can not discredit a win. Excuses about training etc... yes, but not a fair punch and cut. I didn't know about Vitali not going to the Olmypics because of the injury and that Wlad took over his place. I did know he had to use steroids to heal. Now it fits. I'm a Haye fan, and although he is more likely to lose, I will support him. I atleast believe he has the best chance out there for his speed, accuracy and power. The main issue is his size, defence and stamina. It doesn't seem like ti will be enough, but I'm gonna stand by him as a countryman, and a fan of his style. Can't say I like Haye - to much "shit talks" as for my taste. And can't say I was impressed by his performance in fight with Valuev. But I also can't deny - he is clever guy and knows how to build career and advertise himself. If he ever decide to fight with Klitschko jr I hope he'll be able to show his speed and power and make a real threat to Wladimir. Then it would be exciting fight with puncher's chance for David. And let the best man win.

Fair point. It is nice to see reasonable people here. I also prefer Vitali, he is more a fighter than a boxer and a very unusual man. But he often had bad luck - an injury before the Olympics in Atlanta, when instead of him his brother went there, an injury in the fight with Byrd, cut in the fight with Lewis. Wladimir goes by the path to fame, which was well-trodden by Vitaly. I'm usually a troll against Floyd though :p I guess I just want to bash the Floyd fans who go overboard, but then I also go overboard :o But thanks bud. You are a good poster and I enjoyed reading and typing. Infact this whole thread is one of my favourites ever. Some very good posts and people gave their honest opinions with well thought out info/data. Yeah Vitali's injuries really dampened his career. An injury free Vitali may even overshadow Lewis's career for me. That's how highly I rate him, although I defend Lewis when people say he got lucky. Yes he was losing, but a boxing match can turn around at any time, for any reason, and if legal, then I feel you can not discredit a win. Excuses about training etc... yes, but not a fair punch and cut. I didn't know about Vitali not going to the Olmypics because of the injury and that Wlad took over his place. I did know he had to use steroids to heal. Now it fits. I'm a Haye fan, and although he is more likely to lose, I will support him. I atleast believe he has the best chance out there for his speed, accuracy and power. The main issue is his size, defence and stamina. It doesn't seem like ti will be enough, but I'm gonna stand by him as a countryman, and a fan of his style.

Wlad's issue was apparently his stamina. Big guys get tired quickly, and Vitali, Ali and some old names were great guys with great work ethics and gentics. Obviously when any fighter is tired, they become easier to hit. I think the camp knows that and thus Steward repeated to get the KO, you are not tired. Wlad would look great if he went all out, but then you also get caught, tired etc and lose. Katsidis is a little beast, powerful guy and was beating Casamyor from pillar to post. Yet even leading on the scorecards in my eyes, he went all out and got countered and lost. Steward is a very good trainer, technically and he is smart. He knows how to beat peoplea nd the game plan for Wlad and his ability right now makes him the top guy at HW, although I personally think it is Vitali, even now. Yes Wlad didn't allow them to show what they had, he's a big guy with good technical ability, however I don't think they are great as him in most areas that would allow them to get close. We may recognise the names on Wlad's resume now because I guess it's an era where we can look guys up and see mroe fights, but the names on Lennox's resume for me, are much harder to go through, especially if you look at the age and people he fought. Some of them went out blazing, and I feel would have hurt and maybe TKO'd Wlad in his younger days. The guys I see now, for example Potvekin has no chance against Wlad. Too small, slow and not powerful enough. I also feel someone like Arreola, although slow, has a better chance VS Wlad than Povetkin. Remember styles makes fights, and Arreola had no chance to KO vitali, while he has a small chance VS Wlad. The fight selection of Wlad now is done really well. Fair point. It is nice to see reasonable people here. I also prefer Vitali, he is more a fighter than a boxer and a very unusual man. But he often had bad luck - an injury before the Olympics in Atlanta, when instead of him his brother went there, an injury in the fight with Byrd, cut in the fight with Lewis. Wladimir goes by the path to fame, which was well-trodden by Vitaly.

I see your point, and you may be right in this. But I'm not so sure that the "guys that Wlad is facing now don't have the size, speed or power to hurt him and make him work to punch". So far I can presuppose that Wlad didn't allowed them to show speed or power - he neutralized their strengths and played on their weaknesses. Not to mention he fought guys as big as he is. So we can only speculate on this and give favor to one boxer above other basing on our preferences. But to tell truth I'd wouldn't mind to see more aggressive Wladimir. Wlad's issue was apparently his stamina. Big guys get tired quickly, and Vitali, Ali and some old names were great guys with great work ethics and gentics. Obviously when any fighter is tired, they become easier to hit. I think the camp knows that and thus Steward repeated to get the KO, you are not tired. Wlad would look great if he went all out, but then you also get caught, tired etc and lose. Katsidis is a little beast, powerful guy and was beating Casamyor from pillar to post. Yet even leading on the scorecards in my eyes, he went all out and got countered and lost. Steward is a very good trainer, technically and he is smart. He knows how to beat peoplea nd the game plan for Wlad and his ability right now makes him the top guy at HW, although I personally think it is Vitali, even now. Yes Wlad didn't allow them to show what they had, he's a big guy with good technical ability, however I don't think they are great as him in most areas that would allow them to get close. We may recognise the names on Wlad's resume now because I guess it's an era where we can look guys up and see mroe fights, but the names on Lennox's resume for me, are much harder to go through, especially if you look at the age and people he fought. Some of them went out blazing, and I feel would have hurt and maybe TKO'd Wlad in his younger days. The guys I see now, for example Potvekin has no chance against Wlad. Too small, slow and not powerful enough. I also feel someone like Arreola, although slow, has a better chance VS Wlad than Povetkin. Remember styles makes fights, and Arreola had no chance to KO vitali, while he has a small chance VS Wlad. The fight selection of Wlad now is done really well.

That may be so, but Wlad fighting big, fast powerful guys most likely would have struggled while Lewis was able to handle the big guys who were 6 foot 3 upwards. Wlad tends to hold back under pressure and when he does, he's not as good to me as when Lewis is under pressure. How strong or fast you are in trainin does not always equate to how well you do in a ring when there's someone hitting you back. I may be wrong but I feel Lewis deals with guys better who are fast and athletic as him while maybe Wlad wouldn't. For example I pretty much feel a prime Lewis defeats Vitali while a prime Wlad does not. The guys that Wlad is facing now don't have the size, speed or power to hurt him and make him work to punch. ATM he can sit on his punches. Someone like Lewis and Vitali would make him work for it. The thing that Wlad for me is better is always coming in shape. The ebst way to win a fight is to prepare well, and Wlad is the ebst at that in the HW division for me. I see your point, and you may be right in this. But I'm not so sure that the "guys that Wlad is facing now don't have the size, speed or power to hurt him and make him work to punch". So far I can presuppose that Wlad didn't allowed them to show speed or power - he neutralized their strengths and played on their weaknesses. Not to mention he fought guys as big as he is. So we can only speculate on this and give favor to one boxer above other basing on our preferences. But to tell truth I'd wouldn't mind to see more aggressive Wladimir.

Even Stewart, who trained both - Wladimir and Lennox - said that Klitschko is more talented and harder punching boxer than Lewis. So why argue? And, besides, Wladimir's list is more impressive than Lennox's imo. That may be so, but Wlad fighting big, fast powerful guys most likely would have struggled while Lewis was able to handle the big guys who were 6 foot 3 upwards. Wlad tends to hold back under pressure and when he does, he's not as good to me as when Lewis is under pressure. How strong or fast you are in trainin does not always equate to how well you do in a ring when there's someone hitting you back. I may be wrong but I feel Lewis deals with guys better who are fast and athletic as him while maybe Wlad wouldn't. For example I pretty much feel a prime Lewis defeats Vitali while a prime Wlad does not. The guys that Wlad is facing now don't have the size, speed or power to hurt him and make him work to punch. ATM he can sit on his punches. Someone like Lewis and Vitali would make him work for it. The thing that Wlad for me is better is always coming in shape. The ebst way to win a fight is to prepare well, and Wlad is the ebst at that in the HW division for me.

Even Stewart, who trained both - Wladimir and Lennox - said that Klitschko is more talented and harder punching boxer than Lewis. So why argue? And, besides, Wladimir's list is more impressive than Lennox's imo.

In my opinion he lost. Get over it. It's my opinion. I'm entitled to it. I don't care what the official books say. Just like Byrd lost to Vitali. Had the fight been closer I could rationalize your thoughts but I watched the fight which is probably more that you have. Probably a sore thought for you as it appears. Here's the link if you want to actually see it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDot0rbYSfo Notice that Lennox lost almost every exchange? How about the condition of his face as well? Swollen more than I had ever seen it. Think what you want to think, but deep down you know he lost the fight and would have officially too had the fight continued. GIFT WIN> LIKE IT OR NOT. Firstly Lennox may have come back. He has done it in the past Secondly you don't win a gift when you punch and cut someone Vitali was in prime and Lewis was not.

you think a Prime Holyfield loses to a Prime Wlad? :?!: wow I do. holy would have all kinds of problems with the long hard jab of wlads and wlad would just tie holyfield up on the inside and not let him work. wlad is damn good since manny took him over

You said in your opinion, Lewis lost the fight. He was losing 4-2 on the cards. Handily? LOL He won the fight because he pummelled Vitali's face so hard, it caused one of the worst cuts in boxing history. Hardly the face of a man that was "handily" winning a fight. lol,,,it doesnt take a hard punch to open a cut. in fact its usually grazing shots that open you up. lewis won fair and square but he was fortunate that he had the tougher skin because it didnt look like he was going to win that fight without that nasty cut

I don't think so at all. Wlad has a far superior defense at this stage than Lennox did and make no mistake about it, Wlad has a better jab and more punching power. Lennox's dodgy chin could see him go to sleep on Wlad's hard, straight, fast right hand. Good fight and I think it's a toss up with both men at their best. Note* Vitali clowned the champ Lennox on ten days notice. I agree. wlads hands are also faster than lewis's were and I could see him landing something big first

When it's all said and done, Lennox will be considered the greater fighter. What makes a fighter great though? I am one of the people who think Lewis and Klitschko would easily beat a much smaller Joe Louis, yet I don't consider them "greater" fighters. Yet you cannot also define greatness strictly on benchmark accomplishments. For instance Klitschko and Lewis are both much more accomplished fighting as champions than George Foreman was. Foreman only defended a Heavyweight Title 3 times in his career. I am of the opinion that the young George would go through either Klitschko or Lewis like they were Swiss Cheese. When it's all said and done I think Lewis and Klitschko will be right next to each other in the all time heavyweight rankings. Defining greatness is a very subjective matter. There are people on here who would rank Floyd as top-10 p4p all time, others would put him in the 40's. That's why I wanted to limit this mostly to a discussion of resumes and how Klitschko's is slowly getting to the point where his dominance needs to be recognized in a historical context.

When it's all said and done, Lennox will be considered the greater fighter.

Lewis' defenses were better, yes, but not night and day better as a collection. See I agree. The question is at what point (if ever)will Wlad get credit for having the better resume? Even with the people who believe Lewis is better and are willing to admit that it isn't great I get the impression that no matter what Wlad does they will always say Lewis' was "a little better". If Wlad wins 7 or 8 more times he will have over 60 career victories and 55+ KO's to go with more title wins and a title reign spanning 8 years. He might be the only heavyweight in history who could say that all of those things are true.

The question was compatibilie. Two different topics Mr "Ali and Joe Louis ducked European fighter's ". Are you still seriously not grasping the fact that Eastern European and Russian fighters couldn't fight professionally during Ali's and Louis' time? The guy was lining up those opponents based on caliber, proving that there really wasn't the difference in the quality of opponents that people are claiming (10 times.) Lewis' defenses were better, yes, but not night and day better as a collection.

I'd argue that he didn't need the WBO because no one cared about the WBO. Yes but who recognizes the likes of Michael Bentt, Henry Akinwande or Herbie Hide as heavyweight title holders? No one. They weren't paper champions, they weren't really champions at all. Is IBO title holder Sakio Bika a world champion? Will his IBO title reign suddenly become recognized as legit if in the future IBO becomes a recognized world title? Not for me. I believe the champion makes the belt, nevermind the history of beltholders and their overall average quality. True the WBO Belt had a questionable lineage but at the point where the lineage went Vitali-Byrd-Wlad I think it has established a caliber of champion that it hasn't returned to since. Taking this into consideration Wlad began both reigns with wins over a deserving champion whereas Lewis both began under dubious circumstances over mediocre fighters.

what does that say about Wlad's list........lol Lewis fought fighters with a pulse........ No he didn't. He fought past their prime fighters when they had heart problems and weed addictions.

I don't know if anyone has made a remark about this but last night with his victory over Chambers Wladimir has eclipsed the career total defenses of Lennox Lewis. Lewis' Defenses: Frank Bruno Phil Jackson Henry Akinwande Andre Golota Shanno Briggs Zeljko Mavrovic Holyfield Francois Botha Michael Grant David Tua Mike Tyson Vitali Klitschko Klitschko Defenses: Derrick Jefferson Charles Shufford Francois Botha Ray Mercer Jameel McCline Calvin Brock Ray Austin Lamon Breswster Sultan Ibragimov Tony Thompson Ruslan Chagaev Hasim Rahman Eddie Chambers I would say that Wlad has 6-8 fights left in him which could bring his career total over 20 titles defenses and put him in very select company. I believe only Holmes and Louis had as many as 20 in the Heavyweight Division. Looking at Lewis' list it isn't very impressive, especially considering the high regard he is held in today. His biggest and most impressive win is arguably Vitali Klitschko, a guy who most Lewis supporters consider to be highly overrated. what does that say about Wlad's list........lol Lewis fought fighters with a pulse........

Dunno about stopping Tua TBH. Holyfield has been stopped, but TBH I have no doubt that Wlad's jab and right would be evaded by Holyfield. Wlad is very strong, but hOLYFIELD IS JUST A VERY TALENTED AND TECHNICAL FIGHTER THAT when he was on his A gAME, he would slip punches etc. I give Wlad full credit for coming in shape, working very hard and never really being complacent, but in the ring, Wlad has had very boring rounds. I think that Wlad is just too relaxed to go for the KO straight away, even more so than Lewis for me. I'm not saying Wlad would have certainly done better, just that Lewis wasn't very impressive in any of those fights and Klitschko would have easily won decision over all those guys as well. Wlad would look much better against guys who were willing to come forward doing nothing like Tua. If you put a washed up Tyson in front of him and let him unload for 8 rounds maybe people would wake up and smell the coffee.