There are overrated fighters today (PBF) as well as the past (Sweet Pea). No era has a preponderance (if you will) of overrated fighters. I have a general bias for fighters of the past for one reason only - the KO is (was) more of a urgency to them. Too many of today's fighters are willing to leave their fate in the hands of the judges and then bitch that they were robbed.
I know you are trying to make a point, but...
My god, Lennox Lewis is much too god to take criticism of that nature.It's only an opinion, not an exact science...
With 5 career losses Margarito has managed to hold alphabet titles in 1 division his entire career. He has no real amateur accomplishments. He has already been defeated by 1 of the other titleholders in the division. He is already 30 years old. But some would have us believe that he has had a greater career than future Hall of Famers like Oscar, Floyd, or even Joe Calzaghe & Roy Jones.
Is he the most overrated boxer in history. Guys like David Reid, Edison Miranda, Tommy Morrison were overrated but I think Margarito just might take 1st place.Actually, I thought he was underrated. But that aside, he is definately not the most overrated boxer in history - that distinction belongs to your avatar - Lennox Lewis... :cool:
That is one of the worst, if not the worst list I ever seen.
Jesus CHrist your list sucks.Tell you what, post your list and I'll be more than happy to declare it the best list I've ever seen...
Everybody talks of him as being one of the greatest but I think he was/is overrated. His best win was, what, Spinks? who wasn't a true HW to begin with and was at the end of his career. He beat Holmes, but Holmes was way past his prime. Sure he looked good KOing 2nd rate or past their prime fighters, but every time he fought 1st rate opponents he lost(Holyfield, Lewis) and even Douglas exposed him.
He was a controversial figure and a product of the Don King hype machine but i don't think he would make top 15 or even 20 on my list.We obviously and vehemently disagree...
Louis
Ali
Tyson
Holmes
Marciano
Johnson
Foreman
Frazier
Liston
Dempsey
BTW, this topic is better located in/at the Boxing History forum :)
I hope he can pull Durán, Gael looks kind of girlish.If I were casting for the film, my pick for the title role would be John Leguizamo.*
*If you don't know what he looks like, image-Google his name.
I'm sure there's some but I'm at a loss to think of them off the top of my head.
Not legit injuries. I'm talking about someone who hasn't taken any real damage, isn't gasping for breath, isn't significantly slowing, hurt, or injured.
Who else has just said, "Hey bro, I gotta head out now" because he was losing?You must be very young not to have heard about the "No Más" debacle. It was the single-most scandalous "quit" in the history of the sport when ATG Roberto Durán quit vs Sugar Ray Leonard.
Off Topic
i'm 53 and was a young adult during the beginning of ray leonards rayne.The last word in the above quotation is either a clever play on words (Leonard's first name) or a gross misspelling of the word "reign." Which is it?
Roberto Duran, Larry Holmes, Oscar de la Hoya, Pernell Whitaker, Bernard Hopkins, Juan Manuel Marquez, Thomas Hearns, Marvin Hagler.Pernell Whitaker?! Sweet Pea's philosophical approach to boxing is incongruous to that group. It's sort of like sayin' "my favorite actors are Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Charles Bronson and Pee Wee Herman..."
i know the rules, i'm saying some of the article made it sound like it was an essay stating the case for duran being a hofer, and trying to push for him to be inducted. that's something you do for guys like gatti, who don't necessarily deserve it but you may want him to get in.
it was obvious that duran would get in as soon as he was eligible.I see. Well, maybe the thread-starter was so blown-away by Durán's resumé, he wanted to share his enthusiasm...
Roberto "Hands of Stone" Duran will be a first round ballot into The International Boxing Hall Of Fame.Had you read at least one key post on this thread before posting yourself, you would have known that your prediction had already come to pass last June. ;)
what was the point of this?
duran being a HOFer was a given and he made it on first ballot.Here is (was) the point: -> At the time of the thread-starter's post (11-17-06), Duran had yet to be inducted into the INTERNATIONAL Boxing Hall of Fame (although he was already enshrined into the World BHOF). A mere three weeks after the initial post (12-7-06), the IBHOF announced the 2007 class of inductees - Roberto Durán, Ricardo Lopez and Pernell Whitaker. The three fighters were officially inducted into the IBHOF on 6-7-07.
In most sports (incl. boxing), a prospective inductee must be retired for 5 years before being eligible for the Hall of Fame. In Duran's case, he retired in 2001 and didn't qualify until 2006.
Get it?
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The Dominance Of Roberto Duran And Why He Should Be In The I.B.H.O.F.
Roberto Duran is already enshrined in the World Boxing Hall Of Fame. He is on the ballot for induction into the International Boxing Hall Of Fame in 2007. In reviewing his record I was absolutely amazed at what he had accomplished. This is a man who turned pro in 1968 and had his last fight in 2001 ! He competed in five decades.
There is more to the Duran story, much more. His first major win was in 1970 when he stopped future featherweight champion Ernesto Marcel. Interesting note, Marcel's last fight was in 1974 when he outpointed the great Alexis Arguello in defense of his featherweight title.
Duran impressed the boxing world on September 13, 1971 when he destroyed Benny Huertas in one round. Later that year he knocked out former junior lightweight champion, Hiroshi Kobayashi. On June 26, 1972, the undefeated Duran halted the formidable Ken Buchanan to win the world's lightweight title. The reign of terror had begun.
Duran's last title defense was in 1978. During that stretch Roberto only lost one fight, a non title decision to the superb Esteban DeJesus. He would later stop Esteban twice in subsequent title fight rematches. In all Roberto made twelve successful defenses of his title. An often overlooked fact though is that during his tenure as lightweight champion, he also had 22 non title bouts. I guess Duran's handler's, the legendary pair of Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown felt the best way to keep Roberto in shape was to keep him busy. Some of those non title affairs were against stiff competition. Future junior welterweight titleholder Saoul Mamby, Edwin Viruet who later challenge Roberto for the crown. Hector Matta, Doc McClendon, Javier Ayala...These men were no walk in the park opposition.
After Roberto abdicated his lightweight title in 1978 he would box for 23 years in higher weight classes. He would win titles at welterweight, junior middleweight and middleweight. He completely skipped over the junior welterweight division. From 1978 until his last bout in 2001 he met twelve world champions. Although his combined record against these champions was 6-11 you must understand he was fighting well above his natural weight.
In all Roberto had 119 fights. He won 103 of them, 70 by knockout. Now that's impressive. Does he belong in the Hall Of Fame ? Now that's a no brainer.Yours is one of the more compelling arguments ever made on the merits of the panamanian's HOF credentials. Even so, you are - in essence - preachin' to the converted, as Duran's staunchest detractors unanimously agree that he belongs in boxing's enshrinement.
Worth adding to the sentence I highlighted in your post with bold red print is the fact that eleven of those twelve succesful defenses were by KO! - the main reason his tenure as champion in that division was often referred to as a "reign of terror."
Thrilla in Manila
Sony said most of the stuff already but just to add, Ali collapsed at the end of the fight and had to be brought to the hospital. Frazier still went to the post-fight party and even sang a few songs.To say that Ali "collapsed" is a tad misleading. As soon as Frazier's corner threw in the towel, Ali was mobbed by jubilant supporters, at which point he deliberately dropped to the canvas to avoid being smothered. Ali explained this himself in the same "close-to-death" post-fight interview.
It's a matter of routine for fighters to go to the hospital for a check-up following brutal fights, so that part is quite plausible.
The last time it was great to be a heavyweight boxing fan was when Mike Tyson was in his prime. It was also a great time to be a boxing fan during the primes of Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes.
Any more questions? :boxing:
...Joe Louis never lost a fight in his prime, between ages 24 and 35 inclusive. Muhammed Ali officially lost 2 to Frazier and Norton, at ages 29 and 31 (and perhaps should have lost another 2 or 3 close decisions that were given to him).During Louis' active reign and domination, they coined the frase "bum of the month club" in reference to his efficient disposition of all opponents matched against him. It reminds me of a movie executive taking auditions and dismissing those who fail to qualify by hollerin' "next."
In fairness to, and in defense of Ali, it could be argued that he was robbed of his prime by his three-year unjust layoff.
...Duran In my book is 1 notch below Leonard, and that is how I see it..Both top 10..and to the fella that says Duran is among boxing elite, and leonard isnt...Hmmmm Leonard is universaly accepted as generally at top 10-20 fighter. I think when you have million plus fighters to ever lace up gloves.....hmmm that places them both in the elite status....Dont you?You have written more words on this forum detracting from the legend of Roberto Durán than Christian Giudice wrote in his book Hands of Stone about him, which (contrary to your claim) is not an AUTObiography.
I am that "fella" who said that Duran is among boxing's elite (top 10) and Leonard isn't. Your anti-Durán obsession will never alter that fact. Get a life!
I could be wrong here but didn't Louis beat more hall of famers and more former champions then any other heavyweight ?
Ali's still better .That may be true, but in my view, the most impressive stat attributed to Louis is the 25 consecutive succesful defenses of his title, which accounted for the longest reign of a heavyweight champion.
During Ali's prime, I too got caught-up in the idea of him being "The Greatest", but as I've grown older, my objectivity has blossomed and today I rate "The Brown Bomber" #1, based solely on his accomplishment(s) inside the ring.
Don't get me wrong, in many respects - not the least of which is his stature as a sports icon - Muhammad Ali is and always will be The Greatest. Just not as a fighter.
Duran beat Ray..and lost twice...quitting..Not he could should of would he quit..and also got his ass handed to him repeatedly...REPEATEDLY,,whenvever he stepped up against the big dogs.
Facts my friends..and also Duran Resume is full of 0-3 type of fighters.....Fact my friend.You again?! Duran's 1-2 record against Leonard doesn't matter. In the grand scheme of things, Sugar Ray Leonard is a boxing icon, Roberto Durán is a boxing legend.
Here's a general team sport analogy: It doesn't matter if a team loses the season series against a given rival, as long as it wins the world championship. Conversely, it doesn't matter that Duran lost the trilogy against leonard, as long as he is ranked among boxing's elite, unlike Leonard.
Think Big Picture
http://www.pugilistica.com/Feb_July_2005/BoxingIllFeb1984RobertoDuran.JPG
The caption on the bottom of the magazine cover says it all...
Top 5
aw fuck it, let this thread die already.Yes, but not before I have the last word (at least to this point):
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. (Best #4# my :moon: !!!)
Roy Jones, Jr.
Lennox Lewis (The two-punch kid)*
Rocky Marciano
Ronald "Winky" Wright
*Pawing right jab to set-up right cross. Rarely threw hooks or uppercuts.
My absolute best is Luis Angel Firpo's "Wild Bull of the Pampas."
Other great nicknames:
Brown Bomber (Joe Louis)
Toy Bulldog (Mickey Walker)
Manassa Mauler (Jack Dempsey)
Brockton Blockbuster (Rocky Marciano)
Galveston Giant (Jack Johnson)Conspicuous by it's absence is popular favorite "Hands of Stone" which gets loss in translation from Manos de Piedra (spanish).
My absolute worst is Pernell Whitaker's "Sweet Pea" more suitable for a wimp.
Other worst nicknames:
Quiet Man (John Ruiz)Note: I'll add to the worse list later; gotta go to work now.
You can't get much better than "the greatest"That was not a nickname, it was Muhammad Ali's opinion of himself. Ali never really had a nickname, unless you count "The Louisville Lip" as he was dubbed while he was still Cassius Clay. Far from flattering, he was also called "Gaseous Cassius," both nicknames stemming from his propensity for braggadocio.
 
This is pretty good, but for a better quality video of the same fight (Incl. dramatic 7th-round knockdown, blow by blow and color commentary), click on the blue text in my signature below.
duran was an atg....now just imagine how much greater he would have been if he had some discipline outside the ring and with the fork.Quite true. That lack of discipline is best manifested in the way Durán looks today (see my signature) and the way he looked between fights before retiring in 2001. On the positive side, however, the controlled fury of Roberto Durán is best exemplified by the video link in blue text below...