If catchweights are crucial in making the fight happen then I dont really have a problem with it. There 1 time it was clearly garabge though was when they gave Pac the light middleweight title even though he didnt weigh in within the weight category of 147-154. Yet they still gave him the title. His opponent was worthy having come off a 1 sided beatdown from Mosley and he wasnt allowed to weigh above 150. The whole thing was just a joke to make Pacs record look more impressive in history. Made me think that if he weighed 144 and won the light middle title, might they give him a middleweight title in the furure or a light heavyweight title but he can weigh in at 144 or whatever he likes. The opponet can just be any washe dup bum who is weight drained and coming off a loss. Without that his achievements would be more credible but when you look further into it you see its all politics.
he's clearly not feather fisted
Thats what I thought. Mitchel stands up to the punches of Prescot and Murray but gets blown away in 4 by Burns who's "featherfisted" Doesnt make sense does it. I think people just look at records rather than recent form which is a better guideline.
yeah totally agree m8 its terrible he should leave but av got a feeling warren is gonna play the"who was loyal to kev when he had his problems"**** goto matchroom best thing he could do.
No doubt Frank will give his side of the story in his section in the sun. He takes advantage of being given that privilege because he is supposed to update the readers weekly with general boxing news but just uses it as a place to get things off his chest and insult fighters that he hasnt got or who have left him.
Whatever he uses as his excuse for Kev it wont be a valid one because Mitchel fought the fight he contractually agreed to and was a gentleman throughout. He was completely professional from start to finish so Frank should be too and pay up.
i remember how he sucker punched pacquiao from a clinch during their 2nd fight
Yeah I remember that too. He did afew things like that throughout his career and its what made him such a likeable character. He realises its over now but he started in 1989 and his physical prime was really in the 90's but most notable wins came in the naughties. His rivals were were ususally younger than him and nobody else started in the 80's. I think Marquez is a similar age but he didnt have any big fights until afew years ago. Whilst Barrera was dominating in the 90's Pac was being destroyed by bums and Erik had hardly started.
Then when the big 3 started meeting each other Marquez was losing to the likes of Chris John and Feddie Norwood so he dint have the wars that would have aged him with his cautious style back then. Its since 2008 he started fighting with more aggression and thats why he still has plenty left at his age.
Yeah I saw Kevs facebook status saying summat similar. Its a travesty if he hasnt got paid yet. He went to the lions den and put on a bravce effort. He suffered a KO loss so should be paid for his nights work.
If Warren doesnt address the issue soon I guess its another guy to jump ship and join the hearn bandwagon at sky sports.
edit: NM just found the youtube of the sucker punch at presser.
Did it make you lol? Barrera was such a character. Did so many cool things like that and ramming Hameds head against the corner post etc. He had a hot head at times.
Still think that that 2003 win is the best on Pacquiaos record. Dont think he has eclipsed that yet and probably wont
Pac has no shot against a strong and fast Marquez
Marquez has never been fast. His feet are too slow so he relies on timing. He certainly wont be as fast as Pac allebit a slower Pac these days.
The last fight looke dlike two guys past their best unwilling or unable to take take chances and we satisfied to let it go to the cards after 12 rounds of mostly feinting.
Lets hope their mindsets change for this fight otherwise we are in for the same kind of fight
Anyone can do what they want with p4p lists because they are opinion based and theres no official list. Its all someones take on it. People have Bradley below Pac despite beating him so you can make it up as you go along.
Out of these two whos better? IMO its Marquez because I think he won the 1st 3 fights but if I had to rank them Id place Pac higher cuz he officially won and has the better wins outside of their rivalry.
Hope we get closure in December insteda of another close 12 rounder
Gotta go with Mckenzie in this one.
I met Enzo and he is a nice chap so I hope he wins but Ovill is a dangerous puncher. gnore his record. For eth 1st few years he didnt take the game serious but once he won prizefighter he seemed to get a new lease of life and now he is putting guys away and has a menace about him.
Enzo may be able to keep it long for a couple rounds and does have the power himself to make it interesting but I fear for him in the exchanges. If I had to make a prediction it would be Mckenzie by devastating KO in 4 rounds.
Everyones going on about how ripped Marquez is but it didnt help Bradley vs Pac and he isnt 40. It also didnt help Marquez last time, he still boxed overly cautiously and he was well built then
Marquez' recent form
Fedchenko - Awful fight to watch and did nothing for JMM
Pacquiao - Dull affair
Katsidis - Good fight to watch but Marquez was on the floor and didnt look great
Diaz 2 - Not as good as the first but a convincing points win
Casamayor - Close fight but Casa was past it
Diaz 1 - Diaz was coming off a loss to Nate campbell and hurt Marquez early but got worn down
Juarez - Cuts and Juarez general lack of boxing ability made this one pretty dull
Barrera - Marco was at the end of his career in this one clearly past his best but still outlanded Marquez and put him down aswel. Lederman had Barrera winning and so did I. Marquez lucky to get a win here.
Pacs recent form
Bradley - Pac looked past it. Cant fight at pace and got outboxed late on
JMM - Both guys looked slosw and unable to pull the trigger
Mosley - Pac begining to look in decline and Mosley so far past it it that it meant nothing
Margarito - Catchweight and Marg coming off savage beating from Shane made it through 12 but wasnt really competative
Clottey - Boring 12 rounder. Clottey just put his hands up and Pac had no clue how to get past his guard
Cotto - Pac was at his best here but Cotto was at a catchweight and hadnt long ben destroyed by Marg at the full 147 lb limit
Hatton - Great win by Manny, took him 2 rounds to do something it took Floytd 10 to do. Hatton hasnt fought since and looked on the slide against Lazcano didnt expect it to be so quick though.
Based on that theres not much between them but I lean towards Pac p4p even though head to head I lean towards Marquez
Adam,
So his schooling from Floyd wasnt a legit loss? Youre obviously a deluded fanboy if thats your opinion.
Tell me what was Marquez' biggest win. Im waiting . . . . . .
And I'd say stopping a 300+ pound giant in Ustinov indicates he has some punching power
Did he stop him in the end? I remember watching that fight but cant remember how it ended. He was just boxing rings round Ustinov who was too slow and wide open.
Pulevs Ko record doesnt look great but he's shown he can break a big mans heart which will be useful in the heavyweight division.
I'd have him above Price at the moment because he has had better wins. Price' bets win so far was against Audley and thats not gonna set teh world on fire. I doubt a win over an ancient Skelton does much for his rep either.
Surprised nobody on this thread has picked Fury. Maybe like me everyone realises he has no hope once he steps up in class.
Yeah Pulev looked a good heavyweight last time I saw him. I think he could beat Povetkin now for the WBA title.
Lets see if Helenuis can get back up there cuz he used to look good when he opened up. I have no faith in Seth Mitchel ever doing anything.
It would be interesting if Wach pulled off the upset this weekend. With Vitalis decline that would really make the division wide open.
Corrie Sanders in his prime may have finished Vitali off. He was a 40 year old when they met and he still had Vitali hurt and down in the 1st round. The bell saved Klitschko.
Vitali is a great fighter but stylewise a speedster power puncher like prime Corrie may have been his kryptonite. Lucky he got him when he was past it but prime for prime I wouldnt be surprised if Corrie used his quick hands to catch Vitali on the way out like he did to his brother, follow up and finish the job. Vitali has to fight a his own pace and couldnt deal with that pressure menatlly or physically which was why he was so gassed after going 8 rounds with a 40 year old.
Cheers Wvladimir. I think I remember it know. He had a bloody nose and never really got into the fight did he.
Pulev did a similar job to Dimitrenko. It looked like an even fight going in but I think Dimitrenko gave up mentally and the finish was similar in that one too.
Im struggling to understand why some people think Marquez wins a potential tournaments hands down when he is almost 40 and never won a super fight in his life.
Good fighter and might start as favourite if it did happen but whats his best win? He's been beat by Norwood and John, dominated by Floyd and failed to beat Pac after 3 attempts. His best win on paper was probably over a washed up Barrera where he got outlanded and dropped so I dont see why the guy has a rep for being so formidabble.
He is a top light welter but I dont see him being that far ahead of the rest.
I see this fourth fight as a little pointless and a little sad, age will be a major factor, JMM has given his last big performance IMO. It will be a damn shame if JMM gets KO'ed and the record bookings read as 3-0(1KO) with 1 draw, that really doesn't do JMM any justice at all!
Exactly. Whats the point in this fight cuz even if Marquez wins he is still 2-1 down and if Pac wins it will be by dodgy decision again so in the bigger scheme of things this outcome doesnt mean much. Pacs already coming off a loss and has looked pretty poor in recent years. You have to go back to the Cotto fight since he looked good. Marquez has a warm up inbetween Pac fights and hasnt beaten any good himself in a while.
Pointless fight.
Puga,
p4p list are all fictional anyway. Martinez and Donaire are my two favourites at the moment but Id have Sergio higher just based on his form which has been sizzling lately. Donaire has class in abundance but before the fight with Nishioka he went through a dull spell where he said he was bored in fights. Im sure this will change though because as Martinez approaches the final chapter in his career, Donaire is improving and still to achieve his greatness in years to come. I wouldnt put up an argument against anyone whos sees it the other way though
In regards to Pac, theres no doubt that when he was a freak of nature with endless reserves of energy he would rank higher on the list but over the last few years since the Cotto fight he hasnt stopped anyone it looks like he cant fight at pace or sustain attacks anymore. He is having a bad spell in his career and I think he will probably have another unconvincing performance with Marquez in December. So Im kinda pre empting his demise by putting him at 5. I think his decline will show over his next couple of fights and 2013 will be his last year cuz he doesnt need the money. Just a shame he never got the Floyd fight around 2008 where he stood his best chance
What is your top 5?
1st one was most entertaining although the 3rd had its moments.
Bowe hit Evander with several low blows in that 3rd fight an it led to the action being fought at a much slower pace. It never really caught fire until Evander dropped Bowe in the 6th. Karma caught up with Bowe in his next two fights.
Riddick said Evander was alot stronger in the 3rd fight and even though Bowe won the battle I think he lost the war because he was done after that whereas Holyfield went on to have a great career.
Wards fights from super 6 onwards
Kessler - Wards only half decent win beofre this was Miranda and that somehow qualified him for a shot at the world title in his hometown. This fight is still the most controversial of his career IMO. He was allowed to get away with headbutts that ultimatley got teh fight stopped and gave Ward the win.
Green - Wward won every second of every round and all I can remeber was Green being pinned against teh ropes being wrestled in an ugly fight. Not pretty but convincing from Ward
Abraham - Surprisingly competative for the first few rounds until Wards extra skills came into play. It was an impressive win over a dangerman who's lack of boxing ability had already been exposed in super 6.
Bika- While everyone else in super 6 was struggling on the road Dre got another fight at home and even if he lost was still in the finals. Close fight for 6 rounds until Ward pulled away. May have made it harder on himself than it needed to be
Froch - Great boxing by Ward. This is the night he really announced himself. There was no headbutting or ugly wrestling just pure skill. Scorecards were close but Wward put on a masterclass.
Dawson - Severely weight drained and everyone in the world knew it would be a farce apart from Dawson. Nice win on paper but people in the know wodnt put too much emphasis on that fight.
So after that run of fights I rate Ward highly p4p. Maybe not number 1 but top 3
1.Mayweather - Needs a good win though because Martinez is hot on his trail and has looked more impressive recently. Its only his long unbeaten run that puts him here
2.Martinez - Number 1 or two its debatable. I think he'd beat Floyd but p4p based on careers, Floyds record might just edge it
3.Donaire - Donaire and Wward are just outside the top 2 but closing in
4.Ward - Like it or not he is going to be around for a while staying unbeaten so weve gotta get use to it. If anything he will be going up in the p4p rankings beofre he comes down
5.Pac - Lucky to scrape 5th cuz he is coming off a loss ( 2 if you count the Marquez fight ) and hasnt stopped anyone in ages. Wvaldimir close to replacing him.
Puga,
No I'd put Martinez infront of him but not Pac. Pac hasnt looked good in years. Donaire is defo not far behind infact Id have him at around 4. Its debatable if Ward is better than Donaire p4p so you could probably convince me otherwise on that as Donaire for me is fighter of the year.
Either way I'd have Ward top 5 at the least. He is in the mix with those guys - Floyd ( whos starting to slip IMO with inactivity and no impressive wins ) Martinez - Really on fire at the moment and Donaire who looks back to is best.
Where would you rank Ward p4p?
I know triangle theorys dont work in boxing but if Khan destroyed Judah and then in turn got destroyed by Garcia how has Judah even got this chance. Over 10 years ago he got blown away by Tszyu and its been downhill ever since.
Danny has got an easy night if this comes off. I can see him timing a left hook counter and either putting him to sleep or making him to the Judah dance.