He is definately top 20 and he might sneak into my top ten list.
Lacy wasn't all he was cracked up to be, but he can still have an impact upon the division if he sets himself straight. He'll hold a belt again IMO.
Macca looks like a bum compared to Haye at the moment, but that might not mean anything come fight night if Haye is weight drained. I worry that he may have over-trained himself.
That said, I'm saying Haye to win by KO around round 6 anyway.
Well he's putting on Haye vs Maccarinelli which is very good for boxing and a HUGE risk for one of his fighters.
Maccarinelli has no other chance at stardom, which is why Warren has been forced to make the fight. Who else is there for Maccarinelli at Cruiserweight? Cunningham is the only other serious fighter. Warren is a bastard, but a clever bastard and he knows that pitting Maccarinelli against Haye is the only chance of exploiting serious money from him in future.
As a Brit I'm pleased that Lockett is gonna get a shot and a big payday, but realistically, he doesn't stand a chance.
Lowcett has never beaten anyone of note and that won't start with Pavlik. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes things more difficult than people might think though, purely on the basis that Enzo Calzaghe will train him properly.
This fight is good news for people wanting to see Pavlik vs Calzaghe anyway. I'm sure they'd play up the revenge thing in promoting a possible fight.
Oh come on... He has given his top fighters huge fights this past year and if it wasn't for him British boxing wouldn't exist anywhere near where it it today.
Warren only gives huge fights when he doesn't have any choice left, which is why Calzaghe's record isn't as good as it should be. His only interest is exploiting money from his fighters by pitting them against mediocre competition with deals he controls completely. When his fighters get so big that he doesn't have a choice (aka Calzaghe), he gives in, but not before.
Warren was good for British boxing in the beginning, but in recent times he has been bleeding the best talent dry to make himself money.
What does Joe Calzaghe do that's exceptional?
He does two things:
1. He fights exceptionally well. Calzaghe is unbeaten and has destroyed the best fighters he's had a chance of fighting against. The likes of Jones Jr, Toney and Hopkins weren't interested in fighting Calzaghe in his prime, so Calzaghe had to beat the best of the rest until now. This leads onto the second thing that Joe Calzaghe does that is exceptional.
2. Calzaghe is exceptionally bad at picking a promoter. Frank Warren is the only reason Calzaghe hasn't had the opportunities to fight the big American fighters until now. Warren is more interested in lining his own pockets from British staged fights he knows Calzaghe will win and for some reason that escapes me, Calzaghe hasn't ever questioned this approach until recently. It wouldn't surprise me if Warren has been bullshitting Calzaghe all these years about who is willing to fight him in order to keep the man in his pocket.
Beating Bernard Hopkins, which he will, won't do much for Calzaghe's legacy but hopefully it'll open up the possibility of a superfight with the winner of Pavlik-Taylor 2. Calzaghe could then go out on a high having beaten a class fighter in his prime for the second time.
Tyson would need to stop it early, because I think Joe is far too tough to lose it in the later rounds. I think Joe would wear Tyson down and stop it late provided Tyson doesn't unload too many successful bombs early on.
Tyson is vastly overrated because he dominated in an exciting fashion in a weak period for heavyweight boxing. Once Holyfield and Lewis came into the division, Tyson looked throughly B-class.
I mean, what is his legacy built on? Beating light-heavyweight Michael Spinks? Beating an old Larry Holmes? Struggling to beat Donovan Ruddock twice? His out of the ring antics no doubt nullified his potential, but no can argue with any credability that Mike Tyson is an all-time great. One of the most exciting fighters ever? No doubt. Potentially an all-time great? No doubt. Part of my ultimate ever PPV? No doubt.
Just imagine the 'greatest of all time' against the 'baddest man on the planet'. It'd be the biggest sporting event in history. Such a shame Ali and Tyson never boxed in the same era.
Yup. I can't stand people who say "boxers had no right" fighting in whatever division. They are paid millions to do what they do. If they're not ready, then don't take it out on the men who beat them. It's really a tired argument.
You're both missing the point.
I'm not defending Trinidad, De La Hoya or Wright, they deserved to lose because they thought they could fight at that weight and win, but took a beating.
What I am saying is that the most impressive wins that Hopkins has on his resume are all under circumstances in which he had a large physical advantage. Therefore, they are not particularly impressive
If he beats Calzaghe, It'll be easily the most impressive win of his career.
LOL... Wow!
Tell me who has Hopkins beaten that is better?
Trinidad? Nope, he should never have competed at middleweight.
De La Hoya? Nope, he should never have competed at middleweight.
Tarver? Nope, for two reasons. 1. He was in terrible shape having had a go at being a movie star. 2. I think Kessler would give him a whupping.
Wright? Nope, he should never have competed at light heavyweight, a whole TWO divisions higher than he is capable of fighting world class fighters at.
Anyone else? Kessler was and still is a world class fighter who fought Calzaghe at his own weight in his physical prime having wrecked his way through all of the other competition. He'll rule the division once Calzaghe retires.
oe wins! ud12 and kelly ahs no business fighting him! he is at least 3 years from being ready! if he ever will be ready that is!
Agreed.
For Calzaghe, this is one of two credible fights left for him presuming he beats Hopkins. The other being Chad Dawson, presuming he beats Glen Johnson.
As a fight fan I'd be excited at the prospect of Calzaghe vs Pavlik, but I'm not sure Bob Arum will let Pavlik take such a dangerous fight. It's all going to come down to whether Pavlik is warrior enough to say "get me a fight with Calzaghe before he retires". I know Pavlik's Dad and trainer have both been quoted as saying they'd like the Calzaghe fight, but does Kelly really want it?
I sure hope so, because even though I have Calzaghe by UD, it could be an exciting and close fight because neither guy gives an inch.
Hopkins list of accomplishments
defeated
Glen Johnson 32-0
Antwun Echols 22-2-1 (2)
Felix Trinidad 40-0
William Joppy 34-2-1
Oscar De La Hoya 37-3-0
Howard Eastman 40-1-0
Antonio Tarver 24-3-0
Ronald Wright 51-3-1
Calzaghe
Defeated
Chris Eubank 45-2-2
Byron Mitchell 25-2-1
Jeff Lacy 21-0-0
Sakio Bika 20-1-2
Peter Manfredo Jr 26-3-0
Mikkel Kessler 39-0-0
I see a lot of world champions on Hopkins list.
Definitely sounds like the more impressive resume if you ask me.
As people have said, Reid, Woodhall and Sheika deserve places on Calzaghe's resume over Manfredo or Bika.
I agree partially though that Hopkins has the more impressive resume, despite some of his wins being inflated in importance due to the opponent being smaller (Trinidad, De La Hoya, Wright) or the opponent being overrated simply because they're American (Echols, Joppy), and might I add that Eastman is hugely overrated regardless of his nationality.
Some of the fighters on Calzaghe's resume are underrated because they have fought largely outside of America (Veit, Woodhall, Reid), but there are a lot of bums on the list too.
I don't see a huge difference in resume quality really except that Hopkins has beaten some very big names, albeit cynically at a weight they can't fight at. I give his resume the edge slightly, but I give the best victory to Calzaghe for beating Kessler.
I hope it happens, but it probably won't
They respect each other too much to fight and upset their mother. I think Vitali, provided he fights the same would win by mid to late KO.
...David Gay is too chinny to bang with the big boys. He's fucking toast when he fights a big man with talent.
Aint that what they say about Wlad too? I'm not saying Haye has a great chin, but he has always said he doesn't have the legs at cruiserweight and he may be right.
Haye might be too fast for the majority of the heavyweight division anyway.
Pavlik's year:
* Beats Taylor by TKO around round 10 following a scrappy fight.
* Beats Duddy by KO around round 8 following a dominant performance.
* Loses to Calzaghe by UD having been tempted to Wales by huge money at Super Middleweight.
It'll depend on if Calzaghe goes for the easy payday option of Jones Jr or Pavlik, but I think he'll have a chance to end his career against Pavlik if he wants it. Bob Arum knows how much money can be made from fighting Calzaghe in Wales.
Thats AWESOME!!!!
No dude, it isn't. Maybe you're only a boxing fan to see people getting hurt, but I'm not and that video is just plain disgusting. Just Low-life college drop-out Jackass fans exploiting ex-cons and bums for their bloodlust as far as I can see.
I put my eternal soul and everything else down to say that I believe Calzaghe won the fight.
It was close, but there is no way a fighter who lands infrequently, is never the aggressor, holds on for dear life when it gets heated and acts like a whiny little bitch when he gets tapped on the crotch can ever win a legitimate decision. Hopkins just didn't do enough.
Cortez was terrible on the night, but in my eyes it doesn't change the outcome of the fight at all. Maybe Hatton doesn't get knocked out if Cortez is fairer, but he still loses a decision to Mayweather simply because he didn't land enough clean shots.
At 140 I'm not sure exactly what would happen because Hatton has looked unbeaten at it, but at 147 Cotto gives him a beating. I don't even say that to discredit Hatton, who I honestly think could beat any of the other top welterweights save Floyd and Cotto, despite clearly not being a welterweight. I say that because I don't think anyone can beat Cotto at 147.
I'm a big fan of Mayweather as a fighter, even if I do feel he's being a sellout and he is currently the number 1 P4P fighter, but he'd lose to Cotto. Cotto is both a big puncher and a surprisingly good technical fighter, something I think would rattle Floyd.
I'm no Cotto nuthugger mind. I realise it would be a close fight and could go either way.
In all those other threads I was just dicking around. In this one my opinion will be official, since it says so in the title.
I just want some no-excuse posts down on record. I don't want the people making bravado claims to be able to change their tune.
I've added this thread to my favourites, so if it drops I can always refer back to it. I'll bump the thread after the fight.
Firstly, when were they fighting in their prime? I have to say Roy around 27 and Joe around 34, although they could have never fought at these times.
Secondly, if we're talking about a real match-up that could have happened, you've got to question whether it could have actually have been done without one easily beating the other? In Roy's prime (let's say after he beat Mike McCallum at 27), Joe hadn't even fought Eubank. In Joe's prime (let's say after he beat Lacy at 34), Roy had been recently KO'd by Tarver and Johnson. The only time to make a competitive fight of it would have been when Roy was 34 having just beat Tarver and when Joe was 32 having just beat Mitchell.
In a purely hypothetical sense though, here is how I see it.
Tough one to call.
Both have very padded out resumes, but cannot be denied as all time greats. Roy had the advantage of being an American, meaning he got shots at other big American fighters like Hopkins and Toney, so I don't think we can go down the road of saying 'Roy fought better people'. Yes, he did and he proved his greatness by beating them, but I'd argue that Joe didn't really have the chance until he exposed the then hugely-rated Lacy.
Ability-wise they have some similar gifts: excellent footwork, hand speed, good reactions.
Roy's individual gift: Raw power
Joe's individual gift: Rock solid chin
Roy's individual weakness: weak-ish chin (I don't buy into it being glass)
Joe's individual weakness: brittle hands
The way their individual gifts and weaknesses match up suggests it would be one hell of a fight. Roy had power, but Joe has a great chin. Roy had a weak chin, but Joe doesn't have the hands to expose it. They match up like a dream from the perspective of a fan. Not to mention that they are both aggresssive and aesthetically pleasing to watch.
I'm going to have to say a Roy SD based on the very hypothetical evidence we have. Roy did beat better fighters than Joe has, even if Joe didn't get his chance and that is the only thing I can go on. I think we can rule out a KO or TKO because of Joe's chin and I think it's fair to say that Roy wouldn't have it all his own way out of respect for Joe's undeniable ability. So a SD sounds about fair, although I wouldn't rule out a Joe decision.
We'll never know though and the two of them getting it on today will prove nothing except that Roy is finished.
If Calzaghe retires having beaten Hopkins and Pavlik as his final fights, I don't think anyone can question that he is an all-time great. At the moment? No, because either by fault of his own or fault of American fighters ducking him, he still has something to prove against the best Americans.
Calzaghe and Jones Jr should have fought in their primes that match up, say just before Roy went to heavyweight. Calzaghe was experienced enough against quality opposition by then and Roy wasn't over the hill. I really, really hope they don't fight now though, because it would tear me apart to see Joe make a mockery of Roy (which I believe would happen) and the win would do nothing for Joe's resume. I really want people to give Joe the credit he deserves. Hopkins may be old, but he is still a P4P fighter and therefore, boosts Joe's resume.
Miranda is vastly overrated.
While it would have been cool to see Kessler give him a brutal beating, I'm not particularly bothered the fight isn't happening. Miranda doesn't particularly deserve a fight with Kessler.
I'd have still rather seen Kessler fight Bute than Mundine again though.
You just don't see top fighters with a beer belly, so in that respect I'm closest to Butterbean! Except of course, I'm about 100 pounds lighter if not more at a guess. How heavy is he?
I'm about 6ft, round about 196 pounds. I've got very broad shoulders,a naturally muscular chest and naturally muscular arms. My legs are pretty damm skinny though, especially in comparison to the rest of me, but they are strong. I could do with losing the belly, but I have no reason to do so at the moment as I haven't boxed in nearly two years and I'm relatively toned most other places. I'd say Miguel Cotto if he were a crusierweight frame-wise, but facially I resemble Kessler most. That said, we aren't that alike.
Haye by UD or late KO/TKO.
Peter is a complete joke. He's slow, technically unsound and far too fat. He always has a punchers chance against Haye, but I feel betting on him would be a travesty. I'm not saying Haye is brilliant, far from it, just that Peter is fairly shit and the fact he owns a title is evidence of how shit the heavyweight division is.
I gotta go with Tarver. Woods is a good fighter, but I've never been a fan particularly. Provided Tarver is taking Woods seriously (and he should), then he'll win by a decision.
He'll probably deserve it to, not that I think it'll matter anyway, because the judges will always side with Tarver in a close-ish fight. Might end up being a controversial decision
Pavlik by TKO.
I'd like Lockett to win because he's British, but to be honest I really would rather he lost provided it sets up a Calzaghe vs Pavlik fight. I actually really like Pavlik as a fighter too though, so I wouldn't be to distressed to see Lockett lose.
Lockett is about to discover just how protected he has been by Frank Warren. Expect the kind of beating Haye gave Maccarinelli, but without Pavlik getting cut.
Like some of the smarter gentlemen in this thread have already said, I don't hate a fighter because of his fans.
For instance, I think Ricky Hatton is a great fighter and a genuinely nice guy, but the core of his fanbase are morons. The same can be said for Hopkins fans, Wlad fans and Floyd fans.