Wait wait wait, what is this? Is this for real, or is he just handing in his UK boxing licence? There's still not much news about it except for the twitter message on sky. Wanna know, if the Vitali talks are still ongoing or if it's official.
Probably just mind games by Haye though.
His licence with the British Board has expired and he just hasn't renewed it. It doesn't really mean much though because he can renew it any time he wants. Saying that, he was on the radio earlier and said it's unlikely he'll be returning.
http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/boxing/1186/95/exclusive-haye-%E2%80%98i%E2%80%99ve-achieved-more-people-believed-i-could%E2%80%99
It's easy to achieve if you're only fighting mediocre competition, but the main problem is that being undefeated is seen as a major string to a fighter's bow (wrongly, imo). It gets to the point where it's more desirable to protect the unbeaten record than risk it against better fighters, which can't be good for boxing. In days gone by if you were undefeated it meant you were untested.
I can almost see where Mayweather is coming from because if he were to lose he would drop considerably in all-time great consideration.
Nearly every all-time great had a few losses and they're still all-time greats. If you've done enough in your career and consistently fought tough opposition then the occasional loss can be overlooked.
I have to respectfully disagree with you my friend. 2003 Tyson was AT LEAST as good as John Ruiz and he was a much harder puncher. If Roy can survive the first 5 rounds, sure he has a chance to win on points. But under no circumstances do I see him knocking Tyson out with punches. He might get him to quit, but he ain't putting him down and nothing he did against Ruiz would suggest he could.
Jones could outbox the 2003 Tyson, but unlike with Holy or Lewis Jones would be unable to hurt him and Tyson would know throughout the fight that he'd only need one big punch, so he's less likely to get discouraged. Tyson's best chance would be to catch him along the ropes.
In reality, Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson when Mike Tyson was not training ANYTHING like he was when he was with Cus D'Amato. Mike had gone on a binge .. he was partying, drinking, doing drugs ... anyone who was in the club scene in New York could easily go out on a Saturday night and bump into Tyson at Bentley's. The man had all but abandoned the discipline that made him "Iron" Mike.
Any real fan who watches and analyzes fights could see that Tyson had also abandoned another element that made him a phenom: His defense.
Tyson had replaced his solid corner of seasoned veterans with his entourage of "friends" from his old neighborhood and Don King's guys. They were so inept that when it came time to actually do corner work, they had forgotten the endswell, and so they used a condom and filled it with ice to work on Tyson.
If that wasn't bad enough, they used vaseline on Tyson's face. Tyson is allergic to vaseline. He told them to use aboline but it was too late. An allergic reaction made it almost impossible for Tyson to see after that point.
The end of Tyson's reign of terror began the day Cus died. Marrying Robin Givens proved to be a nail in his coffin, as well as signing with Don King. The final two nails, however, were when Tyson split with Kevin Rooney and Bill Cayton. Don King had convinced Tyson that everything was racist and he should only surround himself with "his" so-called people.
Everything good in Tyson's life ended at that time but the money, and even the money was going faster than he could earn it.
People can remark all they want to, but real fans of the game and the fighter know what the real deal was.
I thought I'd share that with you Cash Cow, so you can better debate the peasants who make silly remarks.
Later.
That's a myth. Cus died in 1985 and Tyson was pretty damn good for three or four years after that. It was Jimmy Jacobs' death that had a bigger impact on Tyson's career. The two were pretty close and it was only after Jacobs died that King was able to worm his way in and isolate Tyson from Cayton, who he never had a great relationship with.
Not the whole fight, he actually hurt Wlad twice. The point is the Roy that fought Ruiz was miles better than Haye with similar punch resistance so it's not that crazy to imagine him going the distance with Wlad and getting the nod on two scorecards.
He wanted to fight these guys. Read up : http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content7276.html
Wlad is also miles better than Ruiz. All Haye did was last the distance. He didn't even come close to winning. If he'd opened up and tried to win chances are he would have been knocked out. If Jones fought the way Haye did he'd last the distance too but he'd be shut out like Haye was. If he took some risks he'd improve his chances (whilst also improving his chances of getting KO'd) and I don't see Wlad going 12 rounds without connecting and when he did that would probably be that.
Jones said he wanted to fight them. He said he wanted to fight loads of guys he never actually fought. He was demanding something like $100m for Tyson or Lewis, which he was never going to get. At the end of the day if he'd really wanted those fights there was no reason for them not to happen.
It's not like I really have to say this but it was obvious that Jones was not the same fighter he was prior to moving up to heavyweight. None of those things worked with Jones before. He simply had an answer for every style. You don't have to agree. It's understandable that what Roy has done over the last 8 years has tarnished his legacy substantially.
How many times was Jones nailed like he was against Tarver? Multiply that by a thousand and that's how hard Tyson would be hitting him. Nothing in Jones' career suggests he could beat even the 2003 Tyson, who actually looked decent against Etienne that year. But the bottom line with fights like this is if Jones had really fancied his chances it wouldn't just be a fantasy fight...
Wlad connected on Haye's chin and nothing happened. Why? Because your power is diminished when you hit a moving target and you don't have time to plant your feet and sit down on your punches. I think 2003 Roy could take as many flush right hands as Haye did but he wouldn't just move around and do nothing, he would try to outland Wlad by using his jab and going to the body. Would I pick him to win? I don't know but I'm just saying it's not far-fetched.
Did you even read the link I posted?
How is Roy going to do that against a big strong boxer puncher who has a much longer jab (and an excellent one) and a good style for fighting smaller fighters? Even if he manages to get past that jab he's just going to get tied up and leaned on. Anything is possible in boxing but I don't see that myself.
How many times did Wlad land his Sunday punch? Haye didn't give him much chance to land it but in doing so he cost himself any chance of winning the fight. Bear in mind also that Haye has 20-30lbs on the 2003 Jones and unlike Jones he at least had a punch that could have troubled Wlad.
That article is just Roy's promoter talking years after the event. He also says Hopkins was scared of Jones, which I find hard to believe. Whatever the reality of those negotiations, I think Jones was wise enough to know that he'd be overreaching himself against Lewis or Tyson in particular.
Was Roy's chin as good as Haye's back then? If your answer is yes then you're admitting Wlad wouldn't knock him out so now it's a question of who would outbox who. I don't think the Roy that fought Ruiz could be outboxed (except by Ali).
Haye was in survival mode all night and lost nearly every round. That's not exactly a good fight to make the case for Roy here. I find it ridiculous that Jones is somehow going to outbox a 6ft5 240lb guy who rarely loses a round and knows how to fight tall with a long jab and a hard punch. Jones wouldn't even have a puncher's chance. Jones could have fought Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield or even Buster Douglas if he'd wanted to. The fact that he chose not to tells its own story.
I mostly agree with what you said but Tyson would gas whether he mentally gave up or not. The fight would end shortly afterwards. Oh, and prime Rjjr didn't just sit on the ropes and take shots. He circled and fired combinations from angles with sick speed.
I never said he did but even in his prime Jones had a tendency to retreat to the ropes. Even against an old Tyson that could doom him. And Tyson was actually beating Williams up before he tore his knee ligaments and against McBride he just quit. Also bear in mind that around the same time Tyson was losing to those two Jones was getting sparked by Tarver and Johnson so it's not as if he was invincible at this point either.
They're all as bad as each other. It's sad that the IBO is now also being pushed as a serious belt. Won't be long before we have a dozen champions in each division.
hell no man everything doesnt have to do with manny and floyd.....but they boost fighters rankings signed with goldenboy all the time
The Ring is not incorruptible. There was a major scandal in the 70s when they were caught fixing their ratings in favour of Don King fighters.
Hopkins is hardly a terror of the division in his 40s though. He's getting by on skills, experience and spoiling tactics but is still only 5-3 in his last eight fights.
Should fight Cotto at the weight Miguel is at right now.
Failing that take on Paul Williams.
REally want to see Williams V Cotto.
Do you not like Cotto?
Just listening to people call in to Radio 5 here, people who know nothing about boxing, probably don't even know who Pacquiao is, all being insulting to Harrison. Not to mention people on here.
Audley's a nice guy, I've met him, he has a nice family and lovely kid, he doesn't deserve the **** he gets from people.
So he failed on the big stage in boxing, he gave it his all but he wasn't good enough, simple as that. He doesn't deserve the **** from keyboard warriors and cowards like Hitman from Michigan.
He deserves all the boxing-related criticism he gets. A decade of hype, the £1million BBC contract, a thoroughly undeserved title shot and so forth, and utterly failing to deliver. He just isn't a very good fighter. He always looked to me like he didn't really want to be there, not a natural warrior like say a Duran or a Holyfield.
I agree regarding the personal vitriol, however. No boxer deserves to be called a coward or a quitter. Anyone who's ever laced up a pair will know it takes rocks of granite to even step in the ring. He's probably a decent bloke, certainly more likeable than the numerous thugs and criminals in the sport. He should retire now while he's prosperous and healthy.
As I said above though, it's not a joke for lack of talent.
It's a joke for trying to pass this fight off as something it wasn't and it speaks to the problem that everyone from the fans, fighters, trainers to the media colluded to make this happen and pretend that it mattered.
It's similar to Top Rank keeping things in house and pretending that they are doing it because the fans want it and not because they are greedy and risk averse.
Every fight gets passed off. Thousands of fights are mismatches or stinkers but no one admits that when they're trying sell them to the paying public. Most British fight fans I spoke to thought it was a joke and that Harrison didn't deserve a title shot, and so it proved. Those that did support the fight were just hoping Harrison would finally be booted into touch for good.
You can hardly blame Sky for doing what they did. They had a product to flog and they gave it the hard sell, like any salesman would.
I disagree with you there I think Douglas was an overachiever that had his short comings exposed by a great champ in Holyfield. Even if Douglas stayed around the top tier after the Holy loss do you really think he'd beat Lewis, Bowe, Moorer? I think he had one great moment, made millions off it and got out a bit late, but good luck to him that's the dream of all prizefighters to retire with a pocketful of cash.
I'd put Douglas in the same category as Bowe - hugely talented, but inattentive to training and overly fond of junk food. Wasted really. He fought Tony Tucker for the vacant IBF title three years prior to Tyson, and was winning before running out of steam and throwing in the towel.
The Douglas Holyfield beat bore no comparison to the one who beat Tyson. After the high of Tyson he went back to his old habits and turned up for the Holyfield fight fat and unmotivated and quickly got himself KO'd.
calzaghe said in 2000 "i will never fight roy jones. he is too good for me. i would rather stay in wales and defend my bogus wbo title against soft opposition than get beat up by roy. only way i will ever fight him if he's 40 and totally shot. then i might have a chance"
what a legend
Roy said in 2000 "I will never fight Dariusz. I'm the p4p #1, baby. Why should I have to fight the best to prove I'm the best? I would rather stay in America and defend my paper/non-linear titles against soft opposition than risk it all against Dariusz. The only way i will ever fight him if he's 40 and totally shot, by which point there'll be no interest in the fight anyway."
L.E.G.E.N.D.
Im fron England not the U.S.
I never said you were. My point is this is such a vague issue, with millions of examples like Lewis. Everyone is happy to look the other way when it suits. At this year's Olympics there was an athlete representing the States who had previously won medals for Kenya. France's winning goal at Euro 2000 was scored by a born and bred Argentine.
I don't count Bob Fitzsimmons as a Brit, seeing as he left at a young age and never returned, learned to box in New Zealand, and eventually became an American citizen. As for Lennox, he was born in England, lived here til his early teens, and regards himself as English, so I don't see the point of all for this fuss.
Lennox Lewis representing the French speaking nation of Great Britain.
Wooo.....Team GB....go.
I don't remember many complaints about all the foreign-born athletes who competed for the US at the last Olympics.
honestly even tho thier different weight classes and calzaghe would beat him 90 out of 100 times. Oscar has a whey stronger left hook then anything calslappy can bring. he does tho its true, calzaghe doesnt hit hard at all, if oscar was a super middle weight hed drop calzaghe. and dont forget oscar was hanging in with hopkins until that 9th round body shot. and manny pacquio i think thats a complete mismatch
Oscar has a good left hook against opponents his own size. His only two outings at 160 both showed he was out of his depth there. If Sugar Ray Leonard was a heavyweight, he'd probably KO Lennox Lewis. But he wasn't, which is why he'd by KO'd by Lewis.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7e878b4603.jpg
how much does the heavy weight division need David Haye, even if he does lose (which i don't think he will) the guys here to stay for a few years at least!
Exactly. Whether he loses or not, for the first time in years we have a fight in the heavyweight division to look forward to.
Small chance, but hear me out.
Roy could only win by SD,MD or Ud(115-113). Not enough power for a KO, mabye a lucky flash KD.
Roy couldn't trade at any point in the first 5 rounds, thats obvious.
So, his plan would be to evade Tyson for 5 rounds, while landing as may body shots a possible. This, of course, would put Tyson up by 5 rounds(given Tyson does KTFO Roy).
After the 5th round Roy would be able to take the fight based on Tyson's lack of endurance(Douglas fight).
That would be his only chance, win the rest of the 7 rounds.
Whatever you've been smoking, I'd like some too. ;)
I know that. Everything about the fight was German though.
Do you not think that corruption is a big part of German boxing?
Plenty of foreign fighters have won decisions in Germany. It's just the controversial ones that people remember. Corruption and hometown decisions are a worldwide problem in boxing.
I suppose the places that staged Spinks-HolmesII, Whitaker-Chavez, Foreman-Schulz, DLH-Sturm etc. should also be wiped off the boxing map?
Get real Danc. You're better than that.
I agree with you. It was an absolute farce of a fight to begin with, staged in a boxing backwater, with the novelty value of featuring the largest heavyweight champ and the oldest heavyweight challenger, neither of whom has much to offer.
As for the fight itself, I don't really see what all the fuss is about. It was a stinker, so piss poor and lacking in quality that either man could have pinched it and not deserved to. In my book a losing fighter has to do a lot more than throw six punches a round before he can complain about being robbed. As you said earlier, a draw would have been reasonable.
Holyfield is already deluded and punchy, and the last thing he and boxing overall needs is everyone telling him he pitched a shut-out and got jobbed. I bet Holyfield-Valuev II is already in the pipeline.
Yup, old Evan is 10-7-2 in title matches now.
Big question is whether he can break his own record next year for 8 title losses in his 3rd straight title loss?
Ya basta, when is enough enough?
His heavy record is only 24-10-2, and he wants to unify the belts. You people support this?
Robbery when the poor devil barely cracks 10% KO ratio the past 10 yrs with the work rate of a snail? When Big George was that age, he could at least send fighters flying in reverse as he either knocked them about or otherwise scattered them to the four corners.
Have Americans finally lost the plot? With Toney and Bowe in the breech next, is it robbery when they get their shots ahead of Evan in 2009?
Is this what proud boxing heritage has finally come to?
You're right, it is a joke, and a sad reflection on boxing today. It wasn't a robbery. Just a stinker of a fight from which neither man really deserved anything. If Holyfield had got the decision, in no way would it be up there with Foreman's KO of Moorer or Hopkins' shut-out of Pavlik.
Holyfield is a shell of his former self and already slurry. While his current mission to clean out the heavyweight division is apparently sanctioned by the Good Lord himself, all this "robbery" and "travesty" hysterics will only delude him further and encourage him to do more to damage to himself and the sport overall.