DreamerUSA

Bradley vs. Brook? Garcia vs. Vargas?? Thurman vs Porter??? Please explain, why you think so?.. All are good fights, but none of them would establish a true number one. The winners of these fights would need to fight each other to sort out number one. Which imo would be Brook, Danny and Thurman. Brook or Thurman dismantles Danny as far as I'm concerned. The real fight imo is Brook vs Thurman, but time will tell.

It's not that I don't think he's knowledgeable. He clearly understands boxing. He used to be......decent. Anymore he's just as biased as your average NSB poster. He pretty much always looks for a reason to tell you to bet on the black fighter. And his Fury pick doesn't look near as good, when you consider that he always picks against Klitschko. He likes to pick massive underdogs and then claim victory when he finally strikes one. From a betting standpoint, he's cringeworthy at best. I've been betting for 15 or so years. And to listen to him just irks me beyond belief. "Bet ______ by KO. Hedge with ________ straight" - but he NEVER mentions the odds. As if every single fight has a hedging opportunity, when in fact, very few actually provide one that makes any sense, with a chance to profit. You can't tell someone to bet "so and so" to KO Golovkin, hedged with GGG straight, without mentioning that GGG straight is like -5600 odds. His fight breakdowns, while sometimes decent, take forever to arrive at the point. His betting advice is god awful. Terrible. I get what you're saying. I bet a lot myself and he can be frustrating for the reasons you listed. I've always thought that was more because of the fact he has other channels and a website for the actual gambling side of things. Maybe he gets more in depth there, but never listened to those so I don't know. I do like his fight breakdowns though. Don't always agree with his conclusions, but the guy obviously knows his **** when it comes to boxing.

Hearn is one of my favorite promoters to listen to when he gives an interview, the guy is genuinely an interesting guy. This. Guy is obviously full of ****. He is a salesman afterall lol. With that said I really enjoy his interviews. He gives a much more honest take on his fighters than most promoters I've seen. Plus it seems he will work with anyone in the sport if money can be made.

I'll name a few: Crawford: Saw him get hurt several times against Gamboa, and his chin hasn't been tested against bigger fighters yet. I personally don't think he lasts very long if he moves up to 147. Kovalev: Still have questions about his durability. Anthony Joshua: Very chinny indeed. Doesn't have the greatest defense either so if you put him in with a skilled puncher he's going to be in a world of trouble. Him vs. Wilder is literally 50/50, first one who lands wins. Kovalev? Not that Pascal is a monster puncher, but he is far from feather fisted. If Kovalev had a chin problem we would of known in their first fight. Kovalev got caught with some huge shots in that fight. He may get stopped, but it will be a Stevenson or Beterbiev that does it and its not like you have to be chinny to get stopped by punchers like that.

Today's boxing fan be like: "Fighters today are divas. They don't fight anybody" "He ducking doe" "Boxing is dead. No good fights are being made." "UFC has passed boxing. The best actually fight the best." "Boxers are cherrypickers. They want the lowest risk for the highest amount of money." Yet...380,000 fans purchased May/Berto, 400K purchased Pac/Algieri, 800K watched Floyd rematch Maidana, 350K watched Canelo/Angulo, and 500K watched Pac fight Bradley for a 3rd time. Only the Pac/Bradley triology was a fight between two top 5 contenders in a division. What's wrong with this picture? Shouldn't the best matchups be on PPV and the mismatches be on free TV? Since 2008, these are the only PPV fights that involved a unanimous 1 vs. 2 matchup in a division: 1. Mayweather vs. Canelo 2. Canelo vs. Lara 3. Mayweather vs. Pacquiao Is this proof that boxing fans don't care about the best fighting the best but have a casual side of them that just cares about the big names? Money was shelled out for mismatch after mismatch, year after year, but when we actually get a fight worth watching it's time to watch your budget? For me it won't matter if I'm one of 500 people that buy the fight. Postol vs Crawford is a top notch match up and I'm not missing it. Unless they act dumb and charge like 100 bucks lol. With that said, I doubt this fight sells well. You got Crawford who has a very loyal following, but is far from a star and you have Postol, who from what i can tell has five hardcore boxing fans rooting for him. Crawford can't carry this PPV on his own.

Losing to Manny Pacquiao isn't really a reason to take a huge drop in the rankings but prior to Brandon Rios Tim had/has been getting caught a lot, not to mention Pac dropped him twice which he wasnt able to before. Personally I think Bradley is still #2 but any fine performance by a top 5 guy (Brook, Garcia, Vargas, Thruman, Porter) can kick him out of that spot. With that said, do you think Bradley is #2 at ww? If not where do you put him?? And who do you think is #2??? Anywhere from #1-#3 is fine imo. Brook is the only guy in the division that I think flat out beats Bradley. Thurman I'm back and forth on as of late, I'll know more after the Porter fight. Bradley beats anyone else in the division imo, right now.

You're wanting to count the first Bradley-Pac fight as a win for Bradley? The only ranked WW Bradley has ever beaten is JMM. He really hasn't done much at WW if you really look at it. My feelings on the decision don't matter. Fact remains that he was 1-1-1 in those three fights. Add the Marquez win and who exactly is ahead of him as far as resume goes at ww? A couple guys could be if the would fight each other, but until that happens they are sucking hind tit. Like I said to Larry. The fact he was still the #2 ww is a testament to how ***** made the division has been for several years now.

I'm not suggesting we shit on them for losing. I am just saying losing has to matter. In this climate-only Tim and JMM will get a shot at Manny. The loser shouldn't get to stay at 2 because of the resume after a loss. How does Thurman or Brook ever get to #1 if #1 never fights them and keeps beating everyone he does fight, except the champ? Bradley's resume is better but he is miles behind Manny. Can we say the same for Brook and Thurman if they never get to fight JMM, Manny or Tim? Losing matters but who it is and how you lose also matter. Anyways. I've said for a long time that Floyd and Manny should of already fought the kids, but they did'nt, and their rankings had nothing to do with it. So the kids should of been fighting each other, but they hav'nt been, for the most part. All of them looking for that payday that never materialized. Am I really suppose to move Thurman ahead of Bradley because Bradley lost to Pac when Thurman's last wins were versus Collazo and Guerrero and the next time he steps in the ring versus Porter, it will be nearly a year since he fought. Versus Bradley with wins over Vargas and Rios and an L to Pac in the time frame that Thurman has been inactive. What about that qualifies Thurman to move ahead of Bradley in rankings? And Brook? His fights are'nt even worth mentioning since he beat Porter 2 years ago. Anyways this argument is a moot point. With Floyd and Manny gone these guys will actually have to fight each other now. No matter what ranking system you look at all of them are somewhere in or around the top 5. By all of them I mean Bradley, Thurman, Garcia, Brook, Vargas, Porter, Khan and I'll throw Spence in as a wild card.

really no one interested in this guy? I am surprised... you make a Floyd/Paquio/Golovkin/Ward thread and the forum explodes... This guy deserves some attention. I like what I see from the kid, but just hav'nt seen enough of him. Honestly have only seen his last two fights which neither lasted very long lol. He looks to be ready for that next level of fighter, but again its hard to gauge him when I've seen two rounds of his lol.

Dreamer, how are you counting losses in this climate? Tim lost to manny. Shouldn't he drop? Him staying at #2 isn't fair because Thurman and Brook, in this climate, can't get a fight with #1. Same with Manny-he lost to JMM and Floyd. yes they are better than all other WW's but is it fair for guys that can't fight Floyd/Tim/Manny to stay behind him in this climate? Its as if no one other than Manny, tim or JMM can be ranked #1 or #2. Because I simply don't **** on guys for taking an L here or there when they are taking tough fights. In all honesty I believe Thurman and Brook are the two best welterweights, but that is based on what I see in the ring not on what they have actually accomplished. Brook's best win is Porter and Thurman's is Chavez. Tim has at least two wins that are better than those and arguably a couple of other wins that would at least be on par with those wins. Its not even ****ing close imo.

So how does that make his the #2 ww? Because no one not named Manny or Floyd has fought the level of competition he has at ww, period. Certainly not Brook or Thurman. If he should of or could of fought better opposition is irrelevant. When compared side by side, again, no one not named Manny or Floyd, has fought the level of opposition he has. Its not even close in fact. That is a testament to how these guys are all pretty much avoiding taking tough fights. Again I ask, who would you of ranked above him, based on resume?

Andrade vs Lara Walters/Loma/Uchiyama Estrada vs Gonzalez Ward vs Kovalev GGG vs DeGale

No and he should not have been ranked #2 in the 1st place imo..he doesnt even fight true ww's..look at the ww rankings and tell me who he has fought on there Tim had 7 fights at WW prior to Saturday. Manny x 2, and Chavez. 3 top 10 WW's in 7 fights. Who else outside of him, has done that? In fact. Since Bradley came to WW, his and Manny's resume are quite similar outside of Manny fighting Floyd. I'm curious who you would rank higher, based on resume. Also you can't just discount the Ruslan and Marquez wins. Considering those were Tim's 2nd and 3rd fights at welterweight.

He won none of those fights against Pacquiao and Chaves, great argument. :lol1: Ruslan wasn't a ranked WW either. :lol1: 1. He asked who he fought, not who he beat. 2. He was 1-1-1 in those three fights. 3. Never claimed that Ruslan was ranked. 4. Don't quote me out of context.

These two guys are the future of the super middleweight and light heavyweight division. I say in 18 months this will be the fight to make in boxing. I'm a big fan of both but imma ride wit Callum Smith. http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03494/callum_smith_3494205b.jpg vs. http://www.toprank.com/uploaded_files/images/fighters/i_21944aed700ad94bf96874c516988e81Zurdo-1.jpg Nice fight, but doubt it happens anytime soon if ever. Smith looks to be in line as Jack's manadatory and should he beat Jack, a DeGale fight is almost a certainty as that would be a big fight across the pond. I have serious doubts that he could beat DeGale. Though as I said in another thread, I hav'nt seen a lot of the kid so who knows. Ramirez looked good against AA, but still not completely sold on the kid. Guess we will see what he does for his next couple fights. As far as them being kingpins at 168/175, that is a big ask. You got DeGale and Chudinov at 168 plus Jesse Hart who looks to be close to in line for a shot at Ramirez. You got Kovalev, Ward, Beterbiev, and a kid I'm high on in Marcus Browne at 175. If they can beat a couple of guys like the Dirrell brothers, I may change my tune, but I think there is several guys that they will have a very tough time beating based on what I've seen up to this point.

If he has improved beyond his prime, how can that still be classified than his prime if he better than what he was? How can you be better than your prime, but not be in your prime? Easily. A 5'10", 300 lb man can be in his physical prime, but by your logic he would be incapable of getting himself in to peak physical condition. /facepalm

What? This is boxing. When Canelo goes on a run of impressive wins against good to great opponents showcasing his skills then we can say he is in his prime during that run. He is in his prime now? During a run that has sketchy wins against Trout and Lara, Loss to Floyd, Good win against Angulo and win against Cotto? This is the best that Canelo can be? That is laughable beyond belief. Since when has Physical peak been the definition for someones prime? He can be at his physical peak, but his skills can still be raw. "He's in his prime because even though his footwork is sketchy, his accuracy is way off, his defense is still hit or miss but but ignore all that because of his physical stature." Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. /sigh Being in your prime does'nt mean you can't improve. It simply means you've hit the point where your abilities have a ceiling that you're not going to be able to surpass. It does'nt mean you have hit that ceiling.

if pistol wins i think pistol deserves a spot on the p4p list. (pistol at number 9) if crawford wins i would put him at number 3 (over golovkin) i have stated this to people and they have a beef with crawford being ranked higher then golovkin, with a win over pistol. your thoughts? Imo Crawford is the best fighter in the world. He has'nt proven it yet, but Postol would certainly be a big step in that direction. So I could easily see him in the top 5 with a win. Honestly would'nt have a problem with him being ahead of just about anyone. If Postol wins, he would definitley hop into my top ten, but I just don't see that happening.

There is nobody in boxing that is going to beat a prime Canelo easily. This notion that some people have is nonsensical. A 21 year old Canelo, by all accounts, gave Golovkin a damn good fight and he has improved massively since then in every department. That was 2 years before the Mayweather fight, everyone should see the huge improvements he has made, as well as the size and power difference between a 21 year old and 25 year old Canelo. Unless Canelo can figure out how to neutralize GGG's jab, stay inside and smother his power, improves his stamina against a guy who is'nt going to let him take breaks, and somehow learns to get power on his punches without having his feet planted like they are cemented to the ground. He will be an easy victim. He may win a few rounds and I think he will be able to go 8-9 rounds because he is a tough kid, but he does'nt have the inside game or power to stop GGG from having his way with him.

Uh, prime: When an athlete is at their athletic peak, their skills are the best they will be for their career and they will not be better than they are right now. So, Canelo is in his prime? Don't think so. You're nitpicking. Canelo is certainly in his physical prime. How long that will last is anyones guess. As for his skills, again that is anyones guess. He may or may not of peaked in that department, time will tell. But to say he is'nt in his prime is pretty silly unless you want to take your argument to its logical conclusion. Which means unless you can pinpoint the nanosecond that he hits his all around prime, no one can ever claim he was in his prime.

How highly do you think of TC ? Will he one day become the p4p king? I think he is the best fighter in the world, right now. He has a lot to prove to be recognized as such, but I think the kid beats anyone from 135-147.

He comes in consistently at 159.5 and rehydrates to 172. And he's shredded. Over the last three years GGG has averaged 169 on fight night. 172 is the most he has ever weighed and if I remember correctly is the only time he came in over 170. I agree that at 155 he will be drained, but it won't make a difference in the outcome imo. It turns a 90/10 fight into an 80/20 fight imo.

I saw an unfavorable account of Darnell Boone, so this post is necessary, I dare any Undefeated prospect at 160/154 to face Darnell Boone, even the current older version & still we will get to see some nice Knockouts Boone fought as low as 156 without having to drain weight (5'6" fella who is listed 5'7") & instead matchmakers gave him fights way above his weight/height/reach, yet Boone made the best of it Andre Ward only KD in his life was (because of Boone) Adonis Stevenson is 27-1-0 (because of Boone) Sergey Kovalev lost his 100% Ko ratio (because of Boone) Sergey Kovalev down for the first time (because of Boone) Lennox Allen is 20-0-1 (because of Boone) Morgan Fitch is 16-0-1 (because of Boone) James Countryman is 14-1-0 (because of Boone) Ronalid Johnson is 11-1-0 (because of Boone) GGG opponent(Monroe) only lost once (because of Boone) KO Artist James Johnson quit boxing (because of Boone) Lajuan Simon has 2 draws (because of Boone) Judges made extra $ SD, MD, UD (because of Boone) It is annoying when guys like Boone get **** on. I wish I could remember who it was on these forums a few months ago who made a great statement about Boone, but I'll paraphrase. Without the Boones of the world, boxing just is'nt the same. Guys like him are an absolute necessity to the sport. Guys like him seperate real prospects from pretenders. I've seen the guy fight many times and he is twice the fighter tha half of these undefeated prospects I see running around flapping their gums, claim to be. I don't know if I agree with the one poster that claimed he could of been a champion, but with a good trainer, manager and promoter behind him he could of been a lot more than a low level stepping stone.

I'd favor Andrade over Canelo at 154....155.....160 Andrade has the style that troubles Canelo, plus he has pop and can fight inside, counter has speed, defense etc. Idk how a fight with GGG would go because I havent seen GGG deal with his style. Its all speculation anyway but He'd give GGG major problems Two things with the GGG fight. Will Boo Boo's chin hold up. Also his biggest flaw is he has a tendency to get a bit wild and his balance is pretty bad when he does. If they fought today, I think that gets him clipped. I'm hoping a little more seasoning will sort that out and if thats the case. He will be a serious handful for GGG imo. As for Canelo. I just want to see that fight to watch Canelo take a 12 round beating lol.

Lara (after Vanes) Andrade J-Rock GGG Boo Lara. =) :boxing: Definitley be betting points on that fight if it ever happens. Not that I have many points, but still. :argue:

If al covers the losses the same way K2 does, it shouldn't matter. Yes, the fighters want bigger money for bigger fights, GGG is no different. Maybe that's what drove the Lemuiex fight to PPV? I am not saying you are wrong, I just think the same thing has to apply here since promoter have to offset the losses in both situations (obviously I assume the HBO losses are much lower). Well its apparent Al has been covering losses up to this point, but with the money dwindleing down, that ship is quickly sailing away. Also you assume that K2 is losing money on this fight when there is no reason to believe they are. While the old addage goes that you have to spend money to make money. Eventually you do have to start making money. These promoters/managers are'nt a central bank that can print money at will. Never said that GGG does'nt want more money for bigger fights. The difference is that from what we can see, GGG is actually generating the revenue to justify more money.

I had it a draw, 7-5 for both guys but more times than not Floyd wins by a round or two.....giving away all those early rounds killed Castillo.....fights are scored round by round, not by punch stats....one big round or 2 could swing stats in a major way, but people on this site who claim to be boxing fans are too damn lazy to watch the fights, they just cling on to something they heard without research...well thats the american way It was a very close fight with several close rounds. I personally felt that Castillo won, but can't get upset that people feel Floyd won. The thing I always say on the subject is this. Floyd did what he was supposed to do in a situation like this and gave Castillo a rematch and clearly beat him. Nothing else you can ask from a fighter that wins a close, tough decision.

It is interesting how there are a group of posters that claim Garcia and Thurman (just to name 2) getting $1.5 mil for bums hurts the sport because it's a disincentive to fight quality opposition but have yet to weigh in on if GGG getting $2 mil for a bum hurts the sport as well. The answer to this is pretty simple. Many of those big paydays that some of Al's fighters have got were simply due to them being overpayed. Had nothing to do with the money generated. Thurman vs Collazo for example. Thurman got 1.5 million and Collazo got 500k. They had an attendance of just over 4k. GGG is getting 2 million and Wade 500k. With an estimated attendance north of 16k. Its not hard to figure out which one is actually likely to make money. Also GGG has actually been trying to make the fights within his division. Given the Lemieux purse and what we know of the BJS offers. GGG has'nt been a ***** about money like several fighters have been.

It can't only be a problem in certain instances and not others. If high payments for mismatches is a disincentive to take on tough fights, then it must be for GGG as well since he, just like the fighters I mentioned, is in the same situation. Fair point-but the undercard is also very expensive. If they sell 16k tickets the average ticket price has to be about $180 to cover the purses ($2,875,000) for the main and semi main. You know the avg price by any chance? It most certainly can be different. If GGG fighting a bum generates revenue of 2.5 million but him fighting a top guy generates 5 million than there is no problem. The problem with some of Al's guys is they are getting paid like they are putting 16k ass' in seats, but are'nt. So when they actually get to an opponent that will justify them making 1.5-2 million they want 3-5 million but the money simply is'nt there. What GGG is doing is'nt going to **** block a fight from being made because of money. As for the average, I have no clue. I think the nosebleeds were like 30-60 and floor seats were in the 400 range.

Take out the politics and excuses and just list the 3 fights you would love to see your favorite active fighter in(against active fighters) Andrade 1. Lara 2. J-Rock 3. Canelo If he got through all that. Then GGG.