Boxer149

Just in case anybody tries to question his resume, let's run down a quick list of former/current champs or world title challengers Cotto has fought during his career: Mayweather Pacquiao Mosley Judah Margarito Malignaggi Quintana Trout Mayorga Maussa Ndou Bailey Corley Pinto Torres Rodriguez Branco Martinez(as of Saturday) And I may still be missing some... He has taken on all comers, and has never let anything get in the way of negotiating a fight. No other fighter on the list of his opponents can make the same claim. Cotto=HOF.. It's not even a question.

If you take off the guys he lost to(and will lose to on saturday) it's a much less impressive resume TBH. Nuff' respect though. That's a valid point, but even if you did take them off the list would still include multiple champions across weight divisions, and the point I was making is that if you take any other top fighter on the list and run their record down, you wouldn't be able to say that they fought everybody they should have. Hell, the top two on his list of opponents have yet to, and most likely never will, fight each other. Mayweather never fought Margarito either, went out of his way to make sure of it for a couple of years. Cotto is the only guy that can say he fought all of the top opposition there was for him to face, including Mayweather and Pacquiao.

Anybody that thinks Miguel Cotto does not belong in the Hall of Fame has completely lost their mind. This man is a 4 time world champion in 3 different divisions, with the possibility of a fourth division title this Saturday. And he has accomplished all of this while fighting the best that boxing has had to offer in his era. He has never ducked anybody, always comes to fight, and has never made excuses when he lost a fight. There are plenty of fighters in the HOF with more questionable resumes than that of Miguel Cotto. There is no way anybody can reasonably say he is not a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Cotto is one of the bigger draws in boxing and has been for the past few years, a solid #3 behind Pac and Floyd. Latino fans in general always support their fighters and Argentina has aloud base of professional fighters that fans follow as well (Chino, Lucas, Sergio..) Just the fact that it's two of the best facing each other with historical significance on the line, and on the weekend of the PR Parade in NYC, this fight does no less then 500K.. Could get as high as 650k with the way people are buzzing about it.

I really hope they don't go ahead with Garcia for September. That just seems like too much of a mismatch to me. Now don't get me wrong, boxing is boxing so I would still watch but I don't think I would fork up $70 for a Mayweather-Garcia scrap, even if Chino and One Time were the co-main. Sounds more like a card that I'll watch at Buffalo Wild Wings for a $10 cover charge.

But the problem is: nothing was clear with Ward. This post would be fine and dandy if Ward was clearly outboxing Kovalev and putting on a clinic. But that wasn't happening... At most, Wards best moments were really 50/50 moments because Kovalev came right back and hit him with the same stuff. It's one thing if Ward was putting on this masterful clinic around the ring, jabbing and stopping Kovalev in his tracks at will. But that didn't happen. For any successful moment for Ward in the rounds he "won," one could make the case that Kovalev was comfortably outboxing Ward in those spans as well. You can't make the case that either fighter was comfortably out boxing the other in those rounds, they were razor close. But the perception of those rounds in light of how the first few rounds looked would lead most people to believe that Ward was reestablishing himself and taking control of the fight- even though the action was back and forth. The only round that was clear for Kovalev was round 2, and maybe the first. There is a lot of fight left after that, and they were continuously gaining the advantage on each other. But the tempo and rhythm of the fight was changed in Ward's favor in the 2nd half

Ring generalship is such a shot concept. Point is to land more andd be hot less. Floyd fans should know that. Kovalev did it. Generalship is a hazy meaningless concept to justify when your guy does not clearly win You cant bring Floyd into the conversation and not say part of his mastery in the ring was due to his ring generalship

Kovalev outlanded Ward in rounds 10 and 12, 17-11, and 21-13, and if Kovalev gets even one of those rounds- he wins. Can somebody on here make a legitimate case for Ward winning those two rounds? (no cry baby) I'm legit curious- because if Ward did legit win those rounds, then it was closer then I thought. but as of now, it's looking more and more like a robbery due to incorrect judging of those two rounds. Anybody got good justification for Ward winning those two rounds? The justification I have is two fold- first being that judges do not get to see the compubox stats round by round and they are judging on what they are seeing live- which realistically could have been Ward controlling in terms of ring position and generalship. Second, Compubox is a really antiquated system that does not get it right all the time. several cases in the past of punch stats that look nothing like what you see with your own two eyes.

Kovalev won. He controlled the pace and fought his fight. I do not see Ward winning 7 rds. I gave him 4rds and the most 5 if going out of my way to be generous. 115-112 kovalev. I don't see that- it was tale of two halves of a fight. Kovalev clearly established himself in the first half but Ward controlled the second half of the fight. it still doesn't take away from either fighter's performance last night.

Dr Rumack said it best in another thread: "It's important to recognise why that happens too. There's a huge problem with narrative bias when a guy like Ward fights. If the round is low action, he seems to win by default, without actually having to score himself. He gets credit for defence. But Kovalev gets no credit. When Kovalev blocks and slips shots, making Ward miss, it doesn't matter. Kovalev's defence is not part of the narrative. Only his offence. Whereas Ward gets credit for both. So Kovalev can only win rounds by landing heavy flush shots. Whereas Ward can win the round with a couple of spear jabs. I'm sick of seeing it. Both guys should have to score at the same level to win. In boxing at the moment it's like a soccer team playing ultra defensive against an attacking team, and being awarded the win without actually having to score themselves." He makes a great point, but if you go by HBO announcers last night, it seemed to be clear that Lampley and Lederman were clearly favoring Kovalev and Kellerman was playing Devils advocate and speaking up when Ward was landing.. There was not much of a narrative bias for Ward at all last night. And it's almost impossible to have a narrative bias in such a close fight. On a side note though, I respect how hard you are defending your fighter without resorting to childish bull**** that a lot of other people do. I can actually enjoy the back and forth when it's done with class

Honest to goodness, I'm not even being biased. I legitimately thought Kovalev was winning comfortable, although competitive, but comfortably. I was giving Ward props for coming back and showing heart, etc, and then I heard "114-113," and I knew it was coming. How can they say Ward was winning? You've seen Andre Ward before bro, and that was not the same type of rhythm he carries with him in his other fights, he was fighting Kovalevs fight bro and he broke through "survival mode" to land some nice body shots in the later round, but Kovalev landed maybe the same amount of body shots, and then some. It's like Ward got gifted "sympathy rounds" just for hanging in there and showing guts, but that's not how boxing should be judged :( I can appreciate what you are saying and some of it is completely valid. But the momentum of the fight completely changed after Round 5- Ward was able to adjust to where he could implement his game plan and find the right distance to be able to land his shots while getting out of the way of Kovalev's attack more often than not. To say that Andre Ward did not carry the same rhythm as in other fights is only half right. It took him longer than normal to adjust the game plan to try and find his rhythm, which he eventually did. That is a testament to just prove that Kovalev is a world class fighter, but it doesn't mean Ward didn't deserve the win. It was an awesome fight- the kind of fight boxing needs more of. But I'm not upset with the decision-I think the judges did a great job last night. Kovalev is an elite fighter without question-but I think he rested on the fact that the knockdown would be the difference in the fight and it cost him.

I DID actually think that Max was doing a little more then playing devils advocate. He was bias towards Ward when I don't think he should of been. I thought he was calling things for Ward when they looked to go for Kovalev. He missed some legit head-snapping punches that Kovlaev landed and then brought up a a body shot by Ward right after. But at any rate, I agree with your side note, thanks for the debate! Maybe he was a little biased toward Ward, but you have to agree that Lampley and especially Lederman were biased for Sergey. Lampley even had to correct himself for saying Ward got hurt with a right hand they they saw didn't even land on the replay. Regardless of all that, it was a great fight. Hopefully politics doesn't come into play and we actually see a quick turnaround for the rematch

yeah kovalev did pretty well cause i'd been told by many he had no chance. is hilarious cause the purist brigade were telling me that i 'dont genuinely believe kovalev can win' and were so arrogant that they dismissed any predictions of kovalev winning on points as 'trolling' well he won pretty ****ing clear on points on my card and quite a few others. funnily enough a lot of them have gone quiet today. Well, there is honestly no way that anybody should have thought Kovalev had no chance. People that thought that do not know boxing at all-but it doesn't change last night's result.. He came up just short by the same margin on all 3 judges cards and they did not have each round scored the same. Let's see wht he can do in a rematch.

Do you legitimately believe that Kovalev won only 5 rounds or less?[/Q It honestly could have been 7-5 for either fighter-- or a draw. It really depends on how you judge each round. The fight was incredibly close, I just think Ward did enough to turn the tide and get the W. Everybody is talking about the judges and how they came to their scores but they each scored the individual rounds differently and still came up 114-113 Ward- it does not get any closer than that. This is the first rematch I am genuinely excited about in years...

I still don't understand where all the Cotto hate originated.. He's the first Puerto Rican boxer to win titles in 4 weight divisions- he has never ducked a fight- has fought the best of his generation and never had to try to gain an unfair advantage that any other fighters aren't guilty of- by that I mean catch weight fights.. He's a throwback fighter that doesn't get the credit he deserves and yet people wanna hang off the nuts of fighters who are too chicken **** to take on the best and see where they stand...

His ring genership can be measured: atg defense, enough offense. We cant throw it around to justify a winner without quantifiable proof. I brought it up to say that the case could be made for Ward winning those rounds because judges don't see Compubox on a round by round basis. They are going based on what they see, and it is possible they saw the fight being dictated and fought at a pace beneficial to Andre in comparison to what they were seeing in the first half of the fight. The second half of the fight was much more clearly Ward's type of fight. Kovalev's activity level decreased and he began following Ward instead of cutting him off. If you are going to go based on Compubox stats for those two rounds and say the judges were wrong, why not make the argument that judges aren't needed at all and we can just go by what Compubox says to determine fight outcomes- would that make you happier?

Wow there, bro, who said anything about hating on Cotto? I don't hate him, he's a cool fighter. He just always look sad. That wasn't directed to you, more to some of the other dudes that posted to the thread. You can't deny there is a lot of Cotto hate on the forums- I personally feel it's unwarranted

Ward takes care of GGG easily-- wide UD,maybe late round stoppage with the size differential

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/image.php?u=166604&dateline=1299926839 I would love to know where everybody gets off calling Cotto a coward, or a ducker, or a shot fighter. Look at his resume, look at the list of current or former world champions he has faced in his career. Look at the dates that he faced these guys. Your claims do not hold up. All the nonsense that people talk about GGG and Canelo steamrolling over Cotto just proves how little people actually know about boxing. To be honest, I think Canelo would give Cotto a harder time in the ring than GGG. Oh, and to whoever this Red Cyclone clown is, don't pop off if you don't know any facts about Puerto Rico or its boxing history. I am a proud Puerto Rican who is nice with his hands, so if you ever really want to test a Puerto Rican you can come see me.

A lot of fighters I like, but the first that come to mind... Cotto Marquez Corrales Trinidad Barrera Hatton Gatti Hagler Maidana Winky Ward

Something tells me this fight is not going to be as close as everyone thinks it will be.. Ward has too much boxing skill, and always finds a way to adjust the game plan if needed during a fight. He may have to worry about Kovalev's power in the early rounds but once he finds his rhythm I see a clear UD in Ward's favor. Not to mention that Kovalev was frustrated in his fight with Chilemba for long periods of time.. It may have been a bad night for him, but Ward has the ability to do that to Kovalev even when he is at his best

I also heard the finals are just about set but i don't know how true it is.. I wonder if what I heard will pan out but regardless this season is the most talented by far in my opinion... Soliman, Bika, and Codrington are all threats..

My worst prediction ever (which is the only one I've gotten wrong so far) is Lacy to demolish Calzaghe... What the fuck was I thinking?

Judah vs. Galvan ruled a no contest!!!!! Zab Judah's comeback fight against Ruben Galvan was ruled a no contest, apparently due to an accidental elbow by Judah in the first round... There is still some controversy, but as of right now the Cotto-Judah contest is still scheduled to take place.

Mayweather would fight in New York, I reckon, if it could be as profitable as Vegas. I'm not sure it could be though. I think that when Cotto beats Shane, Mayweather will have no choice but to fight him if he gets past Hatton, which I believe he will. And I think that fight would definitely have to be in New York to generate the kind of money that Floyd would want for that fight.. It would be a big draw in Vegas, but nobody sells in New York like Cotto. Cotto and Floyd at the Garden would break the attendance record, no doubt about it.

that should of ben a tko victory for mario santiago i don't know how da fuck they went to da scorecards. I like Giovanni Lorenzo, too... I've seen him in the gym before and he has crazy power... But I think a lot of people have unjustly written off Santana. The kid is gonna go places... He's had a couple of bad breaks but if he gets the opportunity, he's gonna make his mark. I've been waiting for either him or El Gato to lay Salita out for a long time.

I think this year's show should be much better in general because of the fighters and trainers.. I'm going with Codrington as well but I think he's got good competition with guys like Bika and Soliman... Should be interesting.

I think that IF Mosley beats Cotto, it will be by early KO/TKO...The longer the fight goes, the better for Cotto imo... Another hard fight for Cotto...You have to at least give him props for stepping up the comp every fight. Paulie Quintana Zab now Mosley...Next?? DLH? Floyd? Hatton? OK.. Here's the thing.. Everybody brings up Cotto's "weak" chin but the shot from Corley was a temple shot that he did not see coming.. Torres and Judah are both punchers who have the ability to hurt anybody they face. There is no way you can say that Mosley has more power than Torres or Judah. Mosley had power at lightweight... Just like Floyd, his power did not mowve with him as he went up in weight. He may able to catch Cotto with a shot that stops him for a second, but he doesn't have the punch to put Cotto away. His jab isn't nearly what it used to be and he won't be able to keep Cotto at bay all night. Cotto will be more willing to take jab on his way inside to punish Mosley to the body.. Now you tell me who has enough heart to take Cotto's body attack for 12 rounds? Oh and for those of you who think Cotto has no boxing ability, watch his fights against Cesar Bazan and Victoriano Sosa... He even boxed well against Judah as the fight went on. Just because he doesn't box as much anymore doesn't mean he doesn't know how or never couid.. He's just such a beast he doesn't have to box. And he definitely won't need to against Shane.

Is Raul Martinez the cat who fought that Colombian guy on ShoBox when he had a huge cut and begged for one more round, they gave him the round and he knocked the guy out? I like that kid too. One more promising prospect is Mario Santiago.. He's a southpaw trained by Evangelista Cotto and he shows a lot of promise.

http://espncontender.secondthought.com/ http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=2959700 As for spoilers, there were lots of stories out last year too, and they were not accurate. I think it's supposed to start September 4th.. I think Jaidon has a really good shot to win, but he's got some competition this year, too. Sakio Bika and Sam Soliman have both supposedly signed on. Jaidon hasn't fought competition like that since he fought Allan Green. But I think he's learned a lot since the Green fight and he's still hungry to make a name for himself.