... missed a great competetive fight; estrada suprised me; but one thing i can say if Eddie Chambers would have been instead of Estrada Adamek would have been dominated; props to estrada!
i'm a bit disapointted of Adamek :blow:
Id tried to watch both at the same time but my stream for adamek fight was pausing like every 5 to 7 seconds.
I shut down my sopcast stream to see if it would make a difference but it didnt.
so i just watched valero and demarco stream via sopcast. you can always count on sopcast to deliever a stream without buffering.
valero put a whopping on demarco and showed some defense skill by side stepping and ducking demarco shots.
Naw, it won't happen because Valero is the man here and Guzman would demand his fake ass steroid blood testing. Valero would just give the middle finger.
naw! i dont think guzman would pass up a good payday when he is clean. how stupid would that be? if guzman was stupid enough to pass up a payday when he is clean, then i would imagine nacho bernstien is advising him now
Why has no one pointed out that Chavez is a MIDDLEWEIGHT and Valero is a LIGHTWEIGHT. If Chavez had to boil his 6'0 frame down to 140 he'd be DEAD and Valero would stop him within 4 rounds.
There not talking about chavez jr. they are talking about the original jc supertstar.
If you're talking about the Chavez that fought De La hoya then maybe, just MAYBE!
But....if you're talking about the Chavez that fought and whooped the original Mexicutioner Roger Mayweather and El Chapo then HELL NO!
Exactly! Well said
I was really impressed with valero performance last night. he showed defense prowness that i have not seen before but had read about it from doug fisher.
my initial thoughts after last night performance was that the skies the limit for valero but the reality of it is we need to see him in with more top rated fighters.
its sound like bob arum already has enough confidence with valero abilities to match up with bradely.
right now i favor the desert storm simply based on experience and the fact that valero raw talent isn't being molded right now by experience trainer like joe gossen, kenny adams (who he fired), ronnie shields,
valero is really doing himself a disservice if he does not hire a more experience trainer
Suppose it's May 2nd, 2010 and both the biggest fighters in the sport right now have continued their winning streaks. It looks as if we might actually see the big fight everyone wants to see. So now I ask you, if you take both fighters' last four fights, what looks more impressive?
Choose one fight for each pairing...
Example: If you pick Pacquiao's win over Clottey, then don't pick Mosley.
They're compared in the following forms: ODLH/ODLH, Hatton/Hatton, JMM/Cotto, Mosley/Clottey.
its easy to criticise pac for ducking the random blood because there is no logical explanation for not taking the test but what you cant criticise pac for is his comp and how he has performed against them. the only fight i voted for in floyd favor was his upcoming fight with mosley. the rest pac got the nod
It's the same negative shit that comes out of the mouth of every boxing pundit in the world!!!
Stupid promoters, to many champions, to many weight classes, and not enough big fights are some of the things I have heard Dana White say about boxing.
How are any of these any diffrent from the normal list of complaints your typical boxing has about boxing.
its not the same. because the same boxing pundits also say positive things about the sport because they are actual fans of the sport
dana white does not. cant you see dana agenda when he says something that amounts to this;
dana says "boxing is dying sport and nobody watches it and quick side bar mma is awesome"
i repeat finding me one positive comment dana white has said about present day boxing?
dana white only mentions he is a boxing fan because he believes it gives him the right to rip on boxing because if any one ever makes the connection that he is a mma fighting league promoter and has a bias against boxing dana white will pull out his laminated card that reads "I am a Boxing Fan"
dont be so naive. you can still like mma and recognize dana white agenda with his comments in regard to boxing
Most Boxing fans(which dana is by the way)
Dana is such boxing fan then why is it every time he opens his mouth in regards to boxing he always says something negative?
If he is such a boxing fan then why is it that you dont ever hear anything positive from him about boxing?
Were have you been pistol whip?
dana white pull his "i am boxing fan card" when ever he wants to talk shit about it. find me one positive comment that you could quote dana white talking about present day boxing.
I hear your noise about the nba talking shit about any other sport organization (your right it doesnt happen) but most if not all boxing promoters have never mention or utter the word mma or any mma fighting league to promote there boxing event or sport of boxing.
unlike dana white, who makes sure to rip on boxing while promoting his fighting league.
dont get it twisted dana white fighting league is competing with boxing as an mma fan that you are you should know that.
twas also funny when he was showing his scars from his gang fights and then said "yo no juego con muñecas como Oscar"(i dont play with dolls like oscar)
Dam it! You beat me to it. "yo no juego con muñecas como Oscar" Is my favorite mayorga quote.
Look. Let's not avoid the facts:
1) Pac is life and death with HoFer, JMM. In 2 fights Pac lost most of the rounds, but was saved by his explosive power @ 126-130. There is no denying this.
2) JMM was totally outclassed by PBF . There is no denying this.
3) You do the math, dumbasses. Who ducked who?
and yes, I understand that styles make fights...Imo,PBF is bigger,faster,younger more defensive version of JMM.
You wanna' call names...gimme red k...whatever...does not refute my logic.
Wanna' refute my statement? Speak english. Lose the emotion and demonstrate the logical superiority of your position.
Bet you can't...
pac lost both of those fights against marquez but dont kid yourself floyd did not dominate they same Marquez that pac fought.
pac is not afraid of gayweather but for whatever reason he is afraid of random blood test. which is the only reason why the fight is not taking place and pac should be to be blame for this.
anyways i dont give a shit. the worst thing that could happen is floyd fought pac and beat him and that would some how eclipse the fact that he avoided margarito , cotto, and mosley.
pac does not need floyd but there is no sound or logical argument that could be made in pac favor for walking away from a 40 million payday because of random blood test. fact.
There seems to be an overwhelming support for Pac in this whole fiasco.
Lets get it straight .. Im not a big PBF fan (im not from the US) i hate his cockyness and the way he cheated out fans by rejecting $8million dollars to fight the relentless margarito. The way he retired in late 2007 when unbeaten welterweights Miguel Cotto and Paul Williams were coming up.
But he is an american born and bred and yet he gets so much hate from all of use(american) ? Should use not be pro-mayweather in a sense that hes fighting and representing your country, instead of some filipino on the other side of the world?
dont like floyd and have only meet one person in person who is an actual fan of floyds
i still prefer pac over floyd but there is still no logical explanation why an innocent person would avoid random drug test and pass on 40 million dollar fight.
not saying pac is juicing (innocent until proven guilty) but it does not make any sense why he would avoid the random blood test.
with that being said i still look forward to watching pac fights because he is exciting to watch and he is one of the best in boxing
were floyd you watch because he is one of the best in boxing but not because his fights are compelling
And they ALL tell him to go to hell.:loser::loser::loser:
Only fights he's going to be able to get are against bums like Matthew Hatton looking 4 a payday and Paulie "guido" malignaggi.
I blame pac for not taking the random blood test against floyd. there is no logical explanation on why he would avoid them and pass up a huge payday.
but i agree if chicken floyd hopes to actually get pac in the ring with random blood testing. then he will need to get all of his future opponent to do random blood testing.
i doubt the highly rated matt hatton and saul alvarez, will have a problem with that :/
I take and teach karate at 18 so i know what you mean. I know this guy that is Special *in the Special way* and he would come in and do classes and when ever i fought him i never went hard on him at all but he couldn't touch me and he would TRY AND TRY. but then i heard he went to other Karate Dojo's and challenged their instructors and he WON lol Straight G right there.
Damn! that is one badass *special ninja*
but seriously boxing training or any other form of martial arts training will in most cases beat the guy that has none.
if you have ever seen a street fight and you can just see the guy telegraphing to throw that right or left if he is a southpaw. and they are not doing jack shit with there lead hand.
its really easy work if you have any form of boxing or martial art training
shit another thing to add in favor of the boxer is that he has the stamina for fighting situations.
if you are fighting any athelete that does running well of course they have great stamina but chances are they will still tire faster because they do not have to much fighting experience.
being to tense while you are fighting saps the energy out of you quick
In a Street Fight, do you think you would win. I know a lot of you always say "why do you say their bums, when they would kick your ass" or such things like that. But say if you was to fight a OKAY boxer that was a Professional in the streets, do you think you would win or Lose?
I mean i know that i would get whooped by a Pro Boxer in the ring, but out the RING is Different from IN the ring.
anything can happen in the streets.
but if you have been to a boxing gym (or trained in any combat sport) before and fought with someone that hasnt ever trained to fight then you would know that most people would get their ass whopped if they meet an average pro boxer on the street.
when i use to go to the gym regularly, i remember seeing kids come for a couple of months and then stop going.
then hearing about them fighting on the street and winning.
knowing what to do in a fight will likely trump the most anger and enraged individuals out there.
After all the attempts of Floyd and company trying to ruin Pac's obvious legendary career, it never happened. Now it just looks like the usual. Pac facing the best he can possibly fight(which has never changed), taking on Clottey who Fraud would have ducked like the plague, and Fraud looking for the easiest opponent possible. I even heard Steward laugh with that other guy when they mentioned Floyd might be looking to take on Nate Campbell. Muwuahahh, even legendary trainers laugh @ Floyd. I love it. :notworthy
floyd is definitely still a fraud and chicken
not saying pac is juicng or doping but there is still no logical explanation why pac would not take the random blood test and pass up on 40 million dollars
According to Mayweather, Pacquiao is more exciting.
floyd was the goods at 130. floyd looked like what he and his fans claim him to be at 130 but sure does not looked like it now at welter and above
especially in his fights against oscar, baldo, and marquez. I did not see an all time great in those fights.
So i would say floyd was more exciting than the random blood test dodger at 130 but pac (aka the man that passes up on a 40 million payday when he is clean) smokes duckweather (i guess i can call him that now since he is fighting shane) in the excitement department from 135 to 147
Because now he doesnt have to fight a 38 year old. With a 16 Month layoff. Remember all those threads about Shane being old and shot and the layoff. Well if Floyd pulls out you guys should applaud him for not fighting an old fighter. He can just wait for the Pac-Clottey winner right?
:drive:
No!! I rather floyd fight shane because he needs to fight a ranked welter weight (last welter opponent was 2006) before he fights for a mega pay day with the random blood test dodger (pac)
when you are the face of boxing and people like you, not everybody in the media will give you shit for ducking random blood test.
I'm sorry? Floyd was amazing vs Marquez and Baldo. Complete clinics! I give you Oscar he was tentative going up to 154 for the first time and meeting the champion.
Oscar was a paper champ at 154 when floyd fought him. and baldo and Marquez are two fighters he should have tko or forced the issue.
if the floyd that fought at 130 were in the ring and had all the advantages he did against Marquez like he did at welter. he would have demolished Marquez and baldo.
to me those three fight against oscar, baldo, and Marquez are examples of floyd playing it safe and just content on winning a dec.
to each his own. To me those are examples of floyd under performing.
Everybody who really cares about boxing & not just being a hater or a fan of a certain boxer has found it a little disturbing at least that pac would refuse random drug testing that his opponent was even willing to take.
Exactly.
I am not a pac fan but certainly enjoy watching his fights and I am definetly not a floyd fan especially since he chose not to fight cotto, margarito, shane and retire when everybody knew he was gonna come back.
but there is no sound or logical argument for pac avoiding the the random blood test.
This is Roach's angle on Maidana:
So he's not trying to get Khan to duck or vacate, he's just trying to build it into a much a bigger fight by getting both fighters to have a high profile fight in the States first on the same card, and is hoping Maidana will take some step-aside money in return for going along with this strategy.
to me it means
roach know this a difficult style match up for khan (chin?) and would hate to lose all the momentum and progress he has made with khan on one fight with maidana.
so roach would rather have options on future opponents instead of being mandated to face maidana
... would that absolve pacquiao? or we'd hear another flomo rant that goes like this: "the roids/ped/hgh was burned through punching"?
in other news:
"pavlik wants roids test for paul williams, or no go"; calzaghe's girlfriend got botox overdose.
on a more serious note. if pacquaio is dependent on peds (btw, why the f*ck do flomos use ped/hgh/roids interchangeably?) surely that will leave at least a small trace of it in his blood at fight night? as my understanding is that for a drug to have an effect, it needs to be present inside your bloodstream.
non duckweather fan here
newflash!! the issue is not testing before or after the fight but the issue is RANDOM BLOOD TEST for the duration of his training camp
here a link to inform yourself
http://www.doghouseboxing.com/DHB/Kim122509.htm
But if Maidana accepts step-aside money for a guaranteed date against Khan in his next but one fight, and if he's on the undercard of Khan's next fight, which is what Roach is asking for, then it's not a cynical move at all, it's just a sensible way of building the fight up.
If Khan vacates then I'd agree with you and would call him a ducker and a chicken. But if it pans out like Roach is asking for, I don't see the problem, in fact it seems to me to make a lot of sense.
your scenario is based on an IF
bottom line is roach does not want khan to get in the ring with miadana and they are willing to vacate to do it
besides that i am not implying anything else. not implying khan is scared or ducking miadana
The "if" is based on what Roach is asking for in his interview.
Bottom line, you're putting prejudiced speculation ahead of facts. The fact is that Roach said that he does not want Khan to vacate, and he said that he does want Khan to get in the ring with Maidana, directly contradicting the speculation that claims the opposite.
If he vacates in order to avoid Maidana then it will be a clear duck, end of story.
But Roach explicitly says that he does not want Khan to vacate, and he clearly said that he does want Khan to fight Maidana; but he says he wants the fight to be built up first by having them both fight another fighter on the same card in the States first.
I see no reason not to give Roach the benefit of the doubt when he says that, unless and until events proves him to be bullshitting. To assume he's lying at this point is just showing extreme prejudice, IMO.
either way you slice it roach does not want khan in with miadana right now and prefers a match up with a soft hitting but talented malianggi
thats not prejudice but a fact
khan is gonna have to
a) fight miadana
b) give step aside money
c) vacate the title
d) hopes golden boy offers miadana another fight to keep khan out of his radar.
no prejudice just the fact and if that means khan is ducking miadana then i will let you make that call
Roach says he wants Khan to fight Maidana and that although he would prefer the fight to be built up first, he does not want Khan to vacate. That's just a fact. Furthermore, GBP is in talks to make the Khan-Maidana fight happen.
Khan vs. Maidana Deal Announced By The WBA.
I hope all the cynics will give him props now. If they don't then they're just haters.
Roach disagrees with you. He said it's an extremely dangerous fight and that he would rather Khan vacate than to take the fight. That's why Khan left Warren, because Warren would have made the fight.
Glad to see you finally figured khan out
The "if" is based on what Roach is asking for in his interview.
Bottom line, you're putting prejudiced speculation ahead of facts. The fact is that Roach said that he does not want Khan to vacate, and he said that he does want Khan to get in the ring with Maidana, directly contradicting the speculation that claims the opposite.
If he vacates in order to avoid Maidana then it will be a clear duck, end of story.
But Roach explicitly says that he does not want Khan to vacate, and he clearly said that he does want Khan to fight Maidana; but he says he wants the fight to be built up first by having them both fight another fighter on the same card in the States first.
I see no reason not to give Roach the benefit of the doubt when he says that, unless and until events proves him to be bullshitting. To assume he's lying at this point is just showing extreme prejudice, IMO.
either way you slice it roach does not want khan in with miadana right now and prefers a match up with a soft hitting but talented malianggi
thats not prejudice but a fact
khan is gonna have to
a) fight miadana
b) give step aside money
c) vacate the title
d) hopes golden boy offers miadana another fight to keep khan out of his radar.
no prejudice just the fact and if that means khan is ducking miadana then i will let you make that call
This is not a troll thread but a real thread because this has stuck in my head and I wonder even what the Pac fans say about it. That is something that no one has ever really talked about on here. Weve made a ton of threads & post about Arum and stuff like that but the last stuff that came out before the fight was called off was almost like they were throwing Pac under the bus. Did anyone else feel that way?
People were talking about the 2 weeks and even Pac fans said that seemed fair. Then it came out that they offered them that way back on the 1st of January. Everyone took it as the team didnt want that date or Arum, or Koncz or whoever but then the media started asking them and Koncz waz like, "I took the 2 week thing to Pac and he said NO and that was it".
No one has talked about that. To me the way he said it was like he was throwing Pac under the bus. Like the team wouldve went with it if Pac said yes but he didnt and the way he said it made it seem like Pac didnt just say NO but he said it emphatically like dont ask me about the shit anymore. Then a few days later Arum basically said the same exact thing about Pac saying NO after 1st he was acting like he himself didnt want it. He then tried to play it off by saying stuff like, he's glad Pac is standing up to the Mayweathers.
Seriously though, I dont mean this as a troll or anything but is anyone else shocked that Pac was basically the one who called it off? The others made it clear that they took the fight to Pac and it was up to him and he basically acted like he didnt want anything to do with it. This is the same guy who everyone the whole time was saying that he was cool with the testing but just not the day of the fight, then it was 2 days before the fight. Now they came with a 2 week offer and he not only turned it down but they made it sound like he was saying "Hell NO"! That was just super strange to me because I kinda expected that from Arum & stuff but not Pac and no one in the media has even talked about it, that he was the final person to say NO and did it emphatically.
Are Pac fans ok with this, even after saying 2 weeks seemed fair? Are you shocked that Pac was the guy who said NO? Dont get me wrong, its definitely not all on Pac as both sides have blame but it just shocked me some that it happened that way at the end
to be honest it does not make any sense why pac would say no. even before the 2 week offer was made. I did not get and still do not understand pac beef with random blood testing.
but regardless i still look forward to watching pac's fights because they are compelling and exciting
If Maidana is offered step-aside money to fight Khan in his next-but-one fight and to fight on Khan's undercard in his next fight to build Khan-Maidana up into a much bigger fight than it would be now, and if he doesn't vacate, then what you say is simply wrong, end of story.
Don't forget that Maidana and Khan are both co-promoted by GBP now. It's in GBP's interests to build this into a big fight; and what Roach says about Maidana not yet being a big name in the States is true.
It's too early to make any judgements until it plays out. Anyone making definite judgements now is just showing that they are prejudiced.
your scenario is based on an IF
bottom line is roach does not want khan to get in the ring with miadana and they are willing to vacate to do it
besides that i am not implying anything else. not implying khan is scared or ducking miadana
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Shane Mosley
3. Floyd Mayweather
4. Miguel Cotto
5. Joshua Clottey
to be fair floyd should not be rank in the top 3 of the division because he has not fought someone ranked in the top ten at welter since late 2006
i have no problem with floyd being ranked highly in the p4p mythical ranking because p4p ranking for the most part are based on hypothetical scenarios.
in some cases p4p can be measured hence why many want to see floyd vs pac (too bad pac is not a fan of random blood test)
divisional rankings should be based on performance against fighters in that very division.
which floyd has not done since late 2006
but of course floyd is still recognize as one of the best if not the best in the sport so he will more than likely get kissed in to the top of the division of most peoples rankings
Interesting topic.
Its weird how the Pac fans forget that MAB had ALOT of wear and tear on him.
yea, so much that he won another title at a higher weight...and speaking of wear and tear, like Chavez and his 90 something fights was still fresh :rolleyes:
damn it you beat me to it. chavez was definetly a lot longer in the tooth compared to marco and Erik when pac beat them
is it pretty obvious that chavez was well past it when he fought oscar and marco was still in his prime when pac beat him down the first time
marco definelty did have distractions going into the first fight but the outcome was wouldnt have changed anyways. pac beat him easily in the rematch
pac style is just all wrong for marco
what obvious differences set them apart as fighters? forget about all the outside of the ring crap. theyre quite similar i think , im such a huge fan of Pernell and was just watchin the De La Hoya fight and i see floyd in sweet pea . what has Whitaker got that Floyd hasnt and vice versa?? ( be honest )
southpaw is the first difference
and like someone else said balls
just compare whitaker performance against Julio Cesar Vasquez a better version of baldo in every department with floyd fight with baldo
whitaker defense is top notch. he could move and make you miss or he stand right in front of you and make you miss
and he didnt rely on the elbow forearm push off that floyd does when someone gets on the inside with him
and he didnt resort to holding like andre ward and dirrell when someone closed distance on him either.
FACTS
Mosley vs Cotto: 116-113, 115-113 twice, all in favor of Miguel (UD)
Oscar vs Floyd: 115-113 for DLH; 116-112 & 115-113 for Duck (SD)
Officals dont always get it right every time
in my opinion they did not get it right when floyd first fought castillo or when sweet pea fought chavez
and all these people believe the officials did not get the Marquez vs pac II fight right either
- Associated Press:114-113 Marquez
- Joe Santoliquito:115-112 Marquez
- Dan Rafael, ESPN.com: 114-113 Marquez
- Darius Ortiz, ESPN.com:114-113 Marquez
- Eric Raskin, ESPN.com:114-113 Marquez
- Brian Kenny, Friday Night Fights:115-112 Marquez
- Scott Mallon, Ring Magazine / Boxing News / The Fist / Boxing Digest:114-113 Marquez
- Yahoo Sports:115-112 Marquez
- Fight News.com:115-112 Marquez
- Steve Carp, Las Vegas Review Journal: 114-113 Marquez
- Norm Fraunheim, Arizona Republic:114-113 Marquez
- Rich Marrotta, Top Rank TV:114-113 Marquez
- Kieran Mulvaney, Reuters:114-113 Marquez
- DogHouseBoxing:114-113 Marquez
- Brett Conway, MaxBoxing.com:114-113 Marquez
- Rick Reeno, BoxingScene.com:114-113 Marquez
- Gary Randall, MaxBoxing.com:114-113 Marquez
- Bart Barry, 15Rounds.com:115-113 Marquez
- Bruce McTavish, International Judge:115-112 Marquez
- Francis Ochoa, Philippine Daily Inquirer:114-113 Marquez
- Scott Christ, BadLeftHook.com:114-113 Marquez
- William Detloff, The Ring Magazine:115-113 Marquez
- Ron Borges, TheSweetScience.com:114-113 Marquez
- Bert Sugar:Marquez
- Max Kellerman & Bob Papa:Marquez in both fights
- Nonito Donaire:114-113 Marquez
- Filipino Sports Analysts Ronnie Nathanielsz, Recah Trinidad and Ed Picson all picked Marquez.
if you watch both cotto vs shane and oscar vs floyd and you know how to score a fight then its obvious that
the cotto vs shane fight was closer and competitive while floyd uneventful fight with oscar was not close at all.
Something I have never seen before but I see alot of people today saying JMM should have taken the Khan fight, or that JMM ducked a JR. Welterweight. Alot of these same people I remember shitting on floyds win by saying "he beat a blown up featherweight." This shows that when the Floyd hate is in the back of their heads, they really think of JMM as a JR Welterweight but Floyd is soo good and made it look easy so they find a reason to hate. I took down names of who is upset at JMM, and next time I hear you say some stupid shit about Floyds win, I will correct you...."Floyd beat a blown up JR Welterweight."
Yea that is still a weight class below but dont tell me you ****ing pactards wouldnt be all over Pacs nuts if he beat Timothy Bradley or Edwin Valero at welterweight.
i dont think of Marquez as a jr welterweight but a small lightweight. Marquez hasn't even had a fight at 140 so please explain how he is a "blown up JR Welterweight"?
pactards of course will make a big fuss over their hero "the random blood test dodger" beating anyone just like flomos insist that floyds wins over oscar, baldo, and Marquez were impressive