What makes Hagler greater than De La Hoya??

[Mr.Fantastic]

Hagler beat Minter (#3 160), Obelmejias (Top 5 160), Antuofermo (Top 3 160, also deserved the W when he was the 160 #1 in 1980), Hamsho (Top 10 160), Sibson (#2 160), Scypion (Top 10 160), Duran (thoughe was moving up), Roldan (Top 5 160), Hearns (#1 160), and Mugabi (#1 160). He also had the razor sharp close fight with Leonard.

Hagler dominated Middleweight for like 8 years or so, and packed in several wins over either the top guy, Top 5 Guys, or Top 10 guys. He won his big fight with Hearns and went to Wembley to beat Minter.

Oscar beat Bredhal (Top 10 130), Molina (Top 10 135), Ruelas (#2 135), Genaro, Chavez (#3 140), Gonzalez (Top 5 140), Whitaker (#1 147, though many thought he didn't win), Charpentier (Top 10 147), Quartey (#3 147), Carr (Top 10 147), Gatti, Vargas (#2 154), and Sturm (once again he really should have lost).

Granted Oscar had close calls with Trinidad and Mosley, but they weren't robberies or anything, so he doesn't really get credit for them as wins.

I think Hagler and Oscar both have many solid good wins, but it's Haglers dominance of Middleweight and his massive win over Hearns that cement his ATG status. Oscar on the other hand never really dominated any weight class at all like Halger did 160, and lost most all of his biggest fights.

How the hell was Hearns #1 at MW when Hagler fought him?

And that MW dominance was good in it's own right. Don't forget Oscar's accomplishment in several divisions. 10 time world champion in 6 SIX divisions. Did he deserve to lose the Sturm fight? Yea, but he also deserved some wins with Mosley/Trinidad(lol @ close call) but that's a different discussion.

Beating the top guys throughout several divisions has it's own greatness just like dominating a certain division. Both are not easy tasks.

Whitaker was number three according to Ring magazine behind Oscar at number 2. Oscar was also favored to win the fight.

At early in his career too. I don't remember Oscar being above Whitaker till after the fight on the P4P list.

[IronDanHamza]

Then Bradley shouldn't get credit for beating Marquez? Marquez has been on the decline.
If someone beats Sergio Martinez who's been on the decline, they shouldn't get credit?
What if Bradley beats Pac? Pac is on the decline, specially after being knocked out.

Martinez, Pacquiao as well as Marquez are in the P4P list.

Why can someone beat them and get credit but not Oscar for beating Whitaker? That's just dumb!

How many times am I going to have to ask the same question?

Where have I said that Oscar doesn't get credit for Whitaker? Quote me saying that.

I'm saying the Vargas win is better.

By that Logic, Marquez is greater than Hopkins. Since Marquez's KO of Pacquiao is better than anything Hopkins has done. Right?

Are you purposing making things up? I don't understand.

Where have I said that Hagler beating Hearns is better than anything Oscar has done thus he's greater? Quote that.

Where have I even said Hagler beating Hearns is better than anything Oscar has done even? I mean, that is true. But I haven't even said that.

You said, that Oscar's wins over Chavez and Whitaker are better quality than the Hearns win. I replied with a "No they aren't" in so many words, because they aren't.

Where in that line of posting does anything say or imply "The Hearns win is better than anything Oscar did thus Hagler is greater than Oscar"?

I was replying to a statement that you made.

It's not rocket science here.

lol yea it baffles me, beating the P4P guy in less than 25/26 fights isn't credible. It pisses me off Oscar doesn't get the credit he fucking deserves.

Again, quote where I said or implied that that win isn't credible.

I said names without putting the situation at hand. Like Prime, Weight, etc.

Ok. But why?

Pretty meaningless line of thinking isn't it?

And again, beating the P4P #1/2 guy isn't quality? Jesus this place.


You boxing fans should REALLLLYYYYY put a certain table of standards for greatness.

Right, this is the third time I've replied to the same thing in your single post.

So basically the majority of your post is to reply to something I've not even said nor implied.

[The Gambler1981]

i agree with you on hagler's resume, but that version of ray leonard that beat hagler wouldnt have beat floyd,manny, or the mosley from the first oscar fight

Perhaps, Leonard had a good plan for that fight so you could be right.

I think those would be interesting fights, and he would have to do different stuff than he did in the Hagler fight to win.

[Holywarrior]

Did De La Hoya run through Lightweight in the 90's though??? No he beat like two guys in the Top 10 there, but Ruelas was a good win for sure.

Oscar never dominated a weight class the way Hagler did 160, and Hagler won his biggest fights minus the Leonard fight. Hearns was better then every single Oscar win, and they both have around the same number of quality/decent/solid wins.

You obviously missed the point

Hagler won his biggest fights because he had like 3 of them.

[IronDanHamza]

Did De La Hoya run through Lightweight in the 90's though??? No he beat like two guys in the Top 10 there, but Ruelas was a good win for sure.

Oscar never dominated a weight class the way Hagler did 160, and Hagler won his biggest fights minus the Leonard fight. Hearns was better then every single Oscar win, and they both have around the same number of quality/decent/solid wins.

No they don't.

[joseph5620]

Show me a source because when that fight was signed I coulda swore Pea was #2.

Well, you're wrong.

http://www.theboxinghistorian.com/ring-magazine-awards/pound-for-pound-history

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Th...r_Pound--1990s


1996
Roy Jones Jr.
Oscar De La Hoya
Pernell Whitaker
Felix Trinidad
Ricardo Lopez
Junior Jones
Kostya Tszyu
Terry Norris
Evander Holyfield
Mark Johnson

1997
Oscar De La Hoya
Roy Jones Jr.
Felix Trinidad
Pernell Whitaker
Evander Holyfield
Terry Norris
Junior Jones
Ricardo Lopez
Ike Quartey
Mark Johnson

[Holywarrior]

Yeah it was hilarious how it went down.

Kid was talking crap all week on how he was gonna take my money lol To see the look on his face when they announced the winner was priceless

It's telling that the posters in here actually hold the Mosley fights against Delahoya when he was clearly cheating against Delahoya.

I bet this 4corners fella would be screaming bloody murder if that was Mayweather taking those tainted losses.

[dynomyte1444]

nostalgia easily

hagler would be above de la hoya because of resume and being the best at his division but not to far ahead.

Thats just like that thread the other day about frazier being better then wlad when resume and skill would clearly put wlad well above frazier

Floyd is clearly better than alot of old people but you wont see no one onhere admit it.

[4Corners]

How the hell was Hearns #1 at MW when Hagler fought him?

And that MW dominance was good in it's own right. Don't forget Oscar's accomplishment in several divisions. 10 time world champion in 6 SIX divisions. Did he deserve to lose the Sturm fight? Yea, but he also deserved some wins with Mosley/Trinidad(lol @ close call) but that's a different discussion.

Beating the top guys throughout several divisions has it's own greatness just like dominating a certain division. Both are not easy tasks.





At early in his career too. I don't remember Oscar being above Whitaker till after the fight on the P4P list.

The best guy at 130 when Oscar won his title there was Nelson or Genaro. He beat Genaro later on, but at 135. Still a solid win though.

The best guy at 135 when Oscar was there was Gonzalez, which he got later on at 140. Decent win. The other top guy there was Ruelas, which he beat. Good win.

The best guy at 140 was Tszyu until he lost to Phillips. Oscar beat neither. Though Chavez was still at least a decent win at the time.

The best guys at 147 were Whitaker and Trinidad. Trinidad was close, but he lost. And Whitaker he won, but he arguably lost as well.

The best guys at 154 were Vargas, Mosley, and Wright. He and Wright never fought, but he did beat Vargas, and deserved the 2nd Mosley fight.

The best at 160 was Hopkins and he lost.

So out of those 6 divisions he only beat the top guy or one of them in 3 of them, and he arguably lost to Whitaker. So half of his weight classes he didn't beat the top guy or one of the top ones.

Hagler beat the Top guy at 160 or one of them several different times.

[Holywarrior]

Well, you're wrong.

http://www.theboxinghistorian.com/ring-magazine-awards/pound-for-pound-history

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Th...r_Pound--1990s


1997
Roy Jones Jr.
Oscar De La Hoya
Pernell Whitaker
Felix Trinidad
Ricardo Lopez
Junior Jones
Kostya Tszyu
Terry Norris
Evander Holyfield
Mark Johnson

1996
Oscar De La Hoya
Roy Jones Jr.
Felix Trinidad
Pernell Whitaker
Evander Holyfield
Terry Norris
Junior Jones
Ricardo Lopez
Ike Quartey
Mark Johnson

Sorry I was off by one spot

How many P4P'ers did Hagler ever move up and beat? :boobies: