Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Out of the guys you mentioned Benitez, Napoles and Pep, all 3 of those have insane talent and rely on talent aswell.

You think if Benitez didn't have the relfexes and ability he'd be able to do what he did? Same as Pep.

I don't understand why Roy Jones is put aside as a guy without skills just because he had insane talent and ability to go with it.

When he slows down he struggled obviously because that was a big part of his success but that doesn't mean he isn't skilled.

Now do you see that your logic is flawed.

What does technical skill even mean? He beat every opponent with skill.

Ok, i guess it depends on your definition of skills,,, I'm just basing mine in fundamentals and the basics, much more orthodox approach to boxing as opposed to natural talent and unorthodox approach..

I just think Roy's lack of fundamentals at the top level hurt him once he slid, whereas other guys similar to him in terms of success, were able to perform better once athletic abilities have slipped

[Big_L]

Saying that Roy was all athletism and no skill is beyond ******. Roy threw some of the most wicked and precise combination punches ever seen. He loved in-fighting with his back against the ropes. He beat Ruiz almost strictly using his jab. Roy was very skilled and intelligent.

[BoxingGenius27]

Haha, no I agree with you.

We had our own SMW tournament-esque stuff going on over here. We had a lot of good SMW's in that time but it was more of a domestic dust up.

Benn and Collins went over and fought some USA guys like Barkley, McCallum, McClellan etc but those fighters and Roy were never really on each others radar.

The only time a fight with Roy could have possibly been made and made sense was when Benn beat McClellan, maybe. But even then, not so much.

Collins talks about how Roy was ducking him in the late 90's but that's straight bull****, frankly.

I remember it as it played out. For us here in the states, during that time, the only time we got boxing updates were on ESPN the next morning of a big fight, newspaper, or HBO immediately following a fight. There was no internet or boxing forums. I faithfully followed RJJ and some of this stuff Sugar Adam Ali is talking about simply didn't exist, wasn't possible, or never seriously mentioned as being reasonable.

As you said the Benn fight was "possible" after the McClellan fight, but even then not so much

[IronDanHamza]

Ok, i guess it depends on your definition of skills,,, I'm just basing mine in fundamentals and the basics, much more orthodox approach to boxing as opposed to natural talent and unorthodox approach..

I just think Roy's lack of fundamentals at the top level hurt him once he slid, whereas other guys similar to him in terms of success, were able to perform better once athletic abilities have slipped

So how can you list Benitez as one of the most skilled if that's your definition?

I don't understand why skills are only fundementals, why is that?

Roy's lack of fundementals did hurt him when he slipped, just like it did Ali, just like it did Willie Pep, just like it did Ray Robinson even.

But why does that mean he wasn't skilled?

[RubenSonny]

Ok, i guess it depends on your definition of skills,,, I'm just basing mine in fundamentals and the basics, much more orthodox approach to boxing as opposed to natural talent and unorthodox approach..

What are fundamentals exactly? Most of the guys you mentioned fight very differently. Why is an unorthodox approach any less skillful than an orthodox approach?

I just think Roy's lack of fundamentals at the top level hurt him once he slid, whereas other guys similar to him in terms of success, were able to perform better once athletic abilities have slipped

Okay so explain Benitez?

[IronDanHamza]

I remember it as it played out. For us here in the states, during that time, the only time we got boxing updates were on ESPN the next morning of a big fight, newspaper, or HBO immediately following a fight. There was no internet or boxing forums. I faithfully followed RJJ and some of this stuff Sugar Adam Ali is talking about simply didn't exist, wasn't possible, or never seriously mentioned as being reasonable.

As you said the Benn fight was "possible" after the McClellan fight, but even then not so much

We missed out on a lot of US stuff that time so we were kind of in the same boat. Although I'd think we got more US stuff than you did in UK stuff.

But when I was growing up and stuff I relied on Magazines and Papers for updates and didn't get actual footage of some fights until many years later. Kids today don't realise how lucky they are with the access to fights.

And as for Benn, he beat McClellean in 1995 and lost his belt to Malinga in 1996. A guy that Roy Jones knocked out in 1993 funnily enough.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I can't remember if they were champs or not during the times you're talking, but I do know there was no public outcry for these fights you talk about.

Your other problem is you're mentioning a lot of the UK champs. No disrespect to IronDan and my other UK buds on here, but they were the K-9 Bundrages of their division and boxing. The US was the gold standard. Was Roy supposed to go to the UK or something? Heck no.

K-9 was a champ, but that didn't mean he should've fought Floyd Mayweather in some unification fight.

Benn, Eubanks, Watson and Collins were way better than k9,,, and forget foreign fighters,, why didn't Roy fight McClellan or mccallum when they were champs at 160 or nunn and liles at 168
Foreign or domestic Roy wasn't looking for big fights after he got his hbo contract

I guess Benitez wasn't skilled since he couldn't do anything past his mid 20s, not even as skilled as unskilled Roy who at least managed to keep it together up to his 30s.

Benetiz also was winning world titles at an age when Roy was getting dropped by g-man and liles with headgear and big gloves... Let Roy fight the guys that Benitez fought and see how young he was when goes shot... Plus benetiz wasn't right mentally and didn't train or take it serious after he made some money...nth at will always cause a quick downfall... Roy always was very professional

Saying that Roy was all athletism and no skill is beyond ******. Roy threw some of the most wicked and precise combination punches ever seen. He loved in-fighting with his back against the ropes. He beat Ruiz almost strictly using his jab. Roy was very skilled and intelligent.

Can you please show the quote where some one says Roy has no skills... Roy threw wicked combos vs Frazier and Byrd, etc... The top 3 guys he fought he never threw any highlight reel vicious combos.. Roy vs anyone good equals 12 round decision every time... Name the top wins that ended in ko...

[Earl-Hickey]

rofl............no

[Big_L]

Can you please show the quote where some one says Roy has no skills... Roy threw wicked combos vs Frazier and Byrd, etc... The top 3 guys he fought he never threw any highlight reel vicious combos.. Roy vs anyone good equals 12 round decision every time... Name the top wins that ended in ko...

so if it's not a KO it don't count?

he did take out griffin and hill in brutal fashion.

[IronDanHamza]

Benetiz also was winning world titles at an age when Roy was getting dropped by g-man and liles with headgear and big gloves... Let Roy fight the guys that Benitez fought and see how young he was when goes shot... Plus benetiz wasn't right mentally and didn't train or take it serious after he made some money...nth at will always cause a quick downfall... Roy always was very professional

Your contradiction still stands though.

How can Benitez be one of the most skilled when he relied on talent aswell?

And when he started slipping, he stopped performing.