Is Roy Jones in the top 20 all time great?

[!! Shawn]

I don't know.

I think Roy Jones is definitely one of the most skilled fighters of all time.

Yeah he's obviously unbelievably talented and gifted but he also extremely skilled.

He is very skilled, but I don't think you can compare his skill set with a scientist like Hopkins or Whitaker.

Intelligence yes, but dimensions to his craft, no. But skill is a bit of a subjective term.

If we are talking about skill as the ability to confuse you, and take away your tools, Roy is one of the best, which is what I would be more apt to consider it.

But most people seem to be speaking of skill as the ability to execute a fundamentally sound game plan that doesn't rely on physical abilities.

Which gives you a sense of how good Roy was, because its basically creating a category that handicaps Roy for his athleticism.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

They aren't in the same conversation. Roy would have humiliated him. Spinks was a solid fighter who ground out workmanlike decisions over other great workmen.

He wasn't even as skilled as Roy is. He wasn't fundamentally sound, and lucky enough to exist in an era of stand in front of you fighters.

He wasn't particularly quick, he didn't have good feet, didn't have particularly good balance, he wasn't particularly slick, and his resume isn't nearly as mythical as people make it out to be.

It is very good, but most of his mythology is built around his Holmes wins.

He would have absolutely zero chance against Roy. He just isn't quick enough with his hands or his feet.

Also, Spinks doesn't even belong in the discussion of greatest light heavys ever in my opinion, especially when you have guys like Archie Moore and Billy Conn who campaigned there.

Dude u seriously have a horrible view on spinks, spinks would be hell for Roy.. Best night vs best night,, Roy would be out pointing spinks til he got stopped by the spinks jinx... Think tarver times 1000,, awkward lefty with huge power and Olympic gold pedigree

That is exactly the argument. On his best night, Roy Jones is untouchable.

So Is every fighter on their best night... That is just fanboy crap.. What was Roy's best night? How can u even determine that.. Roy on his best night would get hunted down by hagler on his best night,, or Tyson on his best night, or Armstrong on his best night, manny on his best night
You have watched all of Roy's highlight tapes on YouTube and seen him look like a million bucks vs c,b level opponents, and one big win over toney,,that's not enough to be top 20 atg or the goat,,, Highlight reels don't win u fights or accolades, or gamboa, wilder, ggg, would be p4p elites

[!! Shawn]

Dude u seriously have a horrible view on spinks, spinks would be hell for Roy.. Best night vs best night,, Roy would be out pointing spinks til he got stopped by the spinks jinx... Think tarver times 1000,, awkward lefty with huge power and Olympic gold pedigree


So Is every fighter on their best night... That is just fanboy crap.. What was Roy's best night? How can u even determine that.. Roy on his best night would get hunted down by hagler on his best night,, or Tyson on his best night, or Armstrong on his best night, manny on his best night
You have watched all of Roy's highlight tapes on YouTube and seen him look like a million bucks vs c,b level opponents, and one big win over toney,,that's not enough to be top 20 atg or the goat,,, Highlight reels don't win u fights or accolades, or gamboa, wilder, ggg, would be p4p elites

Except Michael Spinks isn't a southpaw... **** man, if you are going to debate the merits of a fighter, atleast take the time to watch one of his fights.

So you just said:

Michael Spinks is a southpaw.
Pacquiao on his best night is better than Roy Jones Jr.
Tyson is better than Roy Jones Jr.

I have already provided links to Roy vs Hopkins and Roy vs Toney. Roy looked A+ vs other A+ fighters.

[BoxingGenius27]

@ Sugar Adam Ali

How can you say RJJ missed all his big fights against guys like Eubanks, Collins, Nunn, Benn etc, but talk crap about the guys that Roy fought that beat those guys you talk about?

If Roy only beat C class fighters, then what are Eubanks, Collins, Nunn?

It sounds like you would give more credit to Roy for beating Michael Nunn then you do for actually beating James Toney which is completely absurd.

Lastly, all these European fighters you talk about were considered jokes in the 90's. No offense to my British friends on here, but the U.S was the gold standard until the likes of Lennox Lewis, K2 bros, ect in the early 2000's.

The fights you're talking about against Eubanks wasn't really requested the U.S boxing public like the guys that RJJ actually fought. There was no reward for beating a Euro guy back then; no incentive.

[BoxingGenius27]

I remember Sugar Adam Ali saying Roy should've fought Frankie Lyles. But my thing is this, if Roy doesn't get credit from you for beating Toney, Hopkins, McCallum, Johnson, and he barely got credit for beating Virgil Hill, then how can you possibly give him credit for beating Frankie Lyles?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

@ Sugar Adam Ali

How can you say RJJ missed all his big fights against guys like Eubanks, Collins, Nunn, etc, but talk crap about the guys that Roy fought that beat those guys you talk about?

If Roy only beat C class fighters, then what are Eubanks, Collins, Nunn?

It sounds like you would give more credit to Roy for beating Michael Nunn then you do for actually beating James Toney which is completely absurd.

Lastly, all these European fighters you talk about were considered jokes in the 90's. No offense to my British friends on here, but the U.S was the gold standard until the likes of Lennox Lewis, K2 bros, ect in the early 2000's.

The fights you're talking about against Eubanks wasn't really requested the U.S boxing public like the guys that RJJ actually fought. There was no reward for beating a Euro guy back then; no incentive.

What fighters are u talking about,,, when did they best these guys,,, all champs fall one day and get old,,, Hopkins beat tarver who beat Roy, so Hopkins should beat Roy,, but that's not the case..
Your using triangle theories lmao

Name thes guys that were better than the guys I named and brought big PPv caliber events,
I truly want to know who was better than Collins, Eubanks, benn, nunn, liles, g-man, michlewski.... Please tell me who these mythical fighters are that Roy fought that we're better than those guys

[RubenSonny]

A lot of talk the last few pages about Roy's skills...

I don't rate his skills that high, his natural ability carried him, and his ring IQ

If Roy had great skills he would have lasted longer and easily made work of guys like target and johnson...
Hopkins and Floyd's athletic ability has been on declined for many years and can adapt and overcome based on skills
Roy was so unorthodox and athletic that once it faded he got owned by tarver twice and life and death once, and old Hopkins turned tarver into a sparring partner...

And I don't wanna hear about Roy and coming back from heavy and weight etc,, the same guys claim toney being out of shape is no big deal

That's ****** logic, I'd like you to list the the guys you consider the most skilled fighters.

[BoxingGenius27]

What fighters are u talking about,,, when did they best these guys,,, all champs fall one day and get old,,, Hopkins beat tarver who beat Roy, so Hopkins should beat Roy,, but that's not the case..
Your using triangle theories lmao

Name thes guys that were better than the guys I named and brought big PPv caliber events,
I truly want to know who was better than Collins, Eubanks, benn, nunn, liles, g-man, michlewski.... Please tell me who these mythical fighters are that Roy fought that we're better than those guys

I'm not using triangle theories. I'm simply saying, if Roy's victories didn't impress you, then how would winning over lesser tiered fighters somehow get the job done in your eyes?

Reggie Johnson and McCallum had already beat Collins before fighting Roy but somehow if Roy piggy backed on they're back and also beat Collins you would give Roy more props?

Heck no, you would just find someone else to use to discredit Roy.

No triangle theories here, that's the point i was making

Also, was Roy supposed to go to the UK to fight these guys? I hate to say it, but UK fighters were considered jokes in the 90's. Of course they're not the same today, but that's just how it was.

James Toney, Hopkins, McCallum, Johnson, ect weren't good enough in your eyes, but Collins, Nunn, Liles and Eubank somehow are when they were rated below the guys RJJ actually beat.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I remember Sugar Adam Ali saying Roy should've fought Frankie Lyles. But my thing is this, if Roy doesn't get credit from you for beating Toney, Hopkins, McCallum, Johnson, and he barely got credit for beating Virgil Hill, then how can you possibly give him credit for beating Frankie Lyles?

You can't read at all.. I have never said the toney win or Hopkins win was a bad win.... Johnson is a nice win, mccallum is a joke,, beating a 42 yr old jr middle at 175 in your prime is a pathetic win....

We are talking about top 20 atg, and Roy got one fight, the toney fight,, Hopkins looks good later on, but at the time it meant very little and took years before it became a great win....

Virgil hill was old and had gotten beaten up 2 years before by michlewski,

Liles was an amateur nemesis of Roy and was a champ at 168, and a much better fight than say Paz, Byrd, Brannon, etc

[BoxingGenius27]

You can't read at all.. I have never said the toney win or Hopkins win was a bad win.... Johnson is a nice win, mccallum is a joke,, beating a 42 yr old jr middle at 175 in your prime is a pathetic win....

We are talking about top 20 atg, and Roy got one fight, the toney fight,, Hopkins looks good later on, but at the time it meant very little and took years before it became a great win....

Virgil hill was old and had gotten beaten up 2 years before by michlewski,

Liles was an amateur nemesis of Roy and was a champ at 168, and a much better fight than say Paz, Byrd, Brannon, etc

I thought you said Toney was over weight or something like that. But you were sure to throw in the part "I don't take anything from RJJ because it wasn't his fault", but you were taking something away from his win.

McCallum fight wasn't a joke.

Again, the guys you're saying RJJ "should've" fought were lesser tiered fighters then who he actually beat, but somehow they would've gotten the job done in your eyes and made RJJ's legacy better? I mean come on, you said Michael Nunn who was done after the Toney fight...

You say McCallum was a joke, and Hill was old but the Nunn fight would've been legit?